Speculation: TOR may have to acquire another goalie

Kurtz

Registered User
Jul 17, 2005
10,034
6,893
Because those are poor numbers for a goalie. I don't see why league average comes into play in this discussion. We waived Big Mac to bring in Sparks. Lets look at his backup numbers last season.

GAA 2.15 SV% .924

the wrong call was made

Again - those are poor numbers for a starting goalie, but they're perfectly fine for a backup. You need to be able to draw a distinction between a starter's number's and a backup's, else you end up giving up first rounders for the likes of Toskala and Bernier.

You want a management group that makes forward-thinking decisions, rather than the Nonis-type reactive decisions where you overpay guys based on their recent performance and ignoring their age/history. That's how we ended up spending big money on the likes of Blake, Clarkson, etc in the past.

At the time the decision was made, keeping Sparks and risking Mac and Picard on wavers was a logical, forward-thinking move. At the moment, it looks like the decision was a miss, but we won't know for a while. One thing I can guarantee you is that it doesn't matter who our backup is - if Freddie isn't healthy, we're not winning any series regardless.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
77,850
51,520
Sorry Sticky, we agree on a lot of things but McBackup has been better than Sparks this season on a worse team, and thus we’d be better if we had Mac and not Sparks, at least from October-January. Maybe Sparks stands on his head from January-April and Mac sucks, who knows.

The reason to keep Sparks was the “long-term”, so that shouldn’t even be a surprise. Anyone thinking Sparks could just come in and put up Mac like numbers had too high of expectations for Sparks.

Keeping Sparks was a long term move and a risk, no doubt, but if you think about other positions, the logic is sound. Patrick Marleau is a more productive player this very moment than Andreas Johnsson, but you're not going to lose Johnsson to keep Marleau around.
 

BertCorbeau

F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
Jan 6, 2012
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Again - those are poor numbers for a starting goalie, but they're perfectly fine for a backup. You need to be able to draw a distinction between a starter's number's and a backup's, else you end up giving up first rounders for the likes of Toskala and Bernier.

You want a management group that makes forward-thinking decisions, rather than the Nonis-type reactive decisions where you overpay guys based on their recent performance and ignoring their age/history. That's how we ended up spending big money on the likes of Blake, Clarkson, etc in the past.

At the time the decision was made, keeping Sparks and risking Mac and Picard on wavers was a logical, forward-thinking move. At the moment, it looks like the decision was a miss, but we won't know for a while. One thing I can guarantee you is that it doesn't matter who our backup is - if Freddie isn't healthy, we're not winning any series regardless.

Wait, these numbers are poor for a starter: GAA 2.15 SV% .924? Or did I miss something?
 

Nineteen67

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Dec 12, 2017
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Agreed but at least we would have got a point in a 3-3 tie. Hutch has a terrible history of soft goals. Again that one between the 5 hole was because he was lazy and had to stick pointed skyward not flat on ice. Hutch was the reason why Winnipeg did not make playoffs 2 years sooner.

Give him a break since he was watching Ozhiganov do that sideways defensive move posture that no one has ever seen in a pee wee game, let alone an NHL game.
 

Suntouchable13

Registered User
Dec 20, 2003
43,031
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Toronto, ON
Based on what? Your feelz? Keep ignoring the raw data. I'll take his backup stats over Sparks all day. We're a worse team without Mac.

Backup stats, sure, let's not pretend that McElhinney could be a starter in this league. We are in January and he still only has 14 games started. Freddy already has 30, a true starter in this league. He can not take on a starters load, this has been proven over his entire career. He can have very solid numbers in a small amount of games, I will give him credit for that. No team should want to rely on McElhinney as their starter over a prolonged period of time.
 

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
11,156
3,660
Sparks
HDSV%: .867
Mac
HDSV%: .831

The low danger chances are inflating Mac's numbers. Sparks has been better then him.
PlayerSeasonAgeGPGSWLGASASVSV%GAAGA%-GSAASOMINQSQS%RBSGPS
Curtis McElhinney2018-193514148531407376.9242.22836.3008398.57132.9
Garret Sparks2018-19251096228295267.9053.00104-0.9715594.44421.5
[THEAD] [/THEAD]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
GSAA -- Goals Saved Above Average, the goals this goalie prevented given his save percentage and shots faced vs. the league average save percentage on the same number of shots. Min. 4 shots faced per team game needed to qualify.

SO -- Shutouts
PIM -- Penalties in Minutes
MIN -- Minutes
QS -- Quality Starts
Starts with SV% > average SV% for the year, or at least 88.5% on nights with 20 or fewer shots against.
Developed by Rob Vollman in the Hockey Abstract.
QS% -- Quality Start Percentage
QS/GS
> 60% Good, < 50% Bad, ~53% League Avg

Developed by Rob Vollman in the Hockey Abstract.
RBS -- Really Bad Starts
Starts with a SV% below 85%.
Developed by Rob Vollman in the Hockey Abstract
GPS -- Goalie Point Shares; an estimate of the number of points contributed by a player due to his play in goal.

#shemp
 
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Nineteen67

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It is classic Hutch. First period looked great. When it counts somehow the long range house league shot on the ice with no screen beats him between the legs. Game over. We lose a point.

Go watch that Spurgeon goal......Oz should be in the press box tomorrow....but he won’t be
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
40,975
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St. Paul, MN
Again - those are poor numbers for a starting goalie, but they're perfectly fine for a backup. You need to be able to draw a distinction between a starter's number's and a backup's, else you end up giving up first rounders for the likes of Toskala and Bernier.

You want a management group that makes forward-thinking decisions, rather than the Nonis-type reactive decisions where you overpay guys based on their recent performance and ignoring their age/history. That's how we ended up spending big money on the likes of Blake, Clarkson, etc in the past.

At the time the decision was made, keeping Sparks and risking Mac and Picard on wavers was a logical, forward-thinking move. At the moment, it looks like the decision was a miss, but we won't know for a while. One thing I can guarantee you is that it doesn't matter who our backup is - if Freddie isn't healthy, we're not winning any series regardless.

You gamble on younger talent 10/10 times.

As a gamble sometimes it won’t work out, but it’s woeth the risk.
 

Egghead1999

Registered User
Nov 9, 2007
3,138
839
We wouldn't be here if better goalie decisions were made at the start of the season. Babs was not very happy with the decision process back then, and by stating his desire/need for more goalie backups now he seems to be reinforcing that.

RKPLAYER TEAMGPWLOTLGAAGASASVSVPCTSO
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
5Curtis McElhinney, G CAR148512.2231407376.9240
8Frederik Andersen, G TOR3020912.5074965891.9231
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Are you telling me that Babs had no input when they put Mcbackup on waiver?

If I were him, I would shut up and try to fix the PP instead. Hey, if leafs cannot solve the current PP problem. teams will have no problem taking liberties with leafs young stars:popcorn:
 

The CyNick

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Sep 17, 2009
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I would've respected your post more if you didn't have an age bias and poster about someone in a demeaning manor because of his age.

No demeaning from me based on age. I'm just stating a fact that he's young and inexperienced. We had an experienced GM and lead scout and we let them walk in exchange for a kid who seemingly isn't at the top of his game.
 

The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
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Maybe you should run the team oh holy CyNick

I wouldnt have been focused on signing one of my core pieces instead of taking selfies with the Calder Cup all season. And we would have had a competent backup goalie right now.
 
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Liminality

Registered User
Oct 22, 2008
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I would have been focused on signing one of my core pieces instead of taking selfies with the Calder Cup all season. And we would have had a competent backup goalie right now.
Was probably busy signing Tavares.

If the Leafs need a backup goalie, it shouldn't cost that much. Doesn't seem like Andersen or Sparks are long term though.
 
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indigobuffalo

Portage and Main
Feb 10, 2011
6,790
559
Winnipeg MB
This fanbase should be ashamed of itself, claim Mike Mckenna are you ****ing serious? you people, want MORE AHL garbage behind Andersen?

Here is a thought, instead of throwing more AHL crap onto the pile, how about Kyle gets off his ass and does what he should have done MONTHS ago and gets an actual NHL level backup?

How about that?

How many teams are doing the same thing... the market just doesn’t exist.

Can you name some “actual NHL backups” that are better than Sparks?
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
45,389
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How many teams are doing the same thing... the market just doesn’t exist.

Can you name some “actual NHL backups” that are better than Sparks?

Khudobin

Halak although he may have taken the starter job but he was signed to be the backup.

Ryan Miller

Either NYI goalie

Although not great this year I'd say when he's allowed to be strictly a backup Keith Kinkaid is better

Saros isn't having a great year but was fantastic the previous 2 years so he counts.

Grauber hasn't been great this year but was fantastic the previous 3 years so he counts.

How many do you need? i can do this forever.
 
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dubplatepressure

Registered User
Jul 10, 2007
15,831
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Khudobin

Halak although he may have taken the starter job but he was signed to be the backup.

Ryan Miller

Either NYI goalie

Although not great this year I'd say when he's allowed to be strictly a backup Keith Kinkaid is better

Saros isn't having a great year but was fantastic the previous 2 years so he counts.

Grauber hasn't been great this year but was fantastic the previous 3 years so he counts.

How many do you need? i can do this forever.

How many are available for a reasonable cost?
 

bbgobie

Registered User
Sep 19, 2009
690
149
Cliff Fletcher should be your choice of gm than no? Experience and age being the two most important factors in a gm?

No demeaning from me based on age. I'm just stating a fact that he's young and inexperienced. We had an experienced GM and lead scout and we let them walk in exchange for a kid who seemingly isn't at the top of his game.
 

dubplatepressure

Registered User
Jul 10, 2007
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Depends on what you consider "reasonable cost."

Well isn't that kind of important though? It's one thing to say those are goalies that would work but it's another to consider how likely we are to be able to trade for them without it being considered poor asset management.

I can only imagine how much this place would erupt if Dubas turned around and gave up a good asset for a nice reliable backup goalie after dropping 2 at the start of the year and grabbing Hutch for a 5th.
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
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Well isn't that kind of important though? It's one thing to say those are goalies that would work but it's another to consider how likely we are to be able to trade for them without it being considered poor asset management.

I can only imagine how much this place would erupt if Dubas turned around and gave up a good asset for a nice reliable backup goalie after dropping 2 at the start of the year and grabbing Hutch for a 5th.

Well I asked how many I could name and I named a bunch

and I was able to do that because Sparks is among the worst backups in the league, if he wasn't a Leaf, or possibly in Tampa he would be on waivers right now he has an elite offense in front of him so he's not.

Yes this board would erupt if we traded for a good backup because this board is filled with people that don't want to win, these are the people that want to sell Jake Gardiner for picks and prospects despite the fact the Leafs are currently #2 in the NHL.

Me? I want this team to be as solid as it can be and that can't happen with a bunch of AHL shit behind Freddy.

We NEED a REAL NHL backup
 

The Iceman

Registered User
Sep 22, 2007
5,069
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Well I asked how many I could name and I named a bunch

and I was able to do that because Sparks is among the worst backups in the league, if he wasn't a Leaf, or possibly in Tampa he would be on waivers right now he has an elite offense in front of him so he's not.

Yes this board would erupt if we traded for a good backup because this board is filled with people that don't want to win, these are the people that want to sell Jake Gardiner for picks and prospects despite the fact the Leafs are currently #2 in the NHL.

Me? I want this team to be as solid as it can be and that can't happen with a bunch of AHL **** behind Freddy.

We NEED a REAL NHL backup

Yes, but if we lose a few games january - March to get it right at the trade deadline I am fine with that. A backup soon to be UFA can easily be added at the trade deadline to provide playoff insurance and rest down the stretch for Freddy. Until then I don't care.
Mrazek, Kinkaid, Elliott, Howard, Ward, Talbot, Neuvirth, Koskinen may all be options closer to the deadline.
 

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