Top GM Replacements

Discussion in 'Edmonton Oilers' started by boxall9, Jan 23, 2019.

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  1. Patch101

    Patch101 Registered User

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    I rescinded the comment as it was to early to tell for most of their picks although I don't generally credit drafting to the GM. I will credit a gm for putting the right people in place who will do that, but its unclear to me if he had any influence in his time there with that.

    I'm looking mostly at his trade history (which is tiny), and judging from his returns (which is mainly picks .... ) he doesn't know how to buy low or evaluate potential. That is why (along with poor taste in coaches) he got canned. Just doesn't move the dial.

    All I see is another MacT or Tambo there. No thanks from me, but I respect that people like him.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  2. bobbythebrain

    bobbythebrain Registered User

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    First, you must understand that he developed a plan to fix empty cupboards and one of the worst cap situations in the NHL. A plan, as in patience is the ONLY way to approach that..or you end up like this mess overspending in FA. He preached that over and over, unlike the bozos in this outfit, who are forcing everything

    His trades? he traded away 3 immovable contracts in Lecalvier, Schenn and Pronger...and he got a return, when most GM's have to pay to move contracts

    Evaluate potential? He drafted Hart, took an undrafted Myers, and traded up to get both Konecny and Frost

    His poor signings for players like Elliot, Weise, Gordon, were planned "filler" players while he bided time to develop, and he didn't want to hand any term so he'd have cap when it mattered

    He hasn't handed out a single clause in 4 years, even to high ticket players like Voracek and JVR, cuz over and over he stated cap flexibility is highly important to improvise(ahem ahem Lucic, Talbot, Koskinen, Russel)

    He is on record as saying the team was real close and with a boatload of cap and a full cupboard picks and prospects finally, he was gonna spend to make a contender for years, and didn't spend early just to make odd playoff appearances and shallow playoff runs(sound familiar?)

    Aside from 1 big mistake, like you mentioned, a poor choice in a coach, he was extremely impressive doing all that in 4 years. Now Fletcher gets the keys to arguably one of the best situations in the NHL for a GM.
    A team filled w/ proven vets like G, Vora, JVR, awesome prime players like Couterier and Ghost on criminal contracts, and a handful of fantastic rookies like Hart, Sanheim, Provorov, Patrick, Konecny and Lindblom

    If Hart continues to play like he has, the Flyers will be a top 5 team in the NHL for years to come, and that all is at the hands of Hextall
     
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  3. Patch101

    Patch101 Registered User

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    Ok, but to reiterate, I don't attribute the drafting to the GM himself unless he put his own people in (to which I have no info) who DO take care of that.

    Your giving a lot of credit to his scouting staff, but when I say evaluate talent. I'm talking about trading for guys that are hanging out on the farm, or on the bottom 6 who
    can make an impact on the top 6. Much like how we got Maroon or how Vegas saw skill able to play in the top 6 when they drafted. His trade history shows nothing to indicate this ...

    Here is the thing for me, while he has done some good things. Cap management, trading out bad contracts. That's not good enough for me.

    I want someone who has a lot of experience dealing with the amateur side of hockey (to match pro), who can look, revamp, audit and make changes towards improving development/drafting.
    I want someone who isn't just safe, but isn't afraid to also explore buy low trades, college fa's, euro players, pto's, summer fa's etc etc.
    I wanna to see someone who is aggressively looking for players in all areas.

    I will agree that he didn't make really bad trades, and that he was good at getting rid of contracts (although I really like Schenn myself) and he himself might be a strong negotiator
    making contracts, but its not enough and I don't think management is going to want someone to sit on their hands for the next 5 years while they had McDavid on their hands.

    I'm also tired of seeing player's turned GM's running the show. I wanna see someone who has proven themselves through the ranks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  4. smokersarejokers

    smokersarejokers Registered User

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    I actually like Hextall more after hearing about his "moles" that he planted in the Flyers organization. That's the kind of crazy **** that would turn this team inside out.

    Although, logic tells me that this also means that he'll never be hired here because the *******s from the 80s would never allow that...and he slashed Kent Nilsson like 30 years ago and we all know that this team never forgets **** from the 80s...and here we are.
     
  5. rboomercat90

    rboomercat90 Registered User

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    He also specifically criticized the Oilers rebuilding process when the Flyers hired him as GM. The 80s reason you mentioned is likely enough for this team not to hire him, if it wasn’t then those comments were.
     
  6. joestevens29

    joestevens29 Registered User

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    Didn't see it mentioned, but McKenzie said the other day that he suspects we start asking teams for permission later this week
     
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  7. Joey Moss

    Joey Moss 5-14-6-1

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    If Bob Murray gets axed in Anaheim he's a guy I would take a look at. I know Ducks fans have turned on him but I think they've done a great job of drafting and developing. He's not a guy to make ridiculous trades unless it's the right time (Kesler), he's patient which is what I think we need.

    The drafting in Anaheim is just as good as Tampa, if not better.. Since he was hired in Nov. 2008..

    2009- Palmieri, Vatanen
    2010- Fowler, Smith-Pelly
    2011- Rakell, Gibson, W. Karlsson, Manson
    2012- Lindholm, Andersen
    2013- Theodore
    2014- Ritchie, Pettersson, Montour, Kase

    The rest are too early to tell, but Terry, Steel, Mahura, Comtois all look like good picks.

    The issues in Anaheim have more to do with the aging core then anything IMO. His cap management has been fine as well.. The Kesler contract will cripple them, but Perry and Getzlaf were signed for the right price and term when they signed.. There's only 2 bad years on Perry's deal left.
     
  8. SavesFromKosko

    SavesFromKosko Registered User

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    I agree. Also you can’t account for career crippling injuries like Kesler had when negotiating contracts.
     
  9. Aceboogie

    Aceboogie Registered User

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    The issue I have with looking at a GMs drafting is that drafting is largely, and almost wholly, luck (after the late 2nd round). Most times, if you just pick skill, or just avoid picking the coke machines, youll land good players over a 10 year period. Hell, if you exclude our obvious coke machine picks (Moroz, Abney, etc etc X 20), we actually got some good talent such as Reider, Petry, Dubnyk, Cogs, Marincin, Khaira, Gustafsson etc. The problem is, we picked SOOO many coke machines

    I guess what I am trying to get at, is that these "good drafting" GMs just avoided picking coke machines. I wouldnt say thats a special talent enough to warrant them getting hired solely on that. And even further, after the 1st/2nd round, most GMs have little input in the picks and just go on the head scouts recommendation. So oud have to get that GM plus the head scout

    Any GM should also be good as pro scouting (arguably more important than amateur scouting), trades, signings etc. Basically, he has to show competency is his evaluation process that hes not going to overvalue a player due to one hot stretch, nor undervalue a player due to one unlucky, down season

    I also dont think Id be thrilled with bringing in a guy who thought Carlyle was a good coaching decision and then stuck by him for this long. Or brought in Dallas Eakins with the mind to potentially replace Carlyle. Massive red flags right there
     
  10. Joey Moss

    Joey Moss 5-14-6-1

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    I think when you're able to find players year after year, it's not "luck." You mentioned 7 players in a 10 year span.. The Ducks have found a core piece of their team in every single draft since Murray has been there.
     
  11. Aceboogie

    Aceboogie Registered User

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    As I said, the Oilers picked overwhelming from the coke machine pool, and very few from the skilled pool. When they picked from the cokemachine pool htye had a zero % hit rate, when they picked from the skill pool, it was likely around 25%, or something closer to the Ducks hit rate.

    The Oilers could have had similar players if they prioritized skill (Vatanen) oversize (Musil).

    All I am saying, is that drafting amateurs has the most degree of luck involved. So Id look at other areas with more skill involved first. This is a guy who legitimately thought Randy Carlyle was a good hire or who has made misses on pro scouting (Bieska for example).

    There is a reason hes about to be fired. Like Chiarelli, he has flaws. I dont find picking up recycled GMs very appealing, they get fired for a reason
     
  12. Stoneman89

    Stoneman89 Registered User

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    Sometimes though, GM's and coaches can be like a lot of players. They can wear out their welcome eventually, and need a change of scenery, and ultimately fined success again. Chia was just garbage from the beginning. Carlyle was a good hire, and won a cup, and had very competitive teams up until this year.
     
  13. vanarchy

    vanarchy Registered User

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    Do you guys think you would ever give Gillis a chance? He was a bit of an ahole to the media but he was an awesome GM.
     
  14. Soundwave

    Soundwave Registered User

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    He is worth an interview. There are two positions theoretically available anyway ... GM and president of hockey ops, not sure if he'd be interested in the POHO position instead.
     
  15. vanarchy

    vanarchy Registered User

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    He’s rumoured to be heading for Seattle to set up shop there. I honestly think he’s a better option than most of the guys playing musical chairs with teams currently.
     
  16. Oilhawks

    Oilhawks Just the Tipp Sponsor

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    Will he be an ahole to the OBC cockroaches that will inevitably be around to lend garbage advice? If so, come on down.
     
  17. vanarchy

    vanarchy Registered User

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    Probably. He really doesn’t take people’s **** at all. :laugh: The man is an absolute savage but the contender that he put together for us was unlike anything I’ve ever seen. I truly believe he would have had a cup under his belt if we weren’t decimated by injuries.

    Edit: He's also the opposite of Chia in regards to panic trades. If someone was lowballing him and that's all he had in terms of offers, he simply wouldn't make the trade. End of story. I can see how that would be both negative and positive.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
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  18. BlackMcDog

    BlackMcDog Registered User

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    Speaking of the OBC, I wonder how these guys go out in public in Edmonton without getting shamed by now. I mean most people aren't going to do it but if it happened to Connor of all people, how the hell do these guys go out without a disguise?
     
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  19. Oilhawks

    Oilhawks Just the Tipp Sponsor

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    Agreed with the bolded. The girlfriend is from Vancouver (obviously a Canucks fan) and seethes about the Bruins to this day (understandably).

    About the edit note, I'd rather that but yes, sometimes it's good to take the risk... Being able to identify when and when not to is incredibly rare (and a bit of luck). Given the choices I'd rather have the guy that holds out rather than making the panic move.

    Good question. A few years ago when my dad was at the Cross for treatments they saw MacT there. Otherwise I don't know of anyone that has seen any OBC members around. I imagine they try and be as incognito as possible.
     
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  20. MikeGrier99

    MikeGrier99 Registered User

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    They'd roll out the red carpet for the old boys in Calgary. Everyone would want to buy them a beer.
     
  21. PKSpecialist

    PKSpecialist Registered User

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    Anyone think that maybe if Kelly McCrimmon is the new GM of the Oilers, that Rocky Thompson, current HC of Vegas' AHL affiliate, could be the Head Coach next year? Thompson's AHL team has fantastic numbers. Tied for 3rd in goals for while allowing the 6th least goals against. Syracuse and Bakersfield are the only teams with a better goal differential, and Syracuse is stacked.

    I don't hate Jay Woodcroft, but I like Rocky Thompson's experience much more.

    I like that Thompson worked his way up. He was an assistant in the WHL, then the AHL, then the NHL. Then he was a head coach in the OHL, then the AHL, and knocking on the door of the NHL.

    I also like that Rocky Thompson has NHL playing experience, and as an enforcer, I think he would command the respect of the players. I think maybe a guy who fought tooth and nail for everything he has, that the players might just respond.

    I don't pretend to know the style of hockey that his junior teams played or that his AHL team plays, but he seems to be the kind of guy that has the pedigree that this squad needs.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  22. FunkyChicken

    FunkyChicken Are you an Oilers fan? "I try to be."

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    Not sure why there would be an interest in him as his drafting history seems beyond horrible.
     
  23. Del Preston

    Del Preston Proctologist

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    Is there a connection between McCrimmon and Thompson?

    Edit: oh I'm dumb. Thompson is coaching the baby Knights.
     
  24. PKSpecialist

    PKSpecialist Registered User

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    I could've been more clear though...
     
  25. Patch101

    Patch101 Registered User

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    Thompson is an interesting guy. I remember seeing some of the fun stuff he was doing in the locker rooms.
     
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