Proposal: TOR-MTL (Weber)

[David Suzuki]

Wonder where Weber ranks on the disrespected players of all time? Right up there with Subban when he played for the Habs

 

[sansabri]

I would ignore anyone saying it's not enough...It's way too much.

You're paying a 1st + Kapanen + Bracco to upgrade from Zaitsev (4.5m) to Weber (7.9m).

OK for now....but Zaitsev is 25....In years 4-8 when Weber is 36-40....will he be better than Zaitsev?

Maybe. Maybe not. But he will be 3.4m more expensive & possibly untradeable.

-------

Weber ($6 million cap hit) + Galchenyuk

for

Zaitsev + Kapanen + Bracco + Nielsen + conditional 1st (if we re-sign Galchenyuk)

Garbage. You're not getting a top D for this package.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

If low cost futures are included, such as picks or players like Kapanen, Liljegren it is really bad deal for the Leafs.
The Leafs would be a thousand times better off overpaying a a UFA....such as Carlson or Statsny and keeping their young assets.
It's a cap league and there is reason long term contracts often have to be traded for long contracts to make a trade viable.

 

[Baksfamous112]

That seems to be the burning question, if Bergevin decides to retool or rebuild or not- as to whether Weber is moved. And based on his presser, it's not going to happen. What I got was that he believed it was an off-year that snowballed, partly due to extraneous circumstances (like the "attitude" of the locker room). I interpreted this as him genuinely thinking that there is a lot of parity in the league and that the Habs are prime to retool and compete again next year. Should say that I don't have an opinion either way on that, simply making an observation.

And yea, it's a good year to have multiple picks in the first 2 rounds and I'm well aware about the picks the Habs have, it will be an important year for Timmins to make use of them.

All I was doing in that post is trying to correct this faulty logic that there is an inherent difference between lucking out into a Matthews caliber talent- despite having the proper process measures in place before then to succeed (i.e. the framework of the rebuild, with Marner/Nylander/Dermott already in the pipeline). It has moreso to do with setting yourself up for success if your objective is ultimately to rebuild. We would have been on the right course whether we got Matthews, or a PLD/Tkachuk/Keller, etc. Certainly, Leafs were fortunate to luck out though.

And the truth is, he’s probably right. We will certainly add a young player who will probably help us as soon as next season along with 4 2nd rounder in a deep draft. We’ve got some good young kids and almost 18M in cap space if we find the right deal.

On top of that, we got Pacioretty as a trade chip to fill the holes remaining and get younger. If Bergevin plays his cards right, we might be the Bruins V2.0 in a couple of years.

Let’s give the man another chance and see what he got in him.

 

[TMLeafs18]

The Leafs don’t want him and his contract.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I would ignore anyone saying it's not enough...It's way too much.

You're paying a 1st + Kapanen + Bracco to upgrade from Zaitsev (4.5m) to Weber (7.9m).

OK for now....but Zaitsev is 25....In years 4-8 when Weber is 36-40....will he be better than Zaitsev?

Maybe. Maybe not. But he will be 3.4m more expensive & possibly untradeable.

-------

Weber ($6 million cap hit) + Galchenyuk

for

Zaitsev + Kapanen + Bracco + Nielsen + conditional 1st (if we re-sign Galchenyuk)

How does a Leaf's fan not know that Zaitsev is 26 and will be 27 next season?

 

[drewjenks]

How does a Leaf's fan not know that Zaitsev is 26 and will be 27 next season?

Well at least you didn't refute my point.

 

[drewjenks]

Garbage. You're not getting a top D for this package.

Your nor getting very much for a salary dump. Weber is a guaranteed albatross.

He's already a little slower at 33. Enjoy paying him $8 million at 40....

 

[drewjenks]

Dude, if you don't want Galchenyuk and Weber, just say it instead of posting these garbage proposals.

I'm sorry...did you want more than:

Zaitsev + Kapanen + Bracco + Nielsen + 1st.......for Galchenyuk ?

Webber doesn't really have much value after you look at his cap hit, age & term....

-------------------

ANSWER 1 QUESTION WITH A YES OR NO:

Do you think you'll be happy with Weber's $7,900,000 cap hit on Montreal's books in 8 years?

If that's a no....he's not very valuable.

 

[sansabri]

ANSWER 1 QUESTION WITH A YES OR NO:

Do you think you'll be happy with Weber's $7,900,000 cap hit on Montreal's books in 8 years?

If that's a no....he's not very valuable.

He's pretty valuable to Nashville. Well, his recapture penalty is, anyway.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Well at least you didn't refute my point.

That's only because I didn't feel like ganging up. Your point shows how little you understand of Weber's contract and your proposal was legitimately funny.

 

[drewjenks]

That's only because I didn't feel like ganging up. Your point shows how little you understand of Weber's contract and your proposal was legitimately funny.

"Your point shows how little you understand of Weber's contract"

- Weber has a $7,857,143 cap hit for 8 more years after this one.
- Weber will be 33 when next season starts & over 40 when his contract expires.
- Weber missed the end of the season to have lower body surgery.
- Weber had already declined noticeably since his prime (before needing surgery).

So what exactly don't I understand of Weber's contract?

- I know he's likely to under-perform his cap hit for most of the next 8 years.
- I know he'll probably have to be bought out at some point.
- I know declining 33 year old's often come back slower after lower body surgery.
- I know every NHL GM is aware of this except for Bergevin.
- I know he won't return a younger star like Subban or a prospect like Sergachev.

So please - humor me & explain what you meant?

 

[David Suzuki]

"Your point shows how little you understand of Weber's contract"

- Weber has a $7,857,143 cap hit for 8 more years after this one.
- Weber will be 33 when next season starts & over 40 when his contract expires.
- Weber missed the end of the season to have lower body surgery.
- Weber had already declined noticeably since his prime (before needing surgery).

So what exactly don't I understand of Weber's contract?

- I know he's likely to under-perform his cap hit for most of the next 8 years.
- I know he'll probably have to be bought out at some point.
- I know declining 33 year old's often come back slower after lower body surgery.
- I know every NHL GM is aware of this except for Bergevin.
- I know he won't return a younger star like Subban or a prospect like Sergachev.

So please - humor me & explain what you meant?

The entire premise here is just wrong because Weber is still great.

 

[Captain Mountain]

"Your point shows how little you understand of Weber's contract"

- Weber has a $7,857,143 cap hit for 8 more years after this one.
- Weber will be 33 when next season starts & over 40 when his contract expires.
- Weber missed the end of the season to have lower body surgery.
- Weber had already declined noticeably since his prime (before needing surgery).

So what exactly don't I understand of Weber's contract?

- I know he's likely to under-perform his cap hit for most of the next 8 years.
- I know he'll probably have to be bought out at some point.
- I know declining 33 year old's often come back slower after lower body surgery.
- I know every NHL GM is aware of this except for Bergevin.
- I know he won't return a younger star like Subban or a prospect like Sergachev.

So please - humor me & explain what you meant?

Weber's still an excellent defenceman, (his decline from truly elite was years ago, he's been comparable his last few seasons), he's got one of the classic back diving contracts (he's owed 6 million over the last 4 years and 3 million over the last 3) and only Nashville is on the hook from cap recapture. It's incredibly unlikely that he's bought out (and a fan of a team with Pridham thinking that its probable is hilarious), you don't even know his injury or how it may effect him (as if mobility was his strength to begin with). The last two comments are frankly stupid (since he's still incredibly highly regarded around the NHL and the last point has literally no relevance to your other arguments).

And ignoring your hilariously awful proposal is even better.

You can continue to argue his decline, but until you put in any effort at all to demonstrate it, I'm not even sure you understand the degree of his decline. Its fortunate that your favourite team's front office is more creative than you. Not that it matters in the context of this thread, because Weber isn't being traded, wont be traded for Toronto's scraps and even if he is available, wont be traded to Toronto barring an overpayment.

 

[Morgie44]

Not that it matters in the context of this thread, because Weber isn't being traded, wont be traded for Toronto's scraps and even if he is available, wont be traded to Toronto barring an overpayment.

What would it take to get Shea Weber on the Leafs?

 

[Hostile Offer]

ANSWER 1 QUESTION WITH A YES OR NO:

Do you think you'll be happy with Weber's $7,900,000 cap hit on Montreal's books in 8 years?

If that's a no....he's not very valuable.

Yes absolutely. In the last three years of his contract if he's absolutely washed up, he'll likely either be retired or Chicago-esque LTIR'd. Weber will make peanuts in those years due to his absurdly front-loaded deal so it's not like there's much incentive for him to keep playing if he's not healthy or good enough. And for his current level of play, he's absolutely worth his cap hit. Dealing with this contract will likely be a little tricky but there is a very good chance for it to not become a burden for us.

 

[Mrb1p]

Your nor getting very much for a salary dump. Weber is a guaranteed albatross.

He's already a little slower at 33. Enjoy paying him $8 million at 40....

Markov was also "getting a little slower already" at 33, and Id pay the 8m everyday of the week to have Markov on this team at 39.

The 7.9 for Weber doesnt matter. Teams are going to make him fit under the cap for a cup, its shortsighted to look at a contract like that and think hes 33 and overpaid.

This is how you end up on a 50 years drought.

 

[Mrb1p]

What would it take to get Shea Weber on the Leafs?

Two first and a roster player, not a cap dump.

 

[dirty stanchion]

Markov was also "getting a little slower already" at 33, and Id pay the 8m everyday of the week to have Markov on this team at 39.

The 7.9 for Weber doesnt matter. Teams are going to make him fit under the cap for a cup, its shortsighted to look at a contract like that and think hes 33 and overpaid.

This is how you end up on a 50 years drought.

I was just wondering if you meant that taking on a player like Weber with his contract is what has resulted in the drought, or not taking on a player like Weber has resulted in the drought.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Two first and a roster player, not a cap dump.

Leafs and habs are never going to make a huge trade like the Weber trade would be.

Also wouldnt touch 2 1sts and a good roster player for Weber. Doesn't fit the Leafs style and age of core. Also don't think they could fit him under the cap with the big 3 needing contracts soon.

Surprised this is still open...

 

[Randy Randerson]

Markov was also "getting a little slower already" at 33, and Id pay the 8m everyday of the week to have Markov on this team at 39.

The 7.9 for Weber doesnt matter. Teams are going to make him fit under the cap for a cup, its shortsighted to look at a contract like that and think hes 33 and overpaid.

This is how you end up on a 50 years drought.

well, this is a little ironic coming from a team approaching 30 years of their own drought where the player in question was acquired to, and failed to, make that team a contender. If it didn't work for you, why would it work for us where that player is a few years older?

betting on a player being good into their late 30's from the perspective of 6 years before the end of their contract is playing long odds, especially where that player is not a great skater and is a big body - guys who age well tend towards being terrific skaters and average sized. If you want to cite the unicorn examples and bank on the player following that path, have at 'er, that's not a good bet by the odds.

Leafs don't take Weber for free, and there's a good chance he retires a Hab. Hopefully for your sakes its when he's 36 not when he's 39

 

[Mrb1p]

well, this is a little ironic coming from a team approaching 30 years of their own drought where the player in question was acquired to, and failed to, make that team a contender. If it didn't work for you, why would it work for us where that player is a few years older?

betting on a player being good into their late 30's from the perspective of 6 years before the end of their contract is playing long odds, especially where that player is not a great skater and is a big body - guys who age well tend towards being terrific skaters and average sized. If you want to cite the unicorn examples and bank on the player following that path, have at 'er, that's not a good bet by the odds.

Leafs don't take Weber for free, and there's a good chance he retires a Hab. Hopefully for your sakes its when he's 36 not when he's 39

The goal is to win the cup. Nothing else, make adjustments after you win it. Otherwise you end up like the Caps and Sharks and never actually win anything

 

[Randy Randerson]

The goal is to win the cup. Nothing else, make adjustments after you win it. Otherwise you end up like the Caps and Sharks and never actually win anything

right, so making moves that are likely to present huge obstacles to contending at all are a bad idea.

you're talking about the same move that just didn't work for your team, only the player who's age and health were a concern is older and less healthy

 

[Mrb1p]

right, so making moves that are likely to present huge obstacles to contending at all are a bad idea.

you're talking about the same move that just didn't work for your team, only the player who's age and health were a concern is older and less healthy

"My team" has huge holes everywhere, the Leafs only have one and it's at defense, fix that crap and win. It's not an obstacle, cap is not as important as HF wants you to believe.

 

[Mrb1p]

well, this is a little ironic coming from a team approaching 30 years of their own drought where the player in question was acquired to, and failed to, make that team a contender. If it didn't work for you, why would it work for us where that player is a few years older?

betting on a player being good into their late 30's from the perspective of 6 years before the end of their contract is playing long odds, especially where that player is not a great skater and is a big body - guys who age well tend towards being terrific skaters and average sized. If you want to cite the unicorn examples and bank on the player following that path, have at 'er, that's not a good bet by the odds.

Leafs don't take Weber for free, and there's a good chance he retires a Hab. Hopefully for your sakes its when he's 36 not when he's 39

Weber for free ? What the heck is that. No number one D ever has gone for "free" why would it start now ?

Are you even familiar with his contract ?

Also, the first thing that leaves a player is skating, I'd say you're clueless.