Top workhorse goalies by winning percentage

Absolut

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Any list where Vasilevskiy is not a top workhorse but Kinkaid is... is just laghable. But good try to pump your guy.
 
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OvermanKingGainer

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There are a couple other guys who almost play enough to qualify, and are also over .500:
(Vasilevsky, 36 games, Rittich, 34 games, Bishop 34 games, etc but their teams don't seem to trust them as much as the above guys for whatever reason, to play them 2/3rds of their teams games.)

those two players play on the #1 and #2 teams in goals per game and can afford to play their backup and still win. It's not about trust, it's about having goalies rested and fresh for April, May, June instead of fatigued.
 

Mickey Marner

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A .718 W% with a .899 SV% and a .455 QS%.

I didn't know Martin Jones played for the mid-80's Oilers. There was a Devils fan who had some project where he was viewing every goal against and ranking goalies on the amount of bad goals against. I believe Jones was leading as of November or so. I imagine his lead is insurmountable at this point.
 

AaronDellForPrez

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Any list where Vasilevskiy is not a top workhorse but Kinkaid is... is just laghable. But good try to pump your guy.

Vasilevskiy was injured for a bit, as someone pointed out - only reason Kinkaid has had more decisions.

But good try to pump your guy.

I know! I knew he was considerably better than his save % at this point in the season would indicate, but I didn't realize there was such a good stat on TSN to show it. It's just pretty cool. :)
 

Doctor No

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I know! I knew he was considerably better than his save % at this point in the season would indicate, but I didn't realize there was such a good stat on TSN to show it. It's just pretty cool. :)

Hopefully, other goaltenders see Jones' success and convince their teammates to score a lot of goals, too. He really is an innovator.

As far as the "good stat on TSN", you could have saved yourself a lot of time and just shared the team standings (which also appear on TSN). The Sharks are a good team, and Martin Jones is their goaltender.
 

LordZapp

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I thought this was an interesting list:

It shows the top 14 workhorse goalies by winning pct (minimum 40 games, i.e. 2/3 of a teams games to this point, to qualify)

There seem to be a few levels for these ironmen:

Andersen and Jones seem to be in a class by themselves.

Then after a significant dropoff, there's another small group of consistently good goalies (Hellebuyck, Bobrovsky, Fleury)

After another significant dropoff there is just Cary Price, still above .500, so still decent.

But after those 6 top guys, there are zero other goalies, who've played 2/3rds of their teams games, over .500.
GamesWLOTLWin Pct%
Frederik Andersen, GTOR41271220.658
Martin Jones, GSJ44281140.636
Connor Hellebuyck, GWPG45261620.577
Sergei Bobrovsky, GCBJ42241710.571
Marc-Andre Fleury, GVGS51291840.568
Carey Price, GMTL44231550.522
Jacob Markstrom, GVAN45221760.488
Braden Holtby, GWSH41201440.487
Pekka Rinne, GNSH41201530.487
Devan Dubnyk, GMIN48212050.437
Jimmy Howard, GDET40171550.425
Henrik Lundqvist, GNYR40161580.4
Keith Kinkaid, GNJ40151760.375
John Gibson, GANA46171980.369
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
There are a couple other guys who almost play enough to qualify, and are also over .500:
(Vasilevsky, 36 games, Rittich, 34 games, Bishop 34 games, etc but their teams don't seem to trust them as much as the above guys for whatever reason, to play them 2/3rds of their teams games.)
Vasi missed a fair amount to injury at the start of the season or he would undoubtedly be top 5.
 

radapex

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Sep 21, 2012
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Even harder when you're using your own hidden definition that isn't what anyone else uses (both not doing this as a points-based measure, and in including games where the goaltender didn't get the decision in the denominator).

I'm not sure what definition you use, but the definition of win% is very simply the number of wins divided by the number of games played.
 

radapex

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Sep 21, 2012
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Some of your win % numbers are wrong. Look at Holtby (20-14-4) and Rinne (20-15-3), both are clearly over .500 but the numbers you have are .4XX.

There are no decisions involved, which means they were not the goalie of record when the game winning goal was scored.

upload_2019-2-18_22-15-5.png


Clearly 38 (20+15+3) equals neither 40 (games started) nor 41 (games played -- meaning 1 relief appearance).
 

ottawa

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I thought HF said Carey Price was done and should just retire.

It's almost as if adding a #1 defenseman (Weber) to a group of 3rd pairing defensemen + Petry had a positive effect.
 

Hellraising Senator

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Feb 15, 2017
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Hey, cool. I hadn't realized that the GP wasn't just a sum of the others. I see it now. I really appreciate you pointing that out. I feel a little dumb not having realized it!

Comes in makes fun of people saying maths is hard, fails to realize not only is his math wrong, his reading comprehension skills are weak.

Fits the mould for his user name...
 

TomasHertlsRooster

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A .718 W% with a .899 SV% and a .455 QS%.

I didn't know Martin Jones played for the mid-80's Oilers. There was a Devils fan who had some project where he was viewing every goal against and ranking goalies on the amount of bad goals against. I believe Jones was leading as of November or so. I imagine his lead is insurmountable at this point.

I don’t think Jones was actually that close to the top.

@Bleedred
 
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Bleedred

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A .718 W% with a .899 SV% and a .455 QS%.

I didn't know Martin Jones played for the mid-80's Oilers. There was a Devils fan who had some project where he was viewing every goal against and ranking goalies on the amount of bad goals against. I believe Jones was leading as of November or so. I imagine his lead is insurmountable at this point.
That is me who is counting and doing the project, but I don't believe I ever had him leading. He's not been QUITE as bad as his save percentage, but he's been BAD. He's already allowed 2 soft goals out of 4 in total tonight and both of the two goals he allowed the other night against Vancouver were trash. One area that I'm noticing that's a real weakness is any time the other team has a breakaway, he's probably allowing a goal 80% of the time or more and he's almost always beaten on the same move. Not mean of those goals have I counted as ''Stoppable'' on him, but that's another explanation for probably why he allows even more goals and why his save percentage is worse than he might look on the eye test. Because he can't stop a breakaway more than once in a while and always gets beaten by the same move.
 

Bleedred

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I will say this much, Andersen has probably been the best goalie in the league this year by my eye test and stoppable goal count. Vasilevskiy has been good, Lehner has been good, Rinne has been pretty good, Gibson has been a bit better than his numbers would suggest (which only came cratering a couple weeks before he got injured and probably got sick of playing for Carlyle and gave up on him, long after everyone else gave up on him) and surprisingly, Marc Andre Fleury has looked considerably better to me than his save percentage, which is right at league average. Subban hasn't looked that bad either, so I don't understand why they (mostly) refuse to play Subban and get Fleury some rest sometimes.
 

TomasHertlsRooster

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Jones 4 goals on 12 shots may still get the win tonight. Laughable time to start this thread

He found a way to screw the team over with a .700 save percentage. Still got an overtime loss.

OP should create a graph which plots save percentage against winning percentage. There would be a strong correlation and Jones would be a huge outlier with a fantastic points percentage and terrible save percentage.
 
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Bleedred

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He found a way to screw the team over with a .700 save percentage. Still got an overtime loss.

OP should create a graph which plots save percentage against winning percentage. There would be a strong correlation and Jones would be a huge outlier with a fantastic points percentage and terrible save percentage.
The sad part is that if Jones leads the league in wins this year (and he just might) and he has a sub-900% save percentage, he might actually get on Vezina vote. Of course he'll never win it over a guy like Andersen, Vasilevskiy or Lehner. He won't be near the top 3, but he might get one vote. If he gets one, you know it came from Doug Wilson. That's the first thing I think when someone questionable shows up with a single Vezina vote. That it was his team's GM. Like with that year that stupid AHL Hamburger guy got a single Vezina vote after his fluke run. No matter how good he is, who the hell else is giving him a Vezina vote with only 24 games played and 23 starts? Or like last year when Luongo got one Vezina vote for 35 games and 33 starts, while John Gibson got none?
 

TomasHertlsRooster

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I just made this but I figured it would be interesting to add here.

Picture1.png


The x-axis is a goaltender's points percentage (using TSN's "winning percentage" which includes OTLs) and the y-axis is Moneypuck's save percentage above expected statistic. This includes the starting goaltender (as adjudged by most games) on all 31 teams. There is a very strong trend between a goaltender's save% above expected and a goaltender's points percentage.

There is no outlier in either direction quite like Martin Jones. Statistically speaking, Martin Jones is a terrible goaltender being carried by an elite team. All other terrible goaltenders like Jones are well out of a playoff spot. The 5 goaltenders that are top-5 in save% above expected all play for teams that are top-6 in the NHL in points percentage. The other team in the top-6 have Martin Jones who is 6th from last in save% above expected.

(Note that for Chicago and Edmonton, games played were equal between Ward/Crawford and Talbot/Koskinen, so I took the average of their save% above expected and points percentage.)
 

Bleedred

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I just made this but I figured it would be interesting to add here.

Picture1.png


The x-axis is a goaltender's points percentage (using TSN's "winning percentage" which includes OTLs) and the y-axis is Moneypuck's save percentage above expected statistic. This includes the starting goaltender (as adjudged by most games) on all 31 teams. There is a very strong trend between a goaltender's save% above expected and a goaltender's points percentage.

There is no outlier in either direction quite like Martin Jones. Statistically speaking, Martin Jones is a terrible goaltender being carried by an elite team. All other terrible goaltenders like Jones are well out of a playoff spot. The 5 goaltenders that are top-5 in save% above expected all play for teams that are top-6 in the NHL in points percentage. The other team in the top-6 have Martin Jones who is 6th from last in save% above expected.

(Note that for Chicago and Edmonton, games played were equal between Ward/Crawford and Talbot/Koskinen, so I took the average of their save% above expected and points percentage.)
Stop scapegoating the goalie bro!

It's not like Jones plays in front of a better team than Craig Anderson tho!
 

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