Value of: Top-Six Center to the Red Wings

[RedMenace]

Scenario: The Red Wings want another top-six center.

The only assets off the table are Larkin, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Hronek, Seider Veleno, and (G) Filip Larsson.

Is a trade possible, or do we have to wait for a draft/development guy to come along?

Go.

Note: I do NOT, nor do I presume to, speak for the entirety of the Red Wings fan base on this message board or anywhere else. This is simply a question borne of pure curiosity and my opinions as a fan.

Edit: Added Veleno. My mistake, it's been a long week.

Click to read more...

 

[heilongjetsfan]

Scenario: The Red Wings want another top-six center.

The only assets off the table are Larkin, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Hronek, Seider, and (G) Filip Larsson.

Is a trade possible, or do we have to wait for a draft/development guy to come along?

Go.

Only your best 6 assets are off the table?

Maybe you could start with what you think you *should* give up for a top-6 C.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Only your best 6 assets are off the table?

Maybe you could start with what you think you *should* give up for a top-6 C.

If zadina is on the table teams would be interested

 

[RedMenace]

Only your best 6 assets are off the table?

Maybe you could start with what you think you *should* give up for a top-6 C.

No, I posed the question, you provide the answers. If you don't think a trade is possible, state that and why you think it's the case; which you did in a roundabout way, so cool, thanks for your input, I guess.

Otherwise, my criteria have been established. Take the thread or leave it, the choice is yours.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

If zadina is on the table teams would be interested

That's a start. I don't watch Detroit much, but don't you guys see him as a 1st line winger? With his lack of experience, I can't see you getting full value for his potential. Is he the only piece you'd make available?

 

[RedMenace]

That's a start. I don't watch Detroit much, but don't you guys see him as a 1st line winger? With his lack of experience, I can't see you getting
full value for his potential. Is he the only piece you'd make available?

Zadina is on the table, and I did that for my own reasons. Seriously, the only pieces I've made unavailable for trade are the ones I listed previously; literally EVERYONE else is up for the right move.

 

[LarKing]

We have a top 6 C coming up in a year or two in Veleno.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

No, I posed the question, you provide the answers. If you don't think a trade is possible, state that and why you think it's the case; which you did in a roundabout way, so cool, thanks for your input, I guess.

Otherwise, my criteria have been established. Take the thread or leave it, the choice is yours.

Feel free to take it however you like, but what I'm really looking for is what you think you can/should give up for the piece you're after.

I don't think it's particularly reasonable that you expect everyone has a detailed knowledge of your roster and your prospect cupboard.

This is all hypothetical and for the sake of entertainment. You want us all to research your entire organizational depth?

 

[RedMenace]

We have a top 6 C coming up in a year or two in Veleno.

I honestly forgot about JV, but the question remains. I will edit the OP to reflect Veleno.

Feel free to take it however you like, but what I'm really looking for is what you think you can/should give up for the piece you're after.

I don't think it's particularly reasonable that you expect everyone has a detailed knowledge of your roster and your prospect cupboard.

This is all hypothetical and for the sake of entertainment. You want us all to research your entire organizational depth?

I'm not trying to be an ass or difficult, but on the Hockey's Future message boards, I do expect a base level of research before response to a thread.

It's pretty easy to visit CapFriendly and do a cursory Google search, so in this environment, no I don't think it's unreasonable.

For example, I'm not a wannabe GM by any stretch, but if I respond to something I at least look at the existing contracts for the team(s) mentioned. Perhaps I'm asking too much, and if so, I apologize.

 

[UnSandvich]

How about current NYR 2C Ryan Strome for a 3rd?

 

[Ezekial]

I'm good on getting Byfield.

We started 4-1-0 in 2017-2018 and we scored 18 goals in those 5 games, then we lost 6 straight.

 

[RedMenace]

How about current NYR 2C Ryan Strome for a 3rd?

Honestly, I haven't watched him much, but I wouldn't do it. He's 26 and hasn't been able to establish himself with any one team; at this point, I don't think adding a contract to gamble on what is probably a "reclamation project" is the answer.

I'm good on getting Byfield.

We started 4-1-0 in 2017-2018 and we scored 18 goals in those 5 games, then we lost 6 straight.

You know I respect you and your opinion, Zeke, but I don't want to rely on drafting and/or luck after 3 straight top-10 picks. Again, maybe I'm asking too much.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

You'd probably have to pay Zadina+1st just to get anybody to listen if you're going to take your 6 best assests off the table.

 

[Ezekial]

You know I respect you and your opinion, Zeke, but I don't want to solely on drafting and/or luck after 3 straight top-10 picks. Again, maybe I'm asking too much.

The proposal is basically who wants one or both of Zadina and Cholowski for their 2C? I don't expect much out of this team this year in the long run so I guess I'm not ready to move a young asset and/or draft pick without getting a young piece back. I'm trying to think of a player that fits the rebuild age-wise and is more established as lesser than one of the young guys we certainly couldn't get (Kotka, Glass, Hayton) Idk maybe someone will bring up a name that I will agree with, but I have hope for Veleno to be a legit 2C, Rasmussen could be an asset of a 3C if we have to go in another direction at the draft. But, I fully expect a top 10 pick and a big graduation of prospects over the following 2 seasons as we come out of the rebuild. Again if someone suggests a suitable trade partner I might think it's a good way to help the rebuild, but at this point I think we should just let the ship sail.

 

[RedMenace]

You'd probably have to pay Zadina+1st just to get anybody to listen if you're going to take your 6 best assests off the table.

Yep, so who does it and why?

The proposal is basically who wants one or both of Zadina and Cholowski for their 2C? I don't expect much out of this team this year in the long run so I guess I'm not ready to move a young asset and/or draft pick without getting a young piece back. I'm trying to think of a player that fits the rebuild age-wise and is more established as lesser than one of the young guys we certainly couldn't get (Kotka, Glass, Hayton) Idk maybe someone will bring up a name that I will agree with, but I have hope for Veleno to be a legit 2C, Rasmussen could be an asset of a 3C if we have to go in another direction at the draft. But, I fully expect a top 10 pick and a big graduation of prospects over the following 2 seasons as we come out of the rebuild. Again if someone suggests a suitable trade partner I might think it's a good way to help the rebuild, but at this point I think we should just let the ship sail.

Perfect, this is well-enunciated and exactly why I posted the question. I understand next year could be different, but I think our absolute "rebuild" window has produced enough draft picks to make a determination as to whether or not a trade needs to be made. We don't want to go the Oilers route just hoping draft picks pan out, do we?

The bolded is what I'm looking for from other teams. Is it a good idea? A bad idea? Is it feasible? Does anyone think any of the available assets on both sides are worthwhile?

 

[redwings25]

no need, rebuilding team with velano and maybe even ras as prospects. just gotta get rid of some old folk so the kids can play.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Wouldn't they want to "develop" and build by adding another top 10 pick?
Maybe they could chase a Danault or Bonino type in off-season as they'd both be a UFA later that year and a cheaper cost to take a stab at playoffs by 2020-2021.
I know Bonino isn't a top 6 but would insulate Veleno a bit.

 

[redwings25]

Yep, so who does it and why?



Perfect, this is well-enunciated and exactly why I posted the question. I understand next year could be different, but I think our absolute "rebuild" window has produced enough draft picks to make a determination as to whether or not a trade needs to be made. We don't want to go the Oilers route just hoping draft picks pan out, do we?

The bolded is what I'm looking for from other teams. Is it a good idea? A bad idea? Is it feasible? Does anyone think any of the available assets on both sides are worthwhile?

the oilers might have had the most incompetent front office the nhl has ever seen, wings have the best gm in the league. the next couple years bad contracts expire and I wanna see what yzerman can do with the space. I must like Cholowski more than you, looks like a good top 4 d with top pairing upside. zadina who knows, could be a 1st liner in 2 years or could fail miserably buts its not time to trade either. trade away anyone with any value over 30 for picks and let the kids play. the future looks very bright it just might take a year or 2

 

[Ezekial]

Wouldn't they want to "develop" and build by adding another top 10 pick?
Maybe they could chase a Danault or Bonino type in off-season as they'd both be a UFA later that year and a cheaper cost to take a stab at playoffs by 2020-2021.
I know Bonino isn't a top 6 but would insulate Veleno a bit.

We just went and got Filppula as that Bonino type buffer this off-season. Signed through next season.

 

[RedMenace]

no need, rebuilding team with velano and maybe even ras as prospects. just gotta get rid of some old folk so the kids can play.

Fair point, but the longer-contracted Cs blocking that development are Abdelkader and Nielsen; Glendening is a reasonable contract, and I think Helm is borderline.

Wouldn't they want to "develop" and build by adding another top 10 pick?
Maybe they could chase a Danault or Bonino type in off-season as they'd both be a UFA later that year and a cheaper cost to take a stab at playoffs by 2020-2021.
I know Bonino isn't a top 6 but would insulate Veleno a bit.

That's the ultimate question though, isn't it? Do you want to take the chance of a draft pick, or attempt a trade for an "established" 2C (I guess at this point that's what we're shooting for)?

How many years do you "hope" that a draft pick pans out without getting a top-three pick (for the record, I would have taken Dach had he fallen to 6 this past draft)? Rasmussen showed fairly decently for a kid coming straight out of Junior last season, but he needs more time; Veleno is on the right track, but he also needs time, and honestly I'm worried he'll just be Helm 2.0.

Per other teams, do the Wings have the assets worth a Ducheeseknee, RNH, or shudder Kadri?

the oilers might have had the most incompetent front office the nhl has ever seen, wings have the best gm in the league. the next couple years bad contracts expire and I wanna see what yzerman can do with the space. I must like Cholowski more than you, looks like a good top 4 d with top pairing upside. zadina who knows, could be a 1st liner in 2 years or could fail miserably buts its not time to trade either. trade away anyone with any value over 30 for picks and let the kids play. the future looks very bright it just might take a year or 2

I agree with the bolded, but I'm not sure that more draft picks do it.

For the record, I like Cholo, but in my opinion he's expendable for the right 2C.

 

[Ctrain2k]

I thought Athanasiou was doing really good for the wings, is he not?

 

[Stephen]

Unless you pull a Jim Nill and steal someone like Tyler Seguin away from someone, chances are you're going to end up trading for a Derek Stepan level center. At which point, you have to ask, what's the point?

 

[SimonEdvinssonAtSix]

Only your best 6 assets are off the table?

Maybe you could start with what you think you *should* give up for a top-6 C.

Yes, our top line, 1st pairing D man & Stud D prospect who was drafted like 3 months ago are off the table. Is that so crazy?!

 

[RedMenace]

I thought Athanasiou was doing really good for the wings, is he not?

He started the year injured, but that's really moot; he was supposed to be playing wing this year, but I guess SFY has some reasoning for telling Blashill to play him at C -- which is exactly what I think is happening.

He needs to be a winger who can cherry pick and fly the zone. Imagine putting AA with someone like even Kyle Turris, and you're getting where I'm headed.

Unless you pull a Jim Nill and steal someone like Tyler Seguin away from someone, chances are you're going to end up trading for a Derek Stepan level center. At which point, you have to ask, what's the point?

Exactly, and that's the point of my asking -- is there anything anyone thinks another team would entertain given the parameters above? Someone like Seguin would obviously be out of the question at this juncture, barring an overpayment from the Wings.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

@RedMenace , I think most teams would ask for AA+ Cholowski/1st. The 1st seems like overpayment since its likely to be another Top 10, but for a younger Duchene caliber, I'd entertain the AA+Cholo. However, removing AA just creates another hole in our Top 6 as you're aware. So maybe add AA to the unavailable list.

For an extended Grandlund I'd do Cholowski+2nd & 3rd?