Confirmed with Link: [TOR/FLA] TOR acquires G Michael Hutchinson for 2020 5th Round Pick

[A1LeafNation]

Not really. That kind of logic would support keeping Zaitsev over Giordano

Lol did you just compare Mac to gio??

 

[Kiwi]

Yes I'm fairly confident he would pass through. Hutch has a much longer NHL record than sparks and better numbers in the NHL. If you're gambling on a backup why would you go for someone whose career is substandard?
Kaskisuo is having a down year. I attribute it to his injury. Um hoping the second half of the season he's better.

Hutchinson had been brutal in Florida this season, that's why he got through

While Sparks looks terrible technically his record is good, his numbers are OK and his HDCA number is excellent, he's also mid 20’s with a great minor league career, he's got every opportunity of being grabbed

So your plan for our goalie depth is Kaskisou not sucking all of a sudden?

Salt, I've got to say I'm not understanding your position on this, as soon as we picked Sparks at the start of the season we were stuck with him this year, we're committed and potentially ******* the goalie depth again after our #3G just played 5 games in a row because of injury makes my brain hurt

 

[saltming]

Hutchinson had been brutal in Florida this season, that's why he got through

While Sparks looks terrible technically his record is good, his numbers are OK and his HDCA number is excellent, he's also mid 20’s with a great minor league career, he's got every opportunity of being grabbed

So your plan for our goalie depth is Kaskisou not sucking all of a sudden?

Salt, I've got to say I'm not understanding your position on this, as soon as we picked Sparks at the start of the season we were stuck with him this year, we're committed and potentially ******* the goalie depth again after our #3G just played 5 games in a row because of injury makes my brain hurt

Hutch playing in fla and here are 2 different things. Not fair to judge him that way.
If we look at the 2 just in their games with us, the only thing sparks has is the win record, and that's due to the team in front of him. Also, I was talking career numbers.
Also our goalie depth only takes a hit IF sparks gets picked up. it's a calculated risk. Name a team that would be fine if their starter and their backup went down. I'm sure there might be a couple teams, but the general consensus would likely be no.

None of sparks' AHL numbers mean squat when his NHL numbers don't reflect he can make the jump to the NHL.
So you mention sparks' HDCA %, what about his LDCA%?
And why are we stuck with him?

 

[Notsince67]

Lol did you just compare Mac to gio??

Let's do this again. How do you conclude that I am comparing the two with my statement "Not really. That kind of logic would support keeping Zaitsev over Giordano". Only somebody with grade school reading comprehension would paint my words as anything but a comparison of contrasts. Read slower next time.

 

[Kiwi]

Hutch playing in fla and here are 2 different things. Not fair to judge him that way.
If we look at the 2 just in their games with us, the only thing sparks has is the win record, and that's due to the team in front of him. Also, I was talking career numbers.
Also our goalie depth only takes a hit IF sparks gets picked up. it's a calculated risk. Name a team that would be fine if their starter and their backup went down. I'm sure there might be a couple teams, but the general consensus would likely be no.

None of sparks' AHL numbers mean squat when his NHL numbers don't reflect he can make the jump to the NHL.
So you mention sparks' HDCA %, what about his LDCA%?
And why are we stuck with him?

I'm not allowed to judge him in Florida? Why's that exactly? If I say he sucked there and that's why he cleared waivers I hardly see that as controversial

Sparks was playing the back half of b2b, he didn't get a consistent run of games that Hutchinson is getting right now, that also needs to be taken into account as well as Sparks win record and his HDCA%

Guess what? We don't have a depth issues if we don't put Sparks on waivers, no risk involved and why would you put yourself in a position where you don't have an actual #3 in case of emergency? Thats not particularly smart now is it if we just traded a 5th to get one 2 weeks ago

We choose Sparks as the backup, putting him on waivers now for Hutchinson is dumb

 

[Suntouchable13]

Hutch playing in fla and here are 2 different things. Not fair to judge him that way.
If we look at the 2 just in their games with us, the only thing sparks has is the win record, and that's due to the team in front of him. Also, I was talking career numbers.
Also our goalie depth only takes a hit IF sparks gets picked up. it's a calculated risk. Name a team that would be fine if their starter and their backup went down. I'm sure there might be a couple teams, but the general consensus would likely be no.

None of sparks' AHL numbers mean squat when his NHL numbers don't reflect he can make the jump to the NHL.
So you mention sparks' HDCA %, what about his LDCA%?
And why are we stuck with him?

But then you hold his numbers on a last place team in 2016 against him? Why can't we ignore those but ignore Hutch's numbers in Florida this season? All numbers should count. You can't just cherry pick what is most convenient.

 

[Kiwi]

Let's do this again. How do you conclude that I am comparing the two with my statement "Not really. That kind of logic would support keeping Zaitsev over Giordano". Only somebody with grade school reading comprehension would paint my words as anything but a comparison of contrasts. Read slower next time.

You used one of the worst comparisons in the history of comparisons and still didn't get down to debunking the asset management narrative I was forwarding

That's some effort

 

[socko]

Doubling down on your mistakes is a sign of a guy who wasn't ready for the job. Hutch is better.

 

[saltming]

I'm not allowed to judge him in Florida? Why's that exactly? If I say he sucked there and that's why he cleared waivers I hardly see that as controversial

Sparks was playing the back half of b2b, he didn't get a consistent run of games that Hutchinson is getting right now, that also needs to be taken into account as well as Sparks win record and his HDCA%

Guess what? We don't have a depth issues if we don't put Sparks on waivers, no risk involved and why would you put yourself in a position where you don't have an actual #3 in case of emergency? Thats not particularly smart now is it if we just traded a 5th to get one 2 weeks ago

We choose Sparks as the backup, putting him on waivers now for Hutchinson is dumb

I understand the logic of not exposing sparks so we can lay that to rest.
Why should we evaluate a sub par goalie playing on a sub par team vs a sub par goalie playing on a top team when we can evaluate them both on the same team? That evens the playing field. If we are going to be looking at the 2 of them, that seems the fair way to do it to me. Either that or career records. Anything else to me seems like cherry picking because we have the opportunity to evaluate both under the same conditions.

 

[Kiwi]

I understand the logic of not exposing sparks so we can lay that to rest.
Why should we evaluate a sub par goalie playing on a sub par team vs a sub par goalie playing on a top team when we can evaluate them both on the same team? That evens the playing field. If we are going to be looking at the 2 of them, that seems the fair way to do it to me. Either that or career records. Anything else to me seems like cherry picking because we have the opportunity to evaluate both under the same conditions.

I think Hutchinson could be the better player, it still makes zero sense to waive Sparks however so he can be the backup

 

[saltming]

But then you hold his numbers on a last place team in 2016 against him? Why can't we ignore those but ignore Hutch's numbers in Florida this season? All numbers should count. You can't just cherry pick what is most convenient.

I'm not. I'm saying it's fair to evaluate both in the same situation because we can. Also I'm not omitting Hutchenson's time with Florida when I've said let's look at their career stats, nor did I say let's just look at sparks' stats from the tank year.
Also I do not evaluate goalies on win loss record as imo that's a team stat. Sv% is what I use. So either we level the playing field, judge them on the same team in the same system or look at their career numbers.
I would think cherry picking would be choosing a scenario which would be solely beneficial for my point, I'm looking for equality.

 

[saltming]

I think Hutchinson could be the better player, it still makes zero sense to waive Sparks however so he can be the backup

I do understand and see the logic of that thought train, but I also think the NHL is about winning and therefore the best team should play.
For me, the cost of losing sparks, if that happened, would be negligible. Finding a backup is tricky, but there are many of them flying around the league.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Leafs need 3 goalies in the system that can start an NHL game, Sparks will stay to seasons end unless Dubas trades for another and then spatks gets waived

 

[Notsince67]

You used one of the worst comparisons in the history of comparisons and still didn't get down to debunking the asset management narrative I was forwarding

That's some effort

You submitted a binary factor which was age without acknowledging any difference in skill. I pointed out a perfect example that shows that a 35 year old player can be more desirable than a person in his 20s. I actually smashed your position quite handily. Mcbackbup is better and age shouldn't have been the sole consideration for so so called good asset management position. Stop digging a hole

 

[DarkKnight]

How impressive is McBackup now 11-5-1 on a non playoff team.

 

[Polaris1010]

How impressive is McBackup now 11-5-1 on a non playoff team.

LoL!

Well there we go.

Whoever made the decision to get rid of McElhinney for two guys who are not as good, deserves a beating!

This is the point here.

Whoever made this minor decision to get rid of McElhinney, f***ed it up.

Now lets see how that person handles a major decision, will it be f***ed up too?

The chances are good that it will be f***ed up too.

 

[Kiwi]

I do understand and see the logic of that thought train, but I also think the NHL is about winning and therefore the best team should play.
For me, the cost of losing sparks, if that happened, would be negligible. Finding a backup is tricky, but there are many of them flying around the league.

Our starter has just missed 3 weeks with a groin injury and you want to potentially lose Sparks to waivers just as he gets back?

What happens if Andersen relapses? Or we get any other goalie injury?
Are we trading picks for another #3G?

Are we tanking in that situation? Looks a bit like it

You submitted a binary factor which was age without acknowledging any difference in skill. I pointed out a perfect example that shows that a 35 year old player can be more desirable than a person in his 20s. I actually smashed your position quite handily. Mcbackbup is better and age shouldn't have been the sole consideration for so so called good asset management position. Stop digging a hole

Age plays a large part, that also gets tied to potential upside if Sparks works out, that's a major part of the asset management angle, 6-2-1 in his first NHL season as a backup

McBackup is what he is, an old and very average backup that's having a couple of good years, big ******* deal, hfboards Leafs where any 35 year old plug will be looked on fondly if it means we don't actually have to feel a little pain as we try to develop our own talent

Spare me the Gio McBackup justification, Get better examples or just leave it out, I can kill off my own brain cells I don't need you helping it along

 

[Kiwi]

How impressive is McBackup now 11-5-1 on a non playoff team.

So? Why should we care, he's not Leafs property anymore
Are you going to quote Carrick and Leivo's numbers as well or just his?

 

[DarkKnight]

So? Why should we care, he's not Leafs property anymore
Are you going to quote Carrick and Leivo's numbers as well or just his?

I thought winning records were all that mattered when accessing things? I would have mentioned save percentage and goals against too but felt that would be piling on. And it's funny, because if Mc was struggling I suspect they'd be posted here. Hmmmm.

And since you mentioned it, getting a pulse for Leivo, losing Carrick so Holl can rot, not exactly feathers in our caps as it's turning out.

 

[saltming]

Our starter has just missed 3 weeks with a groin injury and you want to potentially lose Sparks to waivers just as he gets back?

What happens if Andersen relapses? Or we get any other goalie injury?
Are we trading picks for another #3G?

Are we tanking in that situation? Looks a bit like it



Age plays a large part, that also gets tied to potential upside if Sparks works out, that's a major part of the asset management angle, 6-2-1 in his first NHL season as a backup

McBackup is what he is, an old and very average backup that's having a couple of good years, big ******* deal, hfboards Leafs where any 35 year old plug will be looked on fondly if it means we don't actually have to feel a little pain as we try to develop our own talent

Spare me the Gio McBackup justification, Get better examples or just leave it out, I can kill off my own brain cells I don't need you helping it along

If any team loses there starter and backup they are in trouble.
If Andersen goes down again, I would rather Hutch fill in than sparks. If Hutch goes down we are screwed weather or not sparks is still in to organization or not.

 

[Notsince67]

Our starter has just missed 3 weeks with a groin injury and you want to potentially lose Sparks to waivers just as he gets back?

What happens if Andersen relapses? Or we get any other goalie injury?
Are we trading picks for another #3G?

Are we tanking in that situation? Looks a bit like it



Age plays a large part, that also gets tied to potential upside if Sparks works out, that's a major part of the asset management angle, 6-2-1 in his first NHL season as a backup

McBackup is what he is, an old and very average backup that's having a couple of good years, big ******* deal, hfboards Leafs where any 35 year old plug will be looked on fondly if it means we don't actually have to feel a little pain as we try to develop our own talent

Spare me the Gio McBackup justification, Get better examples or just leave it out, I can kill off my own brain cells I don't need you helping it along

Spare me the smarmy dismissal. The stupidity of your theories clearly has no bounds. Congratulations on doubling down yet again on a poorly thought out position. Your brain cells are clearly on their way.

 

[Cor]

I actually agree with @Kiwi that waiving Sparks right now doesn’t make sense. I would leave him on the bench, and bring Hutch up for the back-to-back games. At least for a bit, as Andy gets back to being comfortable. But for the playoffs. Hutch should be the backup.


However he’s off on McBackup. It’s fairly clear, even factoring in age, that he should of been kept. We still end up trading for Hutch most likely, which kinda just shows how easy it is to replace Sparks.


I just don’t know what people are expecting from Sparks. He’s won games, so I’m okay with him on the roster right now, but getting rid of better goalies to develop a guy into a backup role, when you can find backups on waivers or free agency, or minor trades, seems like it’s counterproductive.

It’s giving up the boat for the mystery box, because the mystery box.... well it could even be a boat, and we’ve always wanted one of those.

 

[diceman934]

It's called waivers, 2 guys had to go on waivers no matter what
We kept the younger guy, it was the correct decision

It was a 5th and we've got 2 4th's so that's a non issue and Hutchinson has already gone through waivers so even if he is sent down he's going nowhere

The best asset management is to keep both players by not putting Sparks through waivers

Wrong.

We did not need to put two goalies on Waivers at all one was the only one we needed to ask waivers on. It was among the worse roster decisions we have made in a while. We not only kept the worse goalie we shouod have kept two of them to then see just who was the better goalie. Sparks will not be in the NHL for long in my opinion. Then to have to use a draft pick to get another goalie makes it worse. The fact we have two 4th picks is not part of the equation at all.

I highly doubt Sparks gets claimed but if he does so what he is horrid. And you think it is no big deal to spend assests to get another one any way.

Babs will not comply as easy this time.

 

[DarkKnight]

I actually agree with @Kiwi that waiving Sparks right now doesn’t make sense. I would leave him on the bench, and bring Hutch up for the back-to-back games. At least for a bit, as Andy gets back to being comfortable. But for the playoffs. Hutch should be the backup.


However he’s off on McBackup. It’s fairly clear, even factoring in age, that he should of been kept. We still end up trading for Hutch most likely, which kinda just shows how easy it is to replace Sparks.


I just don’t know what people are expecting from Sparks. He’s won games, so I’m okay with him on the roster right now, but getting rid of better goalies to develop a guy into a backup role, when you can find backups on waivers or free agency, or minor trades, seems like it’s counterproductive.

It’s giving up the boat for the mystery box, because the mystery box.... well it could even be a boat, and we’ve always wanted one of those.

Good idea, with the exception you've just killed whatever confidence Sparks has by doing that, clearly shows the team doesn't have confidence in him. So, we are at the same end game I envision. Cutting him loose.

I don't think Hutch is amazing, and I actually expect a stinker coming. Still better than Sparks imho.

 

[DarkKnight]

Wrong.

We did not need to put two goalies on Waivers at all one was the only one we needed to ask waivers on. It was among the worse roster decisions we have made in a while. We not only kept the worse goalie we shouod have kept two of them to then see just who was the better goalie. Sparks will not be in the NHL for long in my opinion. Then to have to use a draft pick to get another goalie makes it worse. The fact we have two 4th picks is not part of the equation at all.

I highly doubt Sparks gets claimed but if he does so what he is horrid. And you think it is no big deal to spend assests to get another one any way.

Babs will not comply as easy this time.

I know one thing for sure, you won't get a 5th for him...and really doesn't that say it all.