Proposal: Tor-Ana

13pacheco31

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Why would the Leafs trade a 28 year old top 4 defenceman, signed for 3 years at $2m; for a guy who in the best case ends up on LTIR, or in a worst-case, occupies close to $7m in cap space?
He's a bottom pairing guy occupying a top 4 spot by default right now. Again, this is under the assumption that the Leafs were to sign Pietrangelo. Isn't Kesler considered done?
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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He's a bottom pairing guy occupying a top 4 spot by default right now. Again, this is under the assumption that the Leafs were to sign Pietrangelo. Isn't Kesler considered done?
Hakanpaa , hunter drew and Curran (Curran is lhd but prefers to play right side) are rhd... and larsson and mahura can play on right side with limited mins
 
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seanlinden

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He's a bottom pairing guy occupying a top 4 spot by default right now. Again, this is under the assumption that the Leafs were to sign Pietrangelo. Isn't Kesler considered done?

The Leafs value Holl as a top 4 guy... he was very solid in that position this year.

Again, if they're signing Pietrangelo, that's 1 top 4 RHD, they're not going to trade the other one who happens to make $2m... and they're certainly not going to do it for the privilige of having Kesler on LTIR.

Assuming that Kesler is indeed done and that its just a matter of paying whatever portion of his contract is not insured plus the headache of dealing with LTIR for the next 2 years, think something along the lines of:
Kesler, Manson for a 2nd Round Pick
or (if the Leafs are signing Pietrangelo)
Kesler, Steel for a 3rd
 

WhatTheDuck

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The Leafs value Holl as a top 4 guy... he was very solid in that position this year.

Again, if they're signing Pietrangelo, that's 1 top 4 RHD, they're not going to trade the other one who happens to make $2m... and they're certainly not going to do it for the privilige of having Kesler on LTIR.

Assuming that Kesler is indeed done and that its just a matter of paying whatever portion of his contract is not insured plus the headache of dealing with LTIR for the next 2 years, think something along the lines of:
Kesler, Manson for a 2nd Round Pick
or (if the Leafs are signing Pietrangelo)
Kesler, Steel for a 3rd

Uh what? For what Kesler costs the Ducks, they sure as heck aren't giving up a piece like Steel to dump him, or selling low on Manson.

1.375 for this year and next, if it cost more than a 4th or equivalent prospect to dump him we'd probably rather just keep the asset.
 

seanlinden

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Uh what? For what Kesler costs the Ducks, they sure as heck aren't giving up a piece like Steel to dump him, or selling low on Manson.

1.375 for this year and next, if it cost more than a 4th or equivalent prospect to dump him we'd probably rather just keep the asset.

I don't think any of us are really prepared to comment on how willing the Ducks are to pay Kesler a $1.3m to not play for them. We know a lot of teams have a mandate to reduce payroll -- and obviously do not know if the Ducks are in that group, and if they are, to what extent reductions are being demanded.
 

WhatTheDuck

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I don't think any of us are really prepared to comment on how willing the Ducks are to pay Kesler a $1.3m to not play for them. We know a lot of teams have a mandate to reduce payroll -- and obviously do not know if the Ducks are in that group, and if they are, to what extent reductions are being demanded.

I'm quite prepared to say that both your suggestions were absurd. The Ducks value Steel and Manson both a lot more than that, and the value to dump Kesler should not be anywhere near that.
 

seanlinden

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I'm quite prepared to say that both your suggestions were absurd. The Ducks value Steel and Manson both a lot more than that, and the value to dump Kesler should not be anywhere near that.

I'm sure they value Manson or Steel a lot more than a 2nd or 3rd round pick... but unless you're in the Ducks front office, I don't think you're qualified to comment on just how badly they need to drop Ryan Kesler's contract.
 

WhatTheDuck

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I'm sure they value Manson or Steel a lot more than a 2nd or 3rd round pick... but unless you're in the Ducks front office, I don't think you're qualified to comment on just how badly they need to drop Ryan Kesler's contract.

The value suggested in your proposals is equal to or greater than what the late 1st the Leafs thought they were giving up to dump Marleau. You can repeat this "you're not in the front office" schtick, but one does not need to be in this case. You are absurdly overvaluing how badly the Ducks would ever need to shed that 1.3M.


The quotes from NHL GMs on Manson - "Murray loves him more than you love your wife"....."Murray has been telling teams to make a tremendous offer or not bother calling". None of that computes with dumping him for next to nothing in order to save some money.
 

Spazkat

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I'm sure they value Manson or Steel a lot more than a 2nd or 3rd round pick... but unless you're in the Ducks front office, I don't think you're qualified to comment on just how badly they need to drop Ryan Kesler's contract.

You don't need some special qualifications to figure out that if the Ducks really needed to drop the small amount of his contract not covered by LTIR, the likelihood is that they will pay someone a mid round pick to take it. There are *always* teams with some cap space willing to take on a dead contract/LTIR for picks

They certainly aren't going to throw their better trade chips into the deal just to bring in a bottom pairing D.
 

seanlinden

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You don't need some special qualifications to figure out that if the Ducks really needed to drop the small amount of his contract not covered by LTIR, the likelihood is that they will pay someone a mid round pick to take it. There are *always* teams with some cap space willing to take on a dead contract/LTIR for picks

They certainly aren't going to throw their better trade chips into the deal just to bring in a bottom pairing D.

The concept of spending $1m in cash to get a $5m cap hit to reach the cap I don't believe applies this summer.

The cap floor is $60.2m.

As of right now, there are only 6 teams who have less than $64.5m in committed contracts:
- Florida with 13 contracts at $60.5m
- Colorado with 14 contracts at $59.1m
- New Jersey with 13 contracts at $55.2m
- Buffalo with 10 contracts at $47m
- Detroit with 11 contracts at $46.8m
- Ottawa with 10 contracts at $42m.

Of those, Florida, Colorado, New Jersey will easily hit the floor simply by filling out their roster.

That leaves Buffalo, Detroit, and Ottawa as the teams who are at risk of being below the floor -- and they're likely to have quite a few teams looking to offload high cap hit players to them.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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The your team is broke justification for a bad trade falls flat when you're talking about a $1-$2 mil range in cash savings or whatever Toronto can afford offer in the context of its own cap issues.
 
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dracom

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I'm sure they value Manson or Steel a lot more than a 2nd or 3rd round pick... but unless you're in the Ducks front office, I don't think you're qualified to comment on just how badly they need to drop Ryan Kesler's contract.
And you’re qualified to make those comments? Lol
 

duckpuck

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Larsson, Djoos, Guhle have all played both sides, Hakanpaa is a RHD and Curran is a LHD who primarily plays right side. We have plenty of bottom pairing options period, arguably a bit of a log jam if we don't want to lose any of them to waivers.

Agree with the above and also would point out that Fowler has also played on the right side to accommodate a younger LHD.

The more I look at the roster, I don't think the ducks are looking to add NHL ready RHD. It seems they signed Curran (2 year deal) to play as the third pairing/PP RHD and would give him every chance to prove himself there before making other moves (with Hakanpaa as another option). They're happy with Manson and Gudbranson as the top RHD - though either could eventually be traded. If he plays as well as he did last year, Gud could be a nice trading chip at the next deadline.

The above approach fits with Bob Murray's tendency to assemble his roster and "see what he has" before making changes. Barring a major opportunity to acquire an elite player at a good value (i.e., Murray's preferred "hockey trade"), I think any deals would be for futures more than NHL d-men. In the hockey trade category, they could move out Larsson or Guhle to balance the logjam at LHD.
 

Duck Off

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Trading Manson for Nylander is something Anaheim should consider if an opportunity presents itself, but even if the value is good, this isn’t something we should be doing. Like it or not, we have a lot riding on Steel. We need to see what he does this next year.
 

JustJokinenAround

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I'm sure they value Manson or Steel a lot more than a 2nd or 3rd round pick... but unless you're in the Ducks front office, I don't think you're qualified to comment on just how badly they need to drop Ryan Kesler's contract.
as bad as the contract is, they do have 13 forwards, 7 defenceman, and gibson with stolarz (maybe backup) all under contract for the next season. next year getzlaf is up, backes' and gudbranson's deal expire, then perry's buyout goes down $4 million. now i'm sure they don't want to pay out the money to kesler but they are going to be retooling/rebuilding, they don't necessarily need to let go of assets to get rid of his money. they can ride out this year, after this year its not so bad.
 

seanlinden

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as bad as the contract is, they do have 13 forwards, 7 defenceman, and gibson with stolarz (maybe backup) all under contract for the next season. next year getzlaf is up, backes' and gudbranson's deal expire, then perry's buyout goes down $4 million. now i'm sure they don't want to pay out the money to kesler but they are going to be retooling/rebuilding, they don't necessarily need to let go of assets to get rid of his money. they can ride out this year, after this year its not so bad.

Again, do you have any inside information about what the Ducks budget is this year? or are you just speculating that "they can ride out this year"....

What if, the Ducks ownership says -- our hard limit for salary expenditure this year is $55m -- a number they can acheive due to several players with bigger cap hits than salary (notably Getzlaf, Backes, Fowler, Gudbranson & Lindholm).

All of a sudden, that proposal of Kesler & Manson for a 2nd round pick doesn't seem so bad. Yeah, Manson on his own gets better much better than a 2nd, but you shed $5.7m in cash commitments, bringing you down to basically $58m in cash commitments. Trade a guy like Rakell for more value, and you're there.
 

13pacheco31

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Ya people seem to forget how much Anaheim management loves Manson... he’s not going to go for some cheap spare parts that’d for sure
Perhaps no one actually takes that seriously? Seriously, I don't know why you guys hype him up so much, he's not even good.
 

Spazkat

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Not at all. I'm saying those are probably the rough parameters of a deal that would make sense for Toronto.


Honestly, how does it make any sense at all that a rebuilding team would strip itself of young assets/high picks/prime trade chips to get rid of an almost fully insured LTIR contract? That's the sort of stupidity and bad asset management that gets GM's fired

Perhaps no one actually takes that seriously? Seriously, I don't know why you guys hype him up so much, he's not even good.

Its not Ducks fans constantly filling up the boards trying to get rid of him. You might not think hes very good, and thats fine. I would suggest arguing that point with the posters who keep starting the "Manson to TOR" threads, rather than the Ducks fans who are merely saying "we're not giving him to you for scraps".
 

LuckyDucky

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Perhaps no one actually takes that seriously? Seriously, I don't know why you guys hype him up so much, he's not even good.
You do realize what the poster you quoted is referring to quotes from individuals outside of the Ducks organization? Literally all that is being said, is that the Ducks organization really likes Manson.
 

WhatTheDuck

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Again, do you have any inside information about what the Ducks budget is this year? or are you just speculating that "they can ride out this year"....

What if, the Ducks ownership says -- our hard limit for salary expenditure this year is $55m -- a number they can acheive due to several players with bigger cap hits than salary (notably Getzlaf, Backes, Fowler, Gudbranson & Lindholm).

All of a sudden, that proposal of Kesler & Manson for a 2nd round pick doesn't seem so bad. Yeah, Manson on his own gets better much better than a 2nd, but you shed $5.7m in cash commitments, bringing you down to basically $58m in cash commitments. Trade a guy like Rakell for more value, and you're there.

It's utterly ridiculous and you should give it up already. From every indication Murray likely wouldn't give up Manson for fair market value. He's definitely not letting him go for 25 cents on the dollar in order to shed Kesler, you have the blue and white blinders on big time.

If Toronto actually ponied up enough to pry Manson out of Bob Murray's hands, maybe at that point the two sides could agree to a mutually beneficial swap of real dollars for cap space (ie retaining some on Manson for no extra charge in exchange for taking Kesler)

Toronto takes on Kesler at 1.375M ×2 (real dollars owed after insurance). Anaheim retains 20% on Manson. Ducks save just over 1M total in real dollars (split over two years) compared to selling him outright with no retention and keeping Kesler. Toronto flexes some financial muscle in order to get Manson at 3.28M × 2 years for the same price he would have cost them at 4.1M
 
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Zegs2sendhelp

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Perhaps no one actually takes that seriously? Seriously, I don't know why you guys hype him up so much, he's not even good.
I talk down Manson more than prob anyone on these forums duck fans and non duck fans Included.... but Manson serves a purpose and is still a legit top 4 guy with the ability to compliment a good dman like rielly or lindholm and can play the tough mins in the tough areas. The quote is from an insider talking about what it would cost a team to get Manson. I’ll take his word over some leafs fan from a hockey forum

Then again we’re talking to leaf fans who pump up rielly, who actually might be the most overrated dman in the league
 
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