Flyers' History: Top 5 Flyers by position

[renberg]

It’s hard for many fans to rate some of these players since they never saw some of these guys from the past. Also the level of competition much tougher when there were fewer teams. CIP, Propp was a very good LW but Barber was a legend at the position.

 

[Appleyard]

Thought about it a bit today, favouring peaks and primes (but not discounting longevity). My list:

Centre:

#1. Clarke
#2. Lindros
#3. Giroux
#4. MacLeish
#5. Brind'Amour (but if Couturier finishes this year ~same as last 2 he may well eclipse him)

Right wing:

#1. Recchi
#2. Kerr
#3. Voracek
#4. Leach
#5. Tocchet

Left wing:

#1. LeClair
#2. Barber
#3. Propp
#4. Gagne
#5. Hartnell (people might be taken aback... but look at era for Craven, Sinisalo, Lonsberry... Hartnell had better peak+prime)

Defence:

#1. Howe
#2. Desjardins
#3. Timonen
#4. McCrimmon
#5. Dupont (tough, uhmed and ahhd with Jimmy Watson)

Goalies:

#1. Parent
#2. Hextall
#3. Lindbergh
#4. Mason
#5. Favell (just edging Cechmanek)

 

[Appleyard]

Thought about it a bit today, favouring peaks and primes (but not discounting longevity). My list:

Centre:

#1. Clarke
#2. Lindros
#3. Giroux
#4. MacLeish
#5. Brind'Amour (but if Couturier finishes this year ~same as last 2 he may well eclipse him)

Right wing:

#1. Recchi
#2. Kerr
#3. Voracek
#4. Leach
#5. Tocchet

Left wing:

#1. LeClair
#2. Barber
#3. Propp
#4. Gagne
#5. Hartnell (people might be taken aback... but look at era for Craven, Sinisalo, Lonsberry... Hartnell had better peak+prime)

Defence:

#1. Howe
#2. Desjardins
#3. Timonen
#4. McCrimmon
#5. Dupont (tough, uhmed and ahhd with Jimmy Watson)

Goalies:

#1. Parent
#2. Hextall
#3. Lindbergh
#4. Mason
#5. Favell (just edging Cechmanek)

If I was making an all-time team (~200+ gp):

Barber-Clarke-Leach
LeClair-Lindros-Recchi
Propp-Giroux-Kerr
MacLeish-Brind'Amour-Voracek

Howe-Desjardins
Timonen-McCrimmon
Dupont-Ji.Watson

Parent
Hextall

If take games played down just a bit Pronger walks into the team too...

 

[BiggE]

It’s hard for many fans to rate some of these players since they never saw some of these guys from the past. Also the level of competition much tougher when there were fewer teams. CIP, Propp was a very good LW but Barber was a legend at the position.

Barber was the best LW of his generation. Propp, while I love him, was not

 

[BiggE]

Thought about it a bit today, favouring peaks and primes (but not discounting longevity). My list:

Centre:

#1. Clarke
#2. Lindros
#3. Giroux
#4. MacLeish
#5. Brind'Amour (but if Couturier finishes this year ~same as last 2 he may well eclipse him)

Right wing:

#1. Recchi
#2. Kerr
#3. Voracek
#4. Leach
#5. Tocchet

Left wing:

#1. LeClair
#2. Barber
#3. Propp
#4. Gagne
#5. Hartnell (people might be taken aback... but look at era for Craven, Sinisalo, Lonsberry... Hartnell had better peak+prime)

Defence:

#1. Howe
#2. Desjardins
#3. Timonen
#4. McCrimmon
#5. Dupont (tough, uhmed and ahhd with Jimmy Watson)

Goalies:

#1. Parent
#2. Hextall
#3. Lindbergh
#4. Mason
#5. Favell (just edging Cechmanek)

Like it! Can’t put Leclair over Barber though. Johnny was great but Barber was the much better all around player

 

[Appleyard]

Like it! Can’t put Leclair over Barber though. Johnny was great but Barber was the much better all around player

I just think at their best LeClair was better... he was also a great defensive winger but a better goalscorer and producer given era.

 

[BiggE]

I just think at their best LeClair was better... he was also a great defensive winger but a better goalscorer and producer given era.

At his best Barber put up 50-62-112, QB’d the top pp unit and was on the top PK pairing of a team that took the most penalties in the league, and was fantastic at killing them off and scoring shorties. Trust me, I’m 55 and saw them both, Barber was better.

 

[Appleyard]

At his best Barber put up 50-62-112, QB’d the top pp unit and was on the top PK pairing of a team that took the most penalties in the league, and was fantastic at killing them off and scoring shorties. Trust me, I’m 55 and saw them both, Barber was better.

He was ofc very good, dont get in the Hall without being. But he did that in a high scoring era, and LeClair at his best was in lowest scoring era ever.

Best five seasons in terms of NHL point finishes:

Barber: 4, 18, 22, 24, 26
LeClair: 4, 5, 9, 9, 13

LeClair was just a different level offensively at his best. And while Barber had more longevity (~11 seasons as a top ~40 NHL fwd), and was better defensively not sure that makes up for the 5-6 year prime of LeClair in my eyes.

And LeClair has a better Hart voting record (6, 7, 15 vs 15) and All-star voting record (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3 vs 1, 2, 2, 3, 3) alongside that.

As I said, for me I just value peak+prime that bit more I guess!

 

[BiggE]

He was ofc very good, dont get in the Hall without being. But he did that in a high scoring era, and LeClair at his best was in lowest scoring era ever.

Best five seasons in terms of NHL point finishes:

Barber: 4, 18, 22, 24, 26
LeClair: 4, 5, 9, 9, 13

LeClair was just a different level offensively at his best. And while Barber had more longevity (~11 seasons as a top ~40 NHL fwd), and was better defensively not sure that makes up for the 5-6 year prime of LeClair in my eyes.

And LeClair has a better Hart voting record (6, 7, 15 vs 15) and All-star voting record (1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3 vs 1, 2, 2, 3, 3) alongside that.

As I said, for me I just value peak+prime that bit more I guess!

It’s all good. Wish we had either one right now

 

[lancer247]

I just think at their best LeClair was better... he was also a great defensive winger but a better goalscorer and producer given era.

Normally, I agree with you and even differ to work you put in but on this I gotta go with Barber.
LeClair was more than just a goal scorer but Barber was Barber was better all around and just as good a goal scorer.
Its an interesting debate because both played with all time great centers in the league not just in the Flyers.

 

[lancer247]

I have to think about who were the top 5 Clutch performers.
Gagne has a couple of OT playoff game winners, off the top of my head.
Duh, Leach won SC MVP in a losing effort (while drunk several games).

 

[BiggE]

I have to think about who were the top 5 Clutch performers.
Gagne has a couple of OT playoff game winners, off the top of my head.
Duh, Leach won SC MVP in a losing effort (while drunk several games).

Top 5 Clutch:
Clarke
Game 2: 73-74 finals, enough said

Briere
Borderline 1C in his regulation prime. Friggin franchise player at his best in the playoffs

Macleish
Pure money in the biggest games

Parent
Backstopped 2 Cup winners, dominant

Leach
Goal scoring machine, a threat anywhere on the ice. During the 76 playoffs he scored goals at a Gretzky in his prime pace.

 

[lancer247]

Top 5 Clutch:
Clarke
Game 2: 73-74 finals, enough said

Briere
Borderline 1C in his regulation prime. Friggin franchise player at his best in the playoffs

Macleish
Pure money in the biggest games

Parent
Backstopped 2 Cup winners, dominant

Leach
Goal scoring machine, a threat anywhere on the ice. During the 76 playoffs he scored goals at a Gretzky in his prime pace.

Yeah, I think Macleish has 10 game winning playoff goals. That’s ridiculous.

 

[Normand Lacombe]

Goaltenders:
Parent
Hextall
Lindbergh
Cechmanek
Peeters

Defense:
Howe
Desjardins
Timmonen
McCrimmon
Van Impe

Center:
Clarke
Lindros
MacLeish
Brind'Amour
Giroux

Left Wing:
Barber
LeClair
Propp
Gagne
Craven

Right Wing:
Recchi
Kerr
Leach
Voracek
Tocchet

 

[lancer247]

Goaltenders:
Parent
Hextall
Lindbergh
Cechmanek
Peeters

Defense:
Howe
Desjardins
Timmonen
McCrimmon
Van Impe

Center:
Clarke
Lindros
MacLeish
Brind'Amour
Giroux

Left Wing:
Barber
LeClair
Propp
Gagne
Craven

Right Wing:
Recchi
Kerr
Leach
Voracek
Tocchet

FaveI seems like the consensus but I think I might go Mr. Bean too.
I was a Phil Myher fan but he probably doesn’t break the top 15.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Bill Barber was such a great defensive forward that he played the blue line in some games when the Flyers' D corps was mangled in the early 80s. To this day, his performance in 1980 against Minnesota was one of the best efforts by a forward on defense I recall. If the Flyers had won the 1980 Cup, Barber would have been a leading candidate -- with Paul Holmgren and Ken Linseman possible -- to win the Conn Smythe that year.

It can be entertaining to compare and contrast players over the decades but rules changes, systems evolve, teammates and line mates factor, sometimes there isn't a right or wrong answer. Then we get into arbitration-like discussions where we have to criticize the compared in order to elevate the favored.

One thing about all-time teams that is easily overlooked and that is the intangible(s). Dave Poulin was perhaps the second best captain on the Flyers in their history. Though Claude Giroux may have that title. Eric Lindros warts and all is in that debate. But that is based on leadership and not skill level. Poulin was the consummate captain. A quiet, strong leader. Clarke was more fiery of course but that was a sign of the times. He perhaps saved the career and maybe the life of Reggie Leach. When opposing fans bash Clarke, they fail to recognize his tremendous skills in uniting the Flyers in such a way that us against them was never equaled in the hockey world.

Gary Dornhoefer and Ross Lonsberry were perfect line mates for Rick MacLeish. Dornhoefer perhaps more so than anyone saved MacLeish and without that camaraderie MacLeish on a line with other Flyers' greats -- on paper -- may not have been as successful. But this thread isn't so much about "lines" as it is lists. As is often said by me, even those who hated the Flyers of the 1970s, none of them dare touch the legacies of MacLeish or Bernie Parent because those two were flawless in their skills.

Ultimately, teams win Cups. And teams get to Cups. The Flyers had the distinction of playing all-time great teams with Montreal of the 1970s, the Islanders of the 1980s, the Oilers twice in the 1980s and even Detroit and Chicago eventually built multiple winners. Sure not every loss was the same, and anyone who thinks "goalies' or "choking" was the universal decree is making a mockery of one's self. The Keenan teams were without exceptional superstars but the "team" almost pulled off one of hockey's great runs of all-time in 1987. That would have been us-against them, part 2.

 

[Rebels57]

We should do an All-Decade Team with the 2010s winding down.

 

[BiggE]

We should do an All-Decade Team with the 2010s winding down.

Hmm, that’s a good one. Let’s go from the 10-11 season to today.

Here goes nothing:

LW: Giroux
C: Couturier
RW: Voracek
D: Timonen
D: Provorov
G: Mason

Although G spent more time at center, I put him at wing because I felt he and Coots both had to be on it. Also, if Pronger had been able to play just a couple more years, he’s beating out Provy

And, the other decades:
2000-01 to 09-10

LW: Gagne
C: Richards
RW: Knuble
D: K Jonsson
D: Desjardins
G: Cechmanek

RW and goal were tough. Was a coin flip between and Recchi for the one and I gave Biron and Esche some consideration for the other

90-91 to 99-00

LW: Leclair
C: Lindros
RW: Recchi
D: Desjardins
D: Therien
G: Hextall

This one was the easiest of the bunch

80-81 to 89-90

LW: Propp
C: Poulin
RW: Kerr
D: Howe
D: McCrimmon
G: Lindbergh

Another pretty easy one though I gave Marsh a bit of consideration on D but just couldn’t rate him over the Beast.

67-68 to 79-80

LW: Barber
C: Clarke
RW: Leach
D: Ed Van Impe
D: Jimmy Watson
G: Parent

The only tough choice here was on D. Joe Watson, Ashbee and Bob Dailey were all in the running. I also gave Dorny some thought on RW, but the 75-76 season and playoff run clinched it for the Rifle