Confirmed Trade: [TOR/CAR] Marleau, 2020 1st Rd. (Top 10 Prot.) & 2020 7th Rd. to CAR for 2020 6th Rd. [PART 2]

[ottawa]

If they get a pick between 11-15 they can draft a good player.

Who do you have from 16-20?

 

[mydnyte]

Right, they could finish 10th, have a team or 2 jump them in the lottery and end up w/ 11OA, which would then belong to CAR.

Edit-I am not really expecting TOR to miss the playoffs though, so I think the pick will end up in the 17-25 range, that's fine too.

they may just miss it this year... there is no room for error, and they still dont know how to back check, and have a cardboard cutout as a backup goalie

 

[CatchyTune]

Leafs drafted Liljegren 17th and I keep hearing he is going to be a top 4D so why can't the Canes hit with a 10-15 range pick?

I never said anything along those lines. I said they traded this pick thinking it would be 20+ with how last season went. Since the leafs struggled out of the gate I said worst case is carolina gets a really good prospect at 11th or so. It would take a heck of a prospect to make us regret trading the pick however, as we would have lost Kapanen+Johnsson

 

[CatchyTune]

The absolute worst case is Toronto handing Carolina the First OA pick in 2021.

I stand corrected

 

[Leaf Fans]

Who do you have from 16-20?

They could get a good player there too; the person I quoted was asking about 11-15 after quoting another poster.

 

[34]

Well, looks like the Leafs got KO'd on another trade. Carolina must be laughing.

 

[flying v 604]

I mean I dont mind having multiple superstars on my team. Its not like they dont deserve what they are being paid

Superstars? Nylander on pace for 57 points can't play D, Marner 5 goals and is turning into a liability without the puck, AM unless he scores is totally useless and Tavares is barely a ppg player over his career and has lost a step. What exactly makes any of them superstars? AM may one day live up to his contract but right now everyone of them is overpaid by a large amount. 11 mill for JT and his 2 seasons of ppg in his career doesn't equal 11 mill. AM makes a mill less than McJesus for goodness sakes. Market makes more than Rantanen, Kucherov, Drai, Aho etc. All tje while your not even able to afford a decent backup and need to sign 6 D with around 15 mill next summer.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Superstars? Nylander on pace for 57 points can't play D, Marner 5 goals and is turning into a liability without the puck, AM unless he scores is totally useless and Tavares is barely a ppg player over his career and has lost a step. What exactly makes any of them superstars? AM may one day live up to his contract but right now everyone of them is overpaid by a large amount. 11 mill for JT and his 2 seasons of ppg in his career doesn't equal 11 mill. AM makes a mill less than McJesus for goodness sakes. Market makes more than Rantanen, Kucherov, Drai, Aho etc. All tje while your not even able to afford a decent backup and need to sign 6 D with around 15 mill next summer.

Holl, Dermott, Liljegren, and Sandin will cost less than 8 mil combined, maybe as low as 6. So we have 7-9 mil to sign a #2D and get a backup. That's assuming we don't move Johnsson or Kapanen and replace them with one of the several NHL-ready wingers in the system and the cap doesn't increase.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I would not put it out of the realm that Askarov or another very good prospect dropping to 11-15 which looks like a realistic probability this year. Every draft has droppers that should have been picked earlier. Dobson is a player that comes to mind. Askarov is a good possibility. Good post.

Good, if not a GREAT post I must say. Your insight is so refreshing on this site. It's so nice to see someone who's just a hockey fan, not some biased cheerleader. We need more people like you here who aren't trying to provoke people while hiding behind moderators like a coward.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I suppose alot of toronto narrative said toronto was the team of the future. They had so much depth. They were going to win everything

As a boston fan, leaf fans and media were all gloaty about torontos superiority

Some of us started mentioning toronto had a very serious cap problem coming. We were mocked. I personally was told Toronto could trade some players. I was told its a good problem to have

So... here we are today.

There are some of us feeling vindicated

And apparantly quite a few of you very upset to be discussing this

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I suppose alot of toronto narrative said toronto was the team of the future. They had so much depth. They were going to win everything

As a boston fan, leaf fans and media were all gloaty about torontos superiority

Some of us started mentioning toronto had a very serious cap problem coming. We were mocked. I personally was told Toronto could trade some players. I was told its a good problem to have

So... here we are today.

There are some of us feeling vindicated

And apparantly quite a few of you very upset to be discussing this

Lou Lam is/was a cap nightmare. Sure, Dubas signed Marner to a silly contract but you'd be hard pressed to find many Leafs fans who praise Lou. But around here, hes a genius based on his time with the Islanders. You also read way too much into the media and quite frankly, you shouldn't be talking when you're amongst the most obnoxious fanbase in hockey. I respect the Bruins, it's a great organization, but the fanbase takes so much away from their accomplishments.

 

[NernieBichols]

In before Toronto misses the playoffs and gets ping pong ball 11

 

[Leaf Fans]

I suppose alot of toronto narrative said toronto was the team of the future. They had so much depth. They were going to win everything

As a boston fan, leaf fans and media were all gloaty about torontos superiority

Some of us started mentioning toronto had a very serious cap problem coming. We were mocked. I personally was told Toronto could trade some players. I was told its a good problem to have

So... here we are today.

There are some of us feeling vindicated

And apparantly quite a few of you very upset to be discussing this

Not me, Toronto is not out of it yet.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I think the Leafs can just give up a top 10 pick if they feel they will tank harder next year. Not saying that is happening.

Colorado can do the same thing.

 

[Leaf Fans]

No. The terms are set, and once the condition clears, if it is a top 10 pick, the 2021 1st pick will at that time be transferred to the Canes. If TML makes it to the playoffs, 2020 1st will be transferred to CAR at that moment, otherwise we'll have to wait until the lottery and the pick whichever it will be will be transferred at that moment.

If TML felt like giving the 2020 top 10 instead of 2021 1st, TML would have to try trade the 2020 to CAR for 2021, and CAR can decline.

While waiting for the regular season end/lottery for the condition to clear out, CAR can trade the encumbered-to-them TML conditional 2020 1st to someone else with the same condition, and it will be transferred to that third party unless the condition kicks in.

TML has no active option to alter the terms of the trade and no further say on which pick will be transferred.

This exactly.

 

[Leaf Fans]

.... You also read way too much into the media and quite frankly, you shouldn't be talking when you're amongst the most obnoxious fanbase in hockey. I respect the Bruins, it's a great organization, but the fanbase takes so much away from their accomplishments.

Every fan base has their obnoxious fan including ours. Though few bring out the bellyachers from other teams like our team does.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Lou Lam is/was a cap nightmare. Sure, Dubas signed Marner to a silly contract but you'd be hard pressed to find many Leafs fans who praise Lou. But around here, hes a genius based on his time with the Islanders. You also read way too much into the media and quite frankly, you shouldn't be talking when you're amongst the most obnoxious fanbase in hockey. I respect the Bruins, it's a great organization, but the fanbase takes so much away from their accomplishments.

Lou shat the bed with the 3rd year of the Marleau contract and Zaitsevs as well. There was no reason to sign a relatively unproven dman to that much money for that long.

However when Dubas came in and signed JT and bungled the Nylander situation it really compounded things and then forced the leafs into a corner where they had to give up picks to get out of their jam.

Trading for Muzzin wasn’t a terrible idea but I wouldn’t say it’s been a home run either. Barrie has been a disaster and they are both UFA at the end of the year. Will they get re-signed and if so to what amount? We all assume Barrie is gone but maybe Muzzin leaves too.

That d core which is already a big problem will once again need a big overhaul. Dubas will have some cap space to work with if they leave but you also can’t just have Rielly with a bunch of guys on ELCs.

Andersen has 1 more year on his deal. Rielly 2. They both will require healthy raises. Obviously a lot of time between now and then and things can look very different but it’s hard when you don’t have a lot of good value contracts to set precedents on your team and work from there. Leafs are kind of going the opposite route of that.

 

[Tripod]

Every fan base has their obnoxious fan including ours. Though few bring out the bellyachers from other teams like our team does.

A big chunk of it is because of the media. Like ranking Matthews as a top 10 player for 2 years before he has proven it over lots of guys who HAVE paid their dues. Or all the gloating that was done when the Leafs got Babcock. Or the gloating over "we can and we will".

Reality is, the Leafs fanbase is bigger than everyone else. So naturally, there will be more obnoxious fans too. Personally, when I think of the fan that has had to suffer since their last win, I can relate being a Flyers fan. Watching my team for almost 40 years and not seeing a Cup win is awful. But it's the Leafs fans that lack humbleness that most have the issue with. The ones that would almost be happier that they get to rub a win in people's face. Those are people that other fanbase don't want to see get gratification.

And honestly, when a non-Leaf fan up in Canada buys a Hockey News and has to look at this cover over and over, rooting AGAINST the Leafs becomes easier.

"Toronto will win the Stanley Cup. It's only a matter of when, and how many"

 

[CatchyTune]

Superstars? Nylander on pace for 57 points can't play D, Marner 5 goals and is turning into a liability without the puck, AM unless he scores is totally useless and Tavares is barely a ppg player over his career and has lost a step. What exactly makes any of them superstars? AM may one day live up to his contract but right now everyone of them is overpaid by a large amount. 11 mill for JT and his 2 seasons of ppg in his career doesn't equal 11 mill. AM makes a mill less than McJesus for goodness sakes. Market makes more than Rantanen, Kucherov, Drai, Aho etc. All tje while your not even able to afford a decent backup and need to sign 6 D with around 15 mill next summer.

Holy crap someones angry. Didnt I comment that like, weeks or even months ago? For what its worth I didnt mean Nylander I just meant Matthews/Tavares/Marner/Rielly. Rielly might have been a stretch but the man put up 20 goals and 72 points last year. Matthews was the first 40 goal rookie since... Ovechkin? I actually dont remember correct me if i'm wrong. If he didnt miss a little time in year 2 and 3 he would have 3 straight 40 goal seasons to start his career. I know that doesnt justify "superstar" but what he has already accomplished at 22 is pretty darn good. He 100% deserves the money he is signed for. Tavares has also been a consistent #1C his whole career and really took off last year once he got a star winger next to him in Marner, who also had 94 points as a 21 year old. So yeah, whether or not you want to call Tavares' career a "superstar" I dont know. I wouldnt say Marner is a bonafide superstar yet but 94 points at 21 is a great start. But I know everyone has their different definition of "superstar". I think a "superstar" is a franchise piece at that position. Although I dont want to get into semantics

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Lou shat the bed with the 3rd year of the Marleau contract and Zaitsevs as well. There was no reason to sign a relatively unproven dman to that much money for that long.

However when Dubas came in and signed JT and bungled the Nylander situation it really compounded things and then forced the leafs into a corner where they had to give up picks to get out of their jam.

Trading for Muzzin wasn’t a terrible idea but I wouldn’t say it’s been a home run either. Barrie has been a disaster and they are both UFA at the end of the year. Will they get re-signed and if so to what amount? We all assume Barrie is gone but maybe Muzzin leaves too.

That d core which is already a big problem will once again need a big overhaul. Dubas will have some cap space to work with if they leave but you also can’t just have Rielly with a bunch of guys on ELCs.

Andersen has 1 more year on his deal. Rielly 2. They both will require healthy raises. Obviously a lot of time between now and then and things can look very different but it’s hard when you don’t have a lot of good value contracts to set precedents on your team and work from there. Leafs are kind of going the opposite route of that.

I don't disagree with what you said in your post. It's just frustrating that on this site Lou is praised as a genius when he made some awful moves. He made some good moves too but in the end left us with horrible contracts in Marleau and Zaitsev, whom was a roll of the dice at the time. Not to mention the stupidity of trading 2nds for rentals in Boyle and Plekanec. The Leafs do need an overhaul on defense but wont strictly lean on ELC's next year. Theres Rielly, Dermott, hopefully Muzzin comes back and Holl likely re-signs(hes been great). Liljegren and Sandin are those ELC's you're talking about and both look great this year. Everything isnt peachy but it's also not a sure-fire if Muzzin leaves. Barrie is as good as gone and was from day one. Guaranteed he gets a massive payday on July 1. I like Barrie but hes not a $8 million dollar dman. Which some sucker GM will give him.

 

[inthewings]

It’s not about the thread. It’s just an interesting commentary on the MO of a certain poster who is a fan of the isles who became obsessed with this top 10 protected from a team that is above the sharks. But has no interest in the sharks giving up their pick straight up

So he doesn’t like the leafs and finds it fun to track this thread because of it. What’s the problem?

 

[Man Bear Pig]

So he doesn’t like the leafs and finds it fun to track this thread because of it. What’s the problem?

Because it's not about the draft picks. You'd have to be blind not to see that. Theres a long history there.

 

[inthewings]

Because it's not about the draft picks. You'd have to be blind not to see that. Theres a long history there.

It clearly is about the draft picks. He dislikes the leafs, wants the pick to be high, and uses this thread to discuss that as the season unfolds. Again, what’s the issue with him discussing a transaction that’s interesting to him? If it’s not interesting to you, don’t open the thread, right?

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Lou Lam is/was a cap nightmare. Sure, Dubas signed Marner to a silly contract but you'd be hard pressed to find many Leafs fans who praise Lou. But around here, hes a genius based on his time with the Islanders. You also read way too much into the media and quite frankly, you shouldn't be talking when you're amongst the most obnoxious fanbase in hockey. I respect the Bruins, it's a great organization, but the fanbase takes so much away from their accomplishments.

On a personal note, toronto is my second favorite team. I dont fanatically cheer them but i listen tons to their radio shows and follow them alot

I did wish for them to get better for the past 30 some years

Its just... they got obnixious way way way too soon. At least win a playoff round first... at minimum

I find boston sports fans very obnoxious... but they have a crap load of championship banners in the rafters

Edmonton and vancouver fans also seem overly obnoxious. I have way more paitence for edmonton fans over the age of 50 because they were alive the last time Edmonton was relevent

I will take a moment to remind edmonton fans their team is playing 500 hockey the last 22 games now and is not good

I chose to follow boston in 1975 when i was 7 years old. Stuck with them in good times and bad... but there hasnt been any bad times that lasted longer than 2 years

If we are obnixious... we actually do have good reason

 

[Man Bear Pig]

It clearly is about the draft picks. He dislikes the leafs, wants the pick to be high, and uses this thread to discuss that as the season unfolds. Again, what’s the issue with him discussing a transaction that’s interesting to him? If it’s not interesting to you, don’t open the thread, right?

It's not about interest though. How is this not obvious to you? Hes not interested, hes here to ruffle feathers. It's not about discussion of draft picks, at all. It is interesting to me, it's the team I cheer for. It's just funny how certain posters Cherry pick certain threads to bump when things arent going well for that specific team. Do I need to explain this any further or will you defer back to "just dont open the thread"?