Prospect Info: Top 20 Prospects

[The Zetterberg Era]

That wasn't the case earlier in the year.

Tatar was called up because he was the hotter player, both were planned on getting action. During the lockout they spoke higher on Gus, really they have the entire time they have had them both in Grand Rapids.

That isn't to say they dislike Tatar, I just think they think Nyquist's ceiling is higher, something that I agree with. He has a better hockey IQ.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

That wasn't the case earlier in the year.

If you watch the videos, it certainly seems so... and those videos are from January.

 

[Frk It]

That wasn't the case earlier in the year.

That was HFBoards, not the Red Wings organization.

 

[jaster]

They don't count Nyquist or DK or Lashoff as prospects, so here's how my rankings match up if you take them out (RWC ranking in parenthesis):

1. Tatar (3)
2. Mrazek (2) - our only match!
3. Jurco (4) - they like him too!
4. Sproul (6)
5. Jarnkrok (1)
6. Frk (10)
7. Ouellet (8)
8. Jensen (13)
9. Sheahan (5)
10. Ferraro (9)
11. Backman (7)
12. Marchenko (14)
13. Tvrdon (19)
14. Coreau (18)
15. Athanasiou (12)
16. De Haas (25)
17. Pulkkinen (11)

I would have gone Nedomlel (23), Pulkkinen (11), and maybe Paterson (16) if I had to round out the top 20 without the guys RWC excluded.

I think RWC has Backman and Pulkkinen WAY too high, and I think ranking Sheahan ahead of Sproul is silly.

Jarnkrok only one spot ahead of Frk? Those two players are worlds apart, both now and in how they project. For someone who dislikes Pulkkinen (and I'm mostly in agreement), you have Frk too high. Frk is prime bust material for me, much like Pulkkinen. Similar issues.

Backman is where he should be on RWC, imo. He's right there with Ouellet, with Sproul being a small notch higher than both, given his ceiling.

 

[jaster]

They don't count Nyquist or DK or Lashoff as prospects

Ok, here's my list with their criteria (with an update to Jurco!):

1. Jarnkrok (1)
2. Mrazek (2)
3. Tatar (3)
4. Sproul (6)
5. Jurco (4)
6. Sheahan (5)
7. Ouellet (8)
8. Backman (7)
9. Ferraro (9)
10. Frk (10)
11. Marchenko (14)
12. Jensen (13)
13. Pulkkinen (11)
14. Athanasiou (12)
15. Paterson (16)
16. Tvrdon (19)
17. Almqvist (15)

If I had to add 3, they would be.... eh, no one else really interests me still.

 

[sarcastro]

Jarnkrok only one spot ahead of Frk? Those two players are worlds apart, both now and in how they project. For someone who dislikes Pulkkinen (and I'm mostly in agreement), you have Frk too high. Frk is prime bust material for me, much like Pulkkinen. Similar issues.

Backman is where he should be on RWC, imo. He's right there with Ouellet, with Sproul being a small notch higher than both, given his ceiling.

Frk has flashed elite, elite skill and already has NHL size and strength. Jarnkrok has played well in a softer league but I still think his size and strength will hold him back at the NHL level. Frk isn't a great skater but from all reports he seems to be getting better in that department, and he has more size and strength than a guy like Pulkkinen.

I agree that Frk has bust potential due to his skating, but Jarnkrok has bust potential due to his size IMO. Dude's skinny as hell. I'm not prepared to crown the guy the next Datsyuk and say he can play twice as strong as he looks. Got to see him do it on this side of the pond before I'll buy in fully. Keep in mind I do have him one spot higher than Frk.

I have Frk ranked 4 slots ahead of RWC. Here are the 4 guys they have higher that I like less than Frk:

Backman - he's the guy I have the hardest time getting excited about, that everyone else is just gaga over. I understand he had a good offensive year, but I'm baffled as to how RWC can jack up his ranking at the same time they put "very slender without much strength. Finesse player who is not remotely physical" on his RWC prospect page. What happens to skinny, weak, non-physical finesse defensemen in the NHL? Austin?

http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/mattias-backman/

Ferraro - I like what he did this year but Frk's skill level puts his ceiling so much higher.

Ouellet - maybe I should have him higher, but I don't. The Wings need goal scorers, so I'm giving Frk the tie there.

Sheahan -

Maybe this shouldn't bother me, but it does. I don't trust the guy and he has looked lousy in his two cups of coffee at the NHL level. Ferraro looks like the better prospect at this point and I have him lower than Frk as well.

 

[Henkka]

Backman - he's the guy I have the hardest time getting excited about, that everyone else is just gaga over. I understand he had a good offensive year, but I'm baffled as to how RWC can jack up his ranking at the same time they put "very slender without much strength. Finesse player who is not remotely physical" on his RWC prospect page. What happens to skinny, weak, non-physical finesse defensemen in the NHL? Austin?

They disappear like Nicklas Lidström.

 

[SoupNazi]

I nominate that this, with Sheahan's face, be Flashy's official GDT picture for Riley forever.

 

[jaster]

Frk has flashed elite, elite skill and already has NHL size and strength. Jarnkrok has played well in a softer league but I still think his size and strength will hold him back at the NHL level. Frk isn't a great skater but from all reports he seems to be getting better in that department, and he has more size and strength than a guy like Pulkkinen.

I agree that Frk has bust potential due to his skating, but Jarnkrok has bust potential due to his size IMO. Dude's skinny as hell. I'm not prepared to crown the guy the next Datsyuk and say he can play twice as strong as he looks. Got to see him do it on this side of the pond before I'll buy in fully. Keep in mind I do have him one spot higher than Frk.

That argument is just too caught up in the size thing for me. We've see this countless times. Datsyuk was a weak shrimp when he came to the league. Hudler (oh no I didn't!). People complained about Smith before he went pro for being too skinny and weak. Nyquist. These kind of guys, with lots of skill, all end up bulking up to a sufficient level. Jarnkrok will be fine in that department.

I have Frk ranked 4 slots ahead of RWC. Here are the 4 guys they have higher that I like less than Frk:

Backman - he's the guy I have the hardest time getting excited about, that everyone else is just gaga over. I understand he had a good offensive year, but I'm baffled as to how RWC can jack up his ranking at the same time they put "very slender without much strength. Finesse player who is not remotely physical" on his RWC prospect page. What happens to skinny, weak, non-physical finesse defensemen in the NHL? Austin?

http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/mattias-backman/

Ferraro - I like what he did this year but Frk's skill level puts his ceiling so much higher.

Ouellet - maybe I should have him higher, but I don't. The Wings need goal scorers, so I'm giving Frk the tie there.

Sheahan - a boozing teletubby

Maybe this shouldn't bother me, but it does. I don't trust the guy and he has looked lousy in his two cups of coffee at the NHL level. Ferraro looks like the better prospect at this point and I have him lower than Frk as well.

Backman - see above comments. Same thing. Hell, Lidstrom was the same height and barely 5 pounds heavier that Backman at the same age. And his scouting report could have just as easily read "very slender without much strength. Finesse player who is not remotely physical." Backman will not be the next Lidstrom, but at the same time, his size is not really an issue. He'll fill out.

Ferraro/Ouellet/Sheahan - It's not so much that I'm bullish on these guys to have them ahead of Frk as much as I just don't like Frk much. From his poor skating and wildly inaccurate shot to reports of him being a bit of an out-of-shape chubster who doesn't backcheck to the fact that his point totals are inflated by far superior linemates.... I just see him as another Pulkkinen. They don't project well at the NHL level, and are therefor often over-rated.

 

[sarcastro]

They disappear like Nicklas Lidström.

There's only ever been one Lidstrom. Backman is not Lidstrom. I think people make the mistake of thinking that because he's Swedish, the Wings drafted him, and he plays a soft game, that somehow this means he's Lidstrom 2.0.

Maybe he'll be a great NHLer, we have no idea. But the odds of him making it with a complete lack of a physical game are much longer than people are willing to accept.

That argument is just too caught up in the size thing for me. We've see this countless times. Datsyuk was a weak shrimp when he came to the league. Hudler (oh no I didn't!). People complained about Smith before he went pro for being too skinny and weak. Nyquist. These kind of guys, with lots of skill, all end up bulking up to a sufficient level. Jarnkrok will be fine in that department.

Not to stir up this old chestnut again, but if Jarnkrok is Hudler 2.0 then it's a huge disappointment for a guy that's the #1 prospect in this system. The bar should be much, much higher. And unlike Pavel or Z, he wasn't picked at the back of the draft - he was a 2nd rounder.

Backman - see above comments. Same thing. Hell, Lidstrom was the same height and barely 5 pounds heavier that Backman at the same age. And his scouting report could have just as easily read "very slender without much strength. Finesse player who is not remotely physical." Backman will not be the next Lidstrom, but at the same time, his size is not really an issue. He'll fill out.

See my previous comment here. Size isn't the concern with Backman, it's style of play. You have to be able to give and take a hit, minimum, to play defense in the NHL. Skinny, weak, finesse defensemen have long careers in Europe but they get crushed in the NHL. Hell, European pro leagues are littered with skinny, weak, finesse defensemen with decent size that the Wings drafted. Seluyanov. Blatak. Backstrom. Mielonen. Etc.

Ferraro/Ouellet/Sheahan - It's not so much that I'm bullish on these guys to have them ahead of Frk as much as I just don't like Frk much. From his poor skating and wildly inaccurate shot to reports of him being a bit of an out-of-shape chubster who doesn't backcheck to the fact that his point totals are inflated by far superior linemates.... I just see him as another Pulkkinen. They don't project well at the NHL level, and are therefor often over-rated.

From the video I've seen on Frk, his shot is lethal and doesn't appear wild at all. He also moves well enough from what I've seen - not a burner but no Hudler Flintstone feet either.

We heard the "he's not that good, he just has great linemates" line about Jurco as well, and he looks like he's coming along quite nicely. We'll see how he does in GR. I expect Frk to start slowly in GR like Jurco did, partially due to the adjustment he has to make to the pace and physicality of the AHL, and partially because the GR roster is going to be absolutely loaded next year.

 

[ChadS]

Bäckman isn't as soft as RWC make him seem. I believe "Finesse player who is not even remotely physical" is what they said after he was drafted but that's two years ago and he's developed a lot since. This year he showed much more aggressiveness and physicality, and his penalty minutes nearly doubled also for what it's worth.

 

[Henkka]

There's only ever been one Lidstrom. Backman is not Lidstrom. I think people make the mistake of thinking that because he's Swedish, the Wings drafted him, and he plays a soft game, that somehow this means he's Lidstrom 2.0.

Tobias Enström is great NHLr and he is the midget of all midgets at defensive end. Smaller and softer than Adan Almquist ever is. Lidström was not only "soft" defenceman that manages well in NHL. Open your eyes.

 

[joe89]

There's only ever been one Lidstrom. Backman is not Lidstrom. I think people make the mistake of thinking that because he's Swedish, the Wings drafted him, and he plays a soft game, that somehow this means he's Lidstrom 2.0.

Maybe he'll be a great NHLer, we have no idea. But the odds of him making it with a complete lack of a physical game are much longer than people are willing to accept.

Backman plays like most Swedish defensemen. Plays aggressively along the boards and in front of net, blocks shots, bodychecks with the only purpose of separating the other player from the puck. What is considered soft? RWC's write-up on the kid makes me cringe.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Backman plays like most Swedish defensemen. Plays aggressively along the boards and in front of net, blocks shots, bodychecks with the only purpose of separating the other player from the puck. What is considered soft? RWC's write-up on the kid makes me cringe.

Over the past few years, I've noticed that most prospect profile's(from various sources) note that a player is "soft" if the player doesn't crush people.

As long as Backman plays defense well I don't really care how hard he hits people.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Over the past few years, I've noticed that most prospect profile's(from various sources) note that a player is "soft" if the player doesn't crush people.

As long as Backman plays defense well I don't really care how hard he hits people.

There are different levels to it, and I think the distinction isn't made often enough.

It's sort of like:

1. Doesn't hit

2. Doesn't hit and doesn't check

3. Doesn't hit and doesn't check and is afraid to be hit

4. Doesn't hit and doesn't check and is afraid to be hit or checked

From everything I've read and seen, Backman is #1. That's a perfectly acceptable thing for a defenseman to be, IMO. I don't care how bruised the other team is as long as they lost.

 

[sarcastro]

Tobias Enström is great NHLr and he is the midget of all midgets at defensive end. Smaller and softer than Adan Almquist ever is. Lidström was not only "soft" defenceman that manages well in NHL. Open your eyes.

You're referring to the same Tobias Enstrom who has missed 56 of 212 games the last 3 seasons with injuries, including 3 different injuries in the shortened 2013 season alone?

Yeah, nothing at all to be worried about there, his smallness and softness isn't holding him back at all...

 

[AvsRobin]

McKenzie says EDM will most likely move their 7th overall pick. Would you guys be interested in moving up? What would you give for it?

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

McKenzie says EDM will most likely move their 7th overall pick. Would you guys be interested in moving up? What would you give for it?

Probably not what EDM wants. EDM probably wants Jarnkrok+18th+something else. I'd do Kindl+18th+3rd round pick or something.

 

[AvsRobin]

Probably not what EDM wants. EDM probably wants Jarnkrok+18th+something else. I'd do Kindl+18th+3rd round pick or something.

Or perhaps Smith+2nd/3rd+18th for 7th overall. Edmonton is probably looking for d-mans anyway.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Or perhaps Smith+2nd/3rd+18th for 7th overall. Edmonton is probably looking for d-mans anyway.

I'd do Kindl, but I'd be hesitant to include Smith. I think he has higher upside than Kindl. The Oilers also might not want Smith because he's very similar to a guy they already have in Schultz. They want stability, not more risky offensive guys.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

)% chance that I would trade smith for the 7th even straight up

their is a probbaly at best a 60% chance the 7th overall pick is in fact better then smith, let alone adding the 18th overall pick

outside the top 3 even in "stacked drafts" is a crap shoot

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

McKenzie says EDM will most likely move their 7th overall pick. Would you guys be interested in moving up? What would you give for it?

I think they would be interested if Lindholm is still on the board. I doubt they move heaven and earth for Monohan though.

Realistically it will be pricey though. Guessing they would offer Kindl/Quincey and Tatar, don't know if once Tatar is included they offer the 18th pick, maybe they offer the second. The involvement of Tatar will make a lot of people unhappy around here.

 

[AvsRobin]

)% chance that I would trade smith for the 7th even straight up

their is a probbaly at best a 60% chance the 7th overall pick is in fact better then smith, let alone adding the 18th overall pick

outside the top 3 even in "stacked drafts" is a crap shoot

I dont mean to start a fight here Wings fans bu....You honestly wouldn't trade Smith straight up for the 7th overall? You honestly believe there is only a 60% chance that the 7th overall player in the deepest draft since 2003 is better than Brendan Smith?

 

[mindfly]

)% chance that I would trade smith for the 7th even straight up

their is a probbaly at best a 60% chance the 7th overall pick is in fact better then smith, let alone adding the 18th overall pick

outside the top 3 even in "stacked drafts" is a crap shoot

You don't think a Monahan/Lindholm will have a better career than Smith?

 

[InjuredChoker]

I dont mean to start a fight here Wings fans bu....You honestly wouldn't trade Smith straight up for the 7th overall? You honestly believe there is only a 60% chance that the 7th overall player in the deepest draft since 2003 is better than Brendan Smith?

Well, 1999 draft was supposed to be one of the best ever... we don't know until 5 or 10 years how good this draft will be.. but as of now, it's looking good.

2012 Mathew Dumba D Red Deer (WHL) Minnesota Wild
2011 Mark Scheifele C Barrie (OHL) Winnipeg Jets
2010 Jeff Skinner C Kitchener (OHL) Carolina Hurricanes
2009 Nazem Kadri C London (OHL) Toronto Maple Leafs
2008 Colin Wilson C Boston U. Nashville Predators
2007 Jakub Voracek C Halifax (QMJHL) Columbus Blue Jackets
2006 Kyle Okposo RW Des Moines (USHL) New York Islanders
2005 Jack Skille RW U.S. Junior National Team (Intl) Chicago Blackhawks
2004 Rostislav Olesz C Vitkovice HC (Czech) Florida Panthers
2003 Ryan Suter D U.S. Junior National Team (Intl) Nashville Predators

7th ovr. picks of last 10 years.. The bolded are the only ones that I'm certain Smith will be better.

I'd do that trade in a second but no chance that EDM would.