Confirmed with Link: [TOR/PIT] RW Kapanen, D Lindgren, LW Aberg for '20 1st(15th), LW Rodrigues, C Hallander, D Warsofsky

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ToneDog

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Jun 11, 2017
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Lmao, what are you even talking about? Maybe try going off the quality of the prospect we received, and not your random, arbitrary guesses at what they were doing. Amirov is a great prospect.

I prefer Kerfoot to Kapanen in the top-6.

The cap was going to go up to 100m pretty fast if it wasn't for Covid. It would have jumped to ~85m this year.

Go back and watch Mitch make the pick. $100m fast without COVID, sure but it might have taken 5-10 years. Anyway I said I keep Kappy if there is no cap and the trade was good for Dubas.

Kerfoot over Kappy for you. Who could have guessed ?
 

Critical13

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Feb 25, 2017
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The grass really is greener on the other side for many of you.

As soon as we trade a player, you cease to the see all of their flaws. Kapanen was invisible on a regular basis for us, and had finishing rivaled only by Mikheyev. Kap was subpar defensively 5v5 and was soft was butter outside a 10 game period last year when he was getting into fights and throwing his weight.

I like the guy and I hope he carves out a nice career in Pitt but I will take the cap space, Hallander and Amirov every single day of the week.
 

sxvnert

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For the love of god put six months inactive expiry dates on threads. :mad:
 

Dekes For Days

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Go back and watch Mitch make the pick.
Yes, I watched that whole draft. There's no evidence of what you claim. GMs are always talking, and this was a very unique draft with everybody seperated. You don't know that they wanted to trade, and even if they did, you have no idea what that trade would have been for. For all you know, it could have been to pick the exact same prospect a pick or two later, if some other team had a particular target other than Amirov. You're ignoring the actual quality of the prospect, and suggesting he's somehow lesser solely because of your arbitrary interpretation of a pretty normal occurrence. That's ridiculous.
$100m fast without COVID, sure but it might have taken 5-10 years.
Maybe 5; no way it would have taken 10 years. There were new revenue sources, a new team, and a new TV deal incoming.
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
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Yes, I watched that whole draft. There's no evidence of what you claim. GMs are always talking, and this was a very unique draft with everybody seperated. You don't know that they wanted to trade, and even if they did, you have no idea what that trade would have been for. For all you know, it could have been to pick the exact same prospect a pick or two later, if some other team had a particular target other than Amirov. You're ignoring the actual quality of the prospect, and suggesting he's somehow lesser solely because of your arbitrary interpretation of a pretty normal occurrence. That's ridiculous.

Maybe 5; no way it would have taken 10 years. There were new revenue sources, a new team, and a new TV deal incoming.

Of couse I do not know why Mitch was not sure whether they wanted him to pick Amirov or not. My guess is that they wanted to trade down they same way Dubas has numerous times but they could not get it done in time. Did not say I did not like the pick. Perhaps Dubas thought he could get him lower and gain a pick ??
 

Dekes For Days

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No beef, just don't like to spend raises that I don't have.
Nobody was signed based on a 100m cap, but literally every negotiation in the history of the cap era (until this past summer) was done with the understanding of a rising cap, and the cap was on its way up pretty fast prior to a once in a century pandemic.
 

Dekes For Days

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Did not say I did not like the pick.
You stated that the thing that would solidify you not making the trade was your personal, arbitrary interpretation of normal, momentary confusion in a draft set-up that has never been done before, by somebody who has never made a selection in even a normal draft. You represented it as a hesitation by the Leafs in taking Amirov, and that's not true at all.

In fact, reports after the draft said that internally, there wasn't really a debate as to who they would select in that spot. He was their target.
 
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Fogelhund

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People obsessed with every move, this franchise has ever made, forever and a day. Remember that time we made a bad trade on October 2nd, 1956? That's why we haven't won a cup since!!!!

upload_2021-3-8_10-43-59.jpeg
 

hamzarocks

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People obsessed with every move, this franchise has ever made, forever and a day. Remember that time we made a bad trade on October 2nd, 1956? That's why we haven't won a cup since!!!!

View attachment 404768
We should he happy with the assets we got back and if your a kapanen fan(I am) be happy that he is performing quite well.

Either Amirov and Hallinder are our 3C and 1LW for the future or we sell then and buy a win now player very soon.

It was strong value then and it will he strng value into the future. Win-Win trade with kapanen delivering early on for the Pens
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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You stated that the thing that would solidify you not making the trade was your personal, arbitrary interpretation of normal, momentary confusion in a draft set-up that has never been done before, by somebody who has never made a selection in even a normal draft. You represented it as a hesitation by the Leafs in taking Amirov, and that's not true at all.

I said I would not make the trade if there was no cap (and I added) unless I thought the pick at #15 was better than Kappy.
 

ULF_55

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Nobody was signed based on a 100m cap, but literally every negotiation in the history of the cap era (until this past summer) was done with the understanding of a rising cap, and the cap was on its way up pretty fast prior to a once in a century pandemic.

Yes, I understand that. Heck, for a long time you bought the most expensive home you could afford because you knew that over the next few years you'd be getting raises and the percentage of your income towards housing would decrease.

I don't think I'd live by that knowledge today. Gap between income growth and housing cost increases continues to grow

Anyway, Leafs have been flirting with this, especially when you consider the top heavy contracts they have at forward. But I think there are good players nearing the end of their careers that are always going to be available now willing to earn a million as bit players.

Kapanen is a good player.
Leafs traded him for space and futures.
 

socko

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The grass really is greener on the other side for many of you.

As soon as we trade a player, you cease to the see all of their flaws. Kapanen was invisible on a regular basis for us, and had finishing rivaled only by Mikheyev. Kap was subpar defensively 5v5 and was soft was butter outside a 10 game period last year when he was getting into fights and throwing his weight.

I like the guy and I hope he carves out a nice career in Pitt but I will take the cap space, Hallander and Amirov every single day of the week.
Kap's finish is a lot better than Mikheyev. I haven't seen a guy with as little scoring touch as Mikheyev in a while. It's like he's intentionally trying not to score or something.
 
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Dekes For Days

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Yes, I understand that. Heck, for a long time you bought the most expensive home you could afford because you knew that over the next few years you'd be getting raises and the percentage of your income towards housing would decrease. I don't think I'd live by that knowledge today.
I don't think "buying the most expensive house you could afford on the idea of a future raise" was ever the best financial advice... but that's also talking about economic, wage, and housing cost trends over a long period of time, and adjustments in behaviour can and have been made to match those changing trends. That's not really the same thing as the immediate onset of a once-in-a-century global pandemic that threw a wrench in literally everything.
Anyway, Leafs have been flirting with this, especially when you consider the top heavy contracts they have at forward.
Leaf's big contracts aren't any different than anybody else's. They just happened to come due at an unfortunate time. It's not like the Leafs can just go "hey there's a remote chance of a global pandemic screwing everything up at some point in the future, so we're going to pay you less than you deserve relative to everybody else".
 

hamzarocks

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Anyone who didn't think Kappy would get into the 30gl/60pt range playing with Sid/Geno and getting PP time as he moved into his mid-20s was kidding themselves.

Kappy was good for us, and that's why we got very good trade value in return.
Hes a very good player just COVId screwed our (and league wide cap modeling).

Think if cap had gone like expected to 85-88M we still have him and deal only AJ
 

zeke

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Hes a very good player just COVId screwed our (and league wide cap modeling).

Think if cap had gone like expected to 85-88M we still have him and deal only AJ

Yeah, I'd guess the plan was always to trade 1 of Kappy/AJ/Kerfoot each year for 3 years to fit the cap, giving time for kids like Robertson, Amirov, Hallander, etc. fill in step by step as they developed.

(Though tbh I think we may have traded kappy anyways this year due to the most trade value, and then tried to let AJ recoup some of his lost trade value before moving him next year.)

The flat cap pushed that schedule up a year and forced us to trade 2 in year 1 and likely kerfoot in year 2 now.

Otoh, the flatcap also gave us the ability to replace kappy's production with a guy like Thornton in the short term, buying that extra time for the prospects to develop.
 
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ULF_55

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I don't think "buying the most expensive house you could afford on the idea of a future raise" was ever the best financial advice... but that's also talking about economic, wage, and housing cost trends over a long period of time, and adjustments in behaviour can and have been made to match those changing trends. That's not really the same thing as the immediate onset of a once-in-a-century global pandemic that threw a wrench in literally everything.

Leaf's big contracts aren't any different than anybody else's. They just happened to come due at an unfortunate time. It's not like the Leafs can just go "hey there's a remote chance of a global pandemic screwing everything up at some point in the future, so we're going to pay you less than you deserve relative to everybody else".

Before the Pandemic started there were concerns.

But at any rate Kapanen was really gone because of the Cap, and Kerfoot may follow suit for the same reason.
 
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ULF_55

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Yeah, I'd guess the plan was always to trade 1 of Kappy/AJ/Kerfoot each year for 3 years to fit the cap, giving time for kids like Robertson, Amirov, Hallander, etc. fill in step by step as they developed.

(Though tbh I think we may have traded kappy anyways this year due to the most trade value, and then tried to let AJ recoup some of his lost trade value before moving him next year.)

The flat cap pushed that schedule up a year and forced us to trade 2 in year 1 and likely kerfoot in year 2 now.

Otoh, the flatcap also gave us the ability to replace kappy's production with a guy like Thornton in the short term, buying that extra time for the prospects to develop.

Kapanen for futures is a normal trade even when you don't have cap constraints.

The prospects have to turn into NHL players for this to be a good trade.

Cap space usage is about the now, the prospects are about the future.

I see no reason to be unhappy about as along with the Johnsson trade it opened up space for a good defenseman and some mercenaries.
 
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Dekes For Days

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Before the Pandemic started there were concerns.
There were no cap concerns before the pandemic started, beyond the normal navigation of the cap that every team goes through. We did and still do have a good cap situation.
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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There were no cap concerns before the pandemic started, beyond the normal navigation of the cap that every team goes through. We did and still do have a good cap situation.

If having to go dumpster diving yearly is a good cap situation, hate to see a bad one. As soon as one of your dumpster dives does well, he is as good as gone (see Tyler Ennis) because you most likely do not have cap space to give him a raise in a flat cap world. Or you have to throw somebody else overboard. You know like Kappy and AJ and to be followed by Kerfoot and Andersen. Our only hope is that this pandemic ends and we get butts in the seats.
 
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