Top ten players for each franchise?

[The Panther]

Ted Lindsay should not be under-rated, that's for sure. He was a really great player. Lindsay was the best LW in the game from 1947 through 1957. And no, it wasn't from riding Howe's coattails -- for example, in 1948 Lindsay led the NHL with 33 goals, while Howe had 16. Lindsay also easily outscored Howe in '49 and '50, winning the Art Ross in the latter season. He was top-3 in scoring six times, top-3 in goals four times, and led the NHL in assists twice (quite rare for left wingers). For the Wings' fourth Cup, he had 19 points in 11 playoff games. He also did all this while being the biggest pain in the ass on the ice anybody had ever seen prior to Claude Lemieux.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Ted Lindsay should not be under-rated, that's for sure. He was a really great player. Lindsay was the best LW in the game from 1947 through 1957. And no, it wasn't from riding Howe's coattails -- for example, in 1948 Lindsay led the NHL with 33 goals, while Howe had 16. Lindsay also easily outscored Howe in '49 and '50, winning the Art Ross in the latter season. He was top-3 in scoring six times, top-3 in goals four times, and led the NHL in assists twice (quite rare for left wingers). For the Wings' fourth Cup, he had 19 points in 11 playoff games. He also did all this while being the biggest pain in the ass on the ice anybody had ever seen prior to Claude Lemieux.

Sounds a lot like an even better version of what Marchand has been the past few years.

 

[tinyzombies]

Not even close:

Lindsay: 5'8"/160
Hart voting - 4th(1949), 5th(1948), 6th(1947), 6th(1950), 7th(1959), 10th(1956)
Points finishes: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 7th, 9th
Goals finishes: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 6th, 6th, 6th, 9th
Assist finishes: 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 9th

All Star LW for 9 straight seasons:
1st Team All Star in 1948, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957
2nd Team All Star in 1949
4x SC

Play-off Points - 1st(1952), 2nd(1949), 2nd(1955), 5th(1950), 6th(1953), 6th(1954), 7th(1956), 10th(1957)
Play-off Goals - 1st(1952), 3rd(1956), 4th(1950), 4th(1954), 4th(1955), 5th(1953), 6th(1948), 7th(1965), 9th(1957), 10th(1949)
Play-off Assists - 1st(1949), 1st(1955), 6th(1954), 8th(1950), 8th(1953), 9th(1957), 10th(1952)


5 Year Peak: 1948 to 1952
2nd in Points, 97% of 1st place Gordie Howe
3rd in Goals, 89% of 2nd place Maurice Richard
1st in Assists, 105% of 2nd place Gordie Howe

3rd in Play-off Points, 82% of 2nd place Ted Kennedy

10 Year Peak: 1948 to 1957
2nd in Points, 85% of 1st place Gordie Howe
3rd in Goals, 81% of 2nd place Maurice Richard
2nd in Assists, 91% of 1st place Gordie Howe

2nd in Play-off Points, 95% of 1st place Gordie Howe


Scoring Percentages:
Points - 116, 113, 110, 102, 100, 100, 89, 87, 70, 70, 67, 55, 51

Best 6 Seasons: 641
Next 6 Seasons: 438

"defensive ability" - Frank Orr
"ability to get under the skin of opponents" - Frank Orr
"(We could all) could shoot and score, everybody could carry the puck, and everybody's full intent was, "if I had to hit somebody, I would do so."" - Gordie Howe

Marchand: 5'9"/181 (needs to be updated)
Stanley Cup (2011)
1st in playoff EV goals (2010-11)
6th in goals (2015-16)
1st in goals, World Cup of Hockey 2016
4th in goals (2016-17)
5th in points (2016-17)
2016-17 NHL All-Star Team (1st)

Since Marchand’s first full season in 2010-11, through February 20, 2017-18 he ranks high in several categories among NHL players.

1st in plus-minus (+185)
1st in shorthanded goals (23) and in shorthanded points (36)
1st in backhand goals (49) and backhand shooting percentage (29.3%)
6th in shooting percentage (16.1%)

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i mean, ted lindsay was like a meaner bryan trottier who played left wing right?

 

[tinyzombies]

i mean, ted lindsay was like a meaner bryan trottier who played left wing right?

Trottier had higher Hart finishes, Lindsay had better goals/assists/points finishes.

---

Trottier

Born: July 17, 1956
Position: C
Height: 5-11
Weight: 195 lbs

Top 10 Finishes

Goals: 5, 5, 8
Assists: 1, 1, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 8
Points: 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 10

Goals-Per-Game: 5, 6
Assists-Per-Game: 1, 1, 3, 4, 5, 9, 9, 10
Points-Per-Game: 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9

Link to Bryan Trottier's h-r page: Bryan Trottier Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

7 Best Seasons VsX Score:

93.7

Awards

Won the Art Ross Trophy in 78-79
Won the Conn Smythe Trophy in 79-80
Won the Stanley Cup in 79-80, 80-81, 81-82, 82-83, 90-91 and 91-92
Won the Hart Memorial Trophy in 78-79

Hart Memorial Trophy Finishes: 1, 2, 2, 3, 5
Frank J. Selke Trophy Finishes: 2, 8, 8, 10

All-Star Team Selections

1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th

New York Islanders Top Playoff Scorers in the Dynasty Years


Bryan Trottier led the playoffs in scoring two times.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

i've never done a side by side analysis, but doing that right now,

madden: 712 games (297 pts)
holik: 786 games (472 pts)

madden: selke record of 1, 2, 2, 2, 5
holik: led the team in scoring (+ peak selke finish of 5)

madden: best offensive years are 20/50 (3x), typical year is 15/30
holik: best offensive years are 30/60 (3x), typical year is 20/50

we don't know holik's pre-'99 icetime, but from that point on, his last four nj years are pretty close to madden's icetime after his first three seasons

i might side with holik too, but what makes you see significant distance between them?

The scoring difference is very large between them.

Holik wasn't a penalty killer, which is why he did so poorly in Selke voting. At even strength, he was very close to Madden defensively, probably better than Madden against large centers, not as good against small and fast ones.

Holik was a top 2 center on the team from 1995-96 to 1998-99, sometimes miscast as a #1, but he was a solid #2 C. Holik was pushed down the depth chart in 1999-00 by the emergences of Arnott and Gomez.

Basically Madden wins easily on PK, Holik easily on PP. I tend to favor Holik at even strength because of 1995-96 to 1998-99. (Counterargument - Holik was not very good in the playoffs when he had more of a scoring role).

 

[Ivo]

Bruins:

Orr
Bourque
Shore
Esposito
Chara
Bergeron
Neely
Brimsek
Schmidt
Bucyk

Dit Clapper should be there, probably instead of Neely, if we’re talking career.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Not even close:

Lindsay: 5'8"/160
Hart voting - 4th(1949), 5th(1948), 6th(1947), 6th(1950), 7th(1959), 10th(1956)
Points finishes: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 7th, 9th
Goals finishes: 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 6th, 6th, 6th, 9th
Assist finishes: 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 9th

All Star LW for 9 straight seasons:
1st Team All Star in 1948, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957
2nd Team All Star in 1949
4x SC

Play-off Points - 1st(1952), 2nd(1949), 2nd(1955), 5th(1950), 6th(1953), 6th(1954), 7th(1956), 10th(1957)
Play-off Goals - 1st(1952), 3rd(1956), 4th(1950), 4th(1954), 4th(1955), 5th(1953), 6th(1948), 7th(1965), 9th(1957), 10th(1949)
Play-off Assists - 1st(1949), 1st(1955), 6th(1954), 8th(1950), 8th(1953), 9th(1957), 10th(1952)


5 Year Peak: 1948 to 1952
2nd in Points, 97% of 1st place Gordie Howe
3rd in Goals, 89% of 2nd place Maurice Richard
1st in Assists, 105% of 2nd place Gordie Howe

3rd in Play-off Points, 82% of 2nd place Ted Kennedy

10 Year Peak: 1948 to 1957
2nd in Points, 85% of 1st place Gordie Howe
3rd in Goals, 81% of 2nd place Maurice Richard
2nd in Assists, 91% of 1st place Gordie Howe

2nd in Play-off Points, 95% of 1st place Gordie Howe


Scoring Percentages:
Points - 116, 113, 110, 102, 100, 100, 89, 87, 70, 70, 67, 55, 51

Best 6 Seasons: 641
Next 6 Seasons: 438

"defensive ability" - Frank Orr
"ability to get under the skin of opponents" - Frank Orr
"(We could all) could shoot and score, everybody could carry the puck, and everybody's full intent was, "if I had to hit somebody, I would do so."" - Gordie Howe

Marchand: 5'9"/181 (needs to be updated)
Stanley Cup (2011)
1st in playoff EV goals (2010-11)
6th in goals (2015-16)
1st in goals, World Cup of Hockey 2016
4th in goals (2016-17)
5th in points (2016-17)
2016-17 NHL All-Star Team (1st)

Since Marchand’s first full season in 2010-11, through February 20, 2017-18 he ranks high in several categories among NHL players.

1st in plus-minus (+185)
1st in shorthanded goals (23) and in shorthanded points (36)
1st in backhand goals (49) and backhand shooting percentage (29.3%)
6th in shooting percentage (16.1%)

I said an even better version of what Marchand has been the past few years. Key words being even better.

Stylistically, am I wrong? They’re both smaller, menacing/agitating 2-way wingers who also happen to be among the best offensive players in the league. Obviously Marchand is nowhere near Lindsay historically, but how many better comparisons would there be than current Marchand?

Also, why did you ignore Marchand’s point finishes after 16-17? He has finishes of 5, 5, 6 and has been top 10 in points/game for 4 consecutive years now.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

The scoring difference is very large between them.

Holik wasn't a penalty killer, which is why he did so poorly in Selke voting. At even strength, he was very close to Madden defensively, probably better than Madden against large centers, not as good against small and fast ones.

Holik was a top 2 center on the team from 1995-96 to 1998-99, sometimes miscast as a #1, but he was a solid #2 C. Holik was pushed down the depth chart in 1999-00 by the emergences of Arnott and Gomez.

Basically Madden wins easily on PK, Holik easily on PP. I tend to favor Holik at even strength because of 1995-96 to 1998-99. (Counterargument - Holik was not very good in the playoffs when he had more of a scoring role).

i've always been curious about madden so i just looked up his ES TOI/game over the years. my sense, mostly from watching the 2003 finals, is that he was carbonneau-like where he was the "third line center" but might actually probably played more than bobby smith/ryan walter or kirk muller/denis savard/stephan lebeau, or whomever.

madden played shockingly little at ES in his first bunch of years. the year he won the selke, he's tied with nemchinov for 10th in ES TOI among forwards. by contrast holik was 1st in 2000 and 2002, though for whatever reason only 7th in 2001.

but then once holik is gone, madden leads devils forwards at ES every single year from 2003 to 2008, finishing as the selke runner up three times in those five seasons.

i'm not debating with you here, just sharing what i found. i liked holik a lot too, but never realized until you pointed it out years ago that he didn't really kill penalties.

 

[Karl Prime]

Sens

Alfredsson
Karlsson
Spezza
Yashin
Heatley
Hossa
Phillips
Redden
Stone
Neil

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Hawks in no particular order (although kinda chronological)...

Charlie Gardiner
Stan Mikita
Bobby Hull
Glenn Hall
Pierre Pilote
Tony Esposito
Denis Savard
Duncan Keith
Patrick Kane
Jonathan Toews

HM: Doug Bentley, Chris Chelios, Earl Seibert

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Bruins:

Orr
Bourque
Shore
Esposito
Chara
Bergeron
Neely
Brimsek
Schmidt
Bucyk

Need to find room for Dit Clapper and Bill Cowley...

Neely is an easy cut, second one is more difficult. My gut says Bucyk.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Need to find room for Dit Clapper and Bill Cowley...

Neely is an easy cut, second one is more difficult. My gut says Bucyk.

Disagree on Cowley. He did all his damage in the war years.

Neely and Clapper are a coin flip on paper.

I give Neely the edge because of the physical play he brought. He's the prototypical power forward and what you picture when you close your eyes and think of a Bruin. talented, tough as nails, hit and fight anything on the ice.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Disagree on Cowley. He did all his damage in the war years.

Neely and Clapper are a coin flip on paper.

I give Neely the edge because of the physical play he brought. He's the prototypical power forward and what you picture when you close your eyes and think of a Bruin. talented, tough as nails, hit and fight anything on the ice.

This sounds like you just like Neely more. I really don't see any argument for him actually being a better player than Clapper.

And as far as importance as a Bruin, Clapper was team Captain for 14 seasons, that's longer than Neely even played for Boston.

And you would REALLY have to ding Cowley for war years to rank him below Neely...
A lot of Cowley's best years came during the war depleted years, but he still was a 2x 1st Team AS at Center, Hart winner, and awarded a retro-Conn Smythe before that. Also, when looking at the 7 year vs.X scoring metric, his offense is among the best of all time (I wanna say right around 20th) and this is with an adjustment made for war years.

Also, in 1941, when the league was not yet depleted, Cowley had more assists than anyone had points. Wayne Gretzky is the only other player to do this.

 

[adsfan]

Can I ask you what Kariya is doing that high? I am honestly just curious of your justification, as we all have different metrics that we turn to. I just cannot see him above the guys beneath him on that list besides maybe Arvidsson. Not saying that my opinion is right, just wondering how he got to that point based off of two seasons.

He changed our franchise.

His short tenure here was one of the big steps to losing the "baby franchise" tags and those two seasons are still the most offensively productive years anybody's ever had on our team.

Even after 15 years he still ranks:

5th most goals scored in a season 05-06
1st and 2nd most assists in a season
1st and 2nd most points in a season
3rd and 7th highest PPG

Kariya made Nashville a contender on the ice and in the NHL Free Agent market. (It is similar to Reggie White signing with the Packers in 1993. That led to the 1996 Super Bowl XXXI win because other free agents wanted to go to Green Bay after the Minister of Defense signed for 4 years and $17M. Reggie played two more years beyond that contract in Green Bay.)

When I told my daughter that Kariya had signed with Nashville for 2005-06, she thought that I was making it up. Does that tell you something about me or her when she was a teenager? It was big news and we were and are residents of Wisconsin.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

1. Howe
2. Lidstrom
3. Yzerman
4. Lindsay
5. Sawchuk
6. Kelly
7. Fedorov
8. Delvecchio
9. Datsyuk
10. Zetterberg

I think Jack Stewart belongs on this list

Marcel Pronovost also has a case, but I'm less sure about him

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

My sleep-deprived, whiskey-fueled attempt for the Rangers, so sorry if I'm missing someone obvious:

1. Earl Seibert
2. Frank Boucher
3. Bill Cook
4. Bryan Hextall
5. Andy Bathgate
6. Rod Gilbert
7. Brad Park
8. Brian Leetch
9. Mark Messier
10. Henrik Lundqvist

HM: Ratelle, Giacomin, Bun Cook, Ching Johnson, Gump Worsley

Assuming these are not in any kind of order, it seems like a good list, except Ching Johnson needs to be on there.

I think Bill Gadsby has a better case than Seibert, who only played 4 1/2 seasons in New York, but Johnson over both

 

[mrhockey193195]

Assuming these are not in any kind of order, it seems like a good list, except Ching Johnson needs to be on there.

I think Bill Gadsby has a better case than Seibert, who only played 4 1/2 seasons in New York, but Johnson over both

All fair points. My order was roughly chronological, but I definitely bias towards seibert since he’s possibly the best defenseman to ever play for the Rangers (at least up there with Park).

 

[GMR]

I think Jack Stewart belongs on this list

Marcel Pronovost also has a case, but I'm less sure about him

Sid Abel was my biggest snub. However, he played just under 600 games for the franchise. Higher peak than Datsyuk or Zetterberg but not the longevity. I know he missed lots of time because of WW2. Goodfellow and Syd Howe are two other names who have a claim to the list. I'd rank all those players, including Pronovost, above Jack Stewart.

 

[DeysArena]

How many examples are there of players who could be on the top ten list for two different franchises?

Gretzky and Messier are the obvious choices. King Clancy, Brad Park and Ron Francis are other possibilities. Bobby Hull if you include the WHA.

Who else?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Sid Abel was my biggest snub. However, he played just under 600 games for the franchise. Higher peak than Datsyuk or Zetterberg but not the longevity. I know he missed lots of time because of WW2. Goodfellow and Syd Howe are two other names who have a claim to the list. I'd rank all those players, including Pronovost, above Jack Stewart.

Oops, I forgot Abel, he would definitely be on my list. I think when comparing players of different eras you have to look at seasons instead of games, and I do give some kind of a break for years missed due to war. I'd rank Abel over Zetterberg easily and also over Datsyuk, but that is closer.

I'd be interested to hear the Pronovost over Stewart argument, I have them close as it is and Pronovost has always been a difficult player for me to get a handle on.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

How many examples are there of players who could be on the top ten list for two different franchises?

Gretzky and Messier are the obvious choices. King Clancy, Brad Park and Ron Francis are other possibilities. Bobby Hull if you include the WHA.

Who else?

Pavel Bure: Florida and Vancouver

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

How many examples are there of players who could be on the top ten list for two different franchises?

Gretzky and Messier are the obvious choices. King Clancy, Brad Park and Ron Francis are other possibilities. Bobby Hull if you include the WHA.

Who else?

If Scott Stevens can make Washington's top 10, he would be one. Didn't see anyone do one for Washington yet, off the top of my head these guys would be ahead of him:
Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson, Holtby, Langway, Gonchar, Gartner

That's only 7, but I'm sure I'm forgetting some, still seems like he has a good chance...
8 seasons with a Norris record of 2, 5, 6, 6

EDIT: Bondra for sure and maybe Calle Johansson also, depends on how much you value peak vs. longevity, that would still leave one spot for Stevens

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

How many examples are there of players who could be on the top ten list for two different franchises?

Gretzky and Messier are the obvious choices. King Clancy, Brad Park and Ron Francis are other possibilities. Bobby Hull if you include the WHA.

Who else?

Ryan Suter: Nashville and Minnesota Wild

 

[DeysArena]

If Scott Stevens can make Washington's top 10, he would be one. Didn't see anyone do one for Washington yet, off the top of my head these guys would be ahead of him:
Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson, Holtby, Langway, Gonchar, Gartner

That's only 7, but I'm sure I'm forgetting some, still seems like he has a good chance...
8 seasons with a Norris record of 2, 5, 6, 6

EDIT: Bondra for sure and maybe Calle Johansson also, depends on how much you value peak vs. longevity, that would still leave one spot for Stevens

You missed Olaf Kolzig.