Line Combos: TOR needs to **** or get off the pot in regards to our defense

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
20,128
10,639
This RHD is more a social media issue than a NHL team issue.
Babcock very much likes D playing on their preferred side.
It's not a social media thing.
Have you tried moving the puck as a D on the wrong side ? quite a bit harder.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,736
11,002
I couldn’t care less about Ennis. The biggest thing to take away from that chart is how many horrible possession players are leaving the team.

Why are you in such a rush to make a move for a defenseman? Why not wait until the TDL before spending assets adding something that may not even be needed?
We also need to see how replacing Bozak, JVR, Martin, a lost a step Komarov improves overall team D.
Not sure if anyone has the stats, but I'd like to see how a solid defensive forward squad improves the numbers of the 6 guys labelled defenseman in the long run.
You put Parayko on this team from 6/7 years ago, and I'm sure he's a -20. Love to have him but 6 guys also need help from 12.
 
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namttebih

Registered User
Dec 11, 2010
4,778
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East York
Ok, I want to bring up 7 D again.

We all know that Hainsey couldn't sustain his usage last year. We also know that Babs loves to use him extensively on the PK.

With the importance of puck movement in today's NHL I think that we can promote from within this year and have a VERY mobile but inexperienced D-corps.

Gardiner Rielly
Dermott Zaitsev
Rosen Liljegren
Hainsey

Play the first pairing 25 minutes a night. Shelter the shit out of the third pairing and play Hainsey pretty much exclusively on the PK.
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
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I'd have Carrick on the Leafs ahead of Liljegren. Liljegren still needs some seasoning in the AHL I think, unless he's taken very big strides this past offseason.
 

namttebih

Registered User
Dec 11, 2010
4,778
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East York
I'd have Carrick on the Leafs ahead of Liljegren. Liljegren still needs some seasoning in the AHL I think, unless he's taken very big strides this past offseason.
I read an interview with Keefe the other day in which he said that the sheltering last year was less about ability and more about protecting him from goonery in the A while at the same time working in strength.

I may have been mis-reading and hearing what I wanted to hear but it sounds as if he's further along than expected. He looked really good in Laval on the weekend against peers.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Lilly is awesome.

Leafs fans picking apart his game will unfortunately be a permanent thing, just like with Rielly, Willy and Naz. Once we pick a guy for that kind of scrutiny, it never changes, no matter what that player does.
 

BodaciousBeefBazooka

Go Leafs Go
Apr 4, 2013
3,717
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Lilly is awesome.

Leafs fans picking apart his game will unfortunately be a permanent thing, just like with Rielly, Willy and Naz. Once we pick a guy for that kind of scrutiny, it never changes, no matter what that player does.
See, now you are catching on! Sad but true
 

meefer

Registered User
Jun 9, 2015
4,682
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Bangkok
Lilly is awesome.

Leafs fans picking apart his game will unfortunately be a permanent thing, just like with Rielly, Willy and Naz. Once we pick a guy for that kind of scrutiny, it never changes, no matter what that player does.

For his age. Were he to play in the NHL at the beginning of the season I don't think he'd be awesome. He'd be exposed as having weaknesses as most young defensemen are when placed in that situation. Which is not to say that I'm unhappy with who he is, how he's progressed and what I think he'll develop into. Given his past I think we'll have a very good player on the Leafs, in time, and hopefully, a player who is awesome :) just not yet.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
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I'd have Carrick on the Leafs ahead of Liljegren. Liljegren still needs some seasoning in the AHL I think, unless he's taken very big strides this past offseason.
I think TL is talented enough to play in the NHL on a sheltered bottom pairing spot, but I don't think that's best for his development. he wouldn't get PP time, so he'd be wasted in that regard. May as well let him dominate in the AHL for another year and let him take Hainsey's spot next season
 
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WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
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Lilly is awesome.

Leafs fans picking apart his game will unfortunately be a permanent thing, just like with Rielly, Willy and Naz. Once we pick a guy for that kind of scrutiny, it never changes, no matter what that player does.

He does a lot of good, he gets burned the odd time too. I think this year with the Marlies will do wonders for him, he'll learn how to mitigate risk and choose his spots.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
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Babs is not going to let a 20-year old fill Hainsey's spot. Liljegren will be spending significant time on the 3rd pairing whether he is brought up at 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 or 24.
next season as in when Hainsey's contract is up, and hopefully he can be the #6 guy
 

WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
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next season as in when Hainsey's contract is up, and hopefully he can be the #6 guy

I agree with this. I am fairly certain that Liljegren is going to be used a lot in the AHL this year and should be ready for the season after this.

Rielly-X
Dermott-Zaitsev
X-Liljegren
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
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I agree with this. I am fairly certain that Liljegren is going to be used a lot in the AHL this year and should be ready for the season after this.

Rielly-X
Dermott-Zaitsev
X-Liljegren
the 2nd X could easily be someone like Rosen or Borgman. The first X will be a pretty tough spot to fill unfortunately. Barring a miracle, I don't see anyone in our organization who's close to filling it
 

WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
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the 2nd X could easily be someone like Rosen or Borgman. The first X will be a pretty tough spot to fill unfortunately. Barring a miracle, I don't see anyone in our organization who's close to filling it

Rosen or Bormgan are solid bets. The year following I imagine Sandin is in the conversation.
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
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We also need to see how replacing Bozak, JVR, Martin, a lost a step Komarov improves overall team D.
Not sure if anyone has the stats, but I'd like to see how a solid defensive forward squad improves the numbers of the 6 guys labelled defenseman in the long run.
You put Parayko on this team from 6/7 years ago, and I'm sure he's a -20. Love to have him but 6 guys also need help from 12.

Replacing Bozak and JVR who were sheltered and still looked bad defensively will help a lot. It was too many easy minutes for the competition to play against.

Having all of our young forwards a year older and better defensively will help this team immensely.
 
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biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
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Buffalo
next season as in when Hainsey's contract is up, and hopefully he can be the #6 guy

Yes, I understood that you were talking about the next season. I was just saying that he is not taking Hainsey's spot when his contract is up, which you agree. Perhaps Zaitsev can take Hainsey's spot, otherwise they are looking outside of the organization, or re-signing Hainsey and playing him until he dies.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
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Yes, I understood that you were talking about the next season. I was just saying that he is not taking Hainsey's spot when his contract is up, which you agree. Perhaps Zaitsev can take Hainsey's spot, otherwise they are looking outside of the organization, or re-signing Hainsey and playing him until he dies.
oh yeah it would be insane to play a 20 year old against the toughest competition in the league at 5v5 and by far the most PK minutes in the league, although possibly not as insane as giving those minutes to a 37 year old.

right now he should be able to dominate the AHL and either force a call up late in the year, or take an open D spot in camp next year. That top right spot will be very tough to fill though for sure. Zaitsev can't even fill his second pairing role as of now
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
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Buffalo
oh yeah it would be insane to play a 20 year old against the toughest competition in the league at 5v5 and by far the most PK minutes in the league, although possibly not as insane as giving those minutes to a 37 year old.

My hope is that Rielly and Dermott will be the 1st unit on the PK this season, and Zaitsev and Hainsey will be the second pairing. But last year Babs removed Dermott from the PK after game 1 of the playoffs despite Hainsey, Zaitsev and Polak being worse.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
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My hope is that Rielly and Dermott will be the 1st unit on the PK this season, and Zaitsev and Hainsey will be the second pairing. But last year Babs removed Dermott from the PK after game 1 of the playoffs despite Hainsey, Zaitsev and Polak being worse.
the Leafs PK needs an overhaul in general. not running Hainsey into the ground is a start, but it's still quite awful. lacking quality PKing defensemen is an issue, but the forwards are also generally too passive. The entire system is flawed (at 5v5 too)
 

Puckstuff

Registered User
May 12, 2010
11,037
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Milton
We aren't in the first year of contending for 10 years. We are in the 2nd year of an approxtimate 8 year window. While it could be 7 years or 9 years; there window won't be here forever. Look at how fast the Hawks declined. Even the Pens window may be coming to an end.

I am fine trading Liliegren; his age doesn't fit in with the core. D-men take so long to develop.

I'd do Liliegren, Kapanen + 1st round pick for the right top d-man. There are times you go for it; that window is now.
 

WTFMAN99

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
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We aren't in the first year of contending for 10 years. We are in the 2nd year of an approxtimate 8 year window. While it could be 7 years or 9 years; there window won't be here forever. Look at how fast the Hawks declined. Even the Pens window may be coming to an end.

I am fine trading Liliegren; his age doesn't fit in with the core. D-men take so long to develop.

I'd do Liliegren, Kapanen + 1st round pick for the right top d-man. There are times you go for it; that window is now.

I agree, you hit the nail on the head; the right top defenseman. If the guy surfaces that we need this year, then jump on it and make it happen. Just make sure the guy either has term or is willing to re-sign but other then that, it's our last hole to fill.
 
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Kshahdoo

Registered User
Mar 23, 2008
19,150
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Moscow, Russia
oh yeah it would be insane to play a 20 year old against the toughest competition in the league at 5v5 and by far the most PK minutes in the league, although possibly not as insane as giving those minutes to a 37 year old.

right now he should be able to dominate the AHL and either force a call up late in the year, or take an open D spot in camp next year. That top right spot will be very tough to fill though for sure. Zaitsev can't even fill his second pairing role as of now

Lol, what defenseman can fill his role, being the only defenseman on the ice most of time (in 5 vs 5 situations at least)? Because Gardiner isn't a defenseman. He wouldn't be very good defensively even for a forward...
 

BodaciousBeefBazooka

Go Leafs Go
Apr 4, 2013
3,717
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Toronto
We aren't in the first year of contending for 10 years. We are in the 2nd year of an approxtimate 8 year window. While it could be 7 years or 9 years; there window won't be here forever. Look at how fast the Hawks declined. Even the Pens window may be coming to an end.

I am fine trading Liliegren; his age doesn't fit in with the core. D-men take so long to develop.

I'd do Liliegren, Kapanen + 1st round pick for the right top d-man. There are times you go for it; that window is now.
Throw Hyman in there as well
 

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