Top 20 Canucks Defencemen All-Time #4

[MS]

For the same reason Mark Messier was the best player to put on a Canucks jersey...doesn't mean he was the best Canucks player ever.

I disagree that Reinhart was a 2nd pairing guy, he was (at least IMO) one of the best defensemen in the league in his prime (when healthy), I think his defensive work gets very overlooked because of how good he was on the PP....he was a smart, efficient defender.

Best defender ever to wear a Canuck jersey is a bit different from the purpose of this poll.

I'm not saying he was crap defensively. But Lidster was the true #1 defender on that team, and the guy doing all the heavy defensive lifting. Reinhart was an old mid-pairing guy with a wonky back who could still do great stuff on the PP. But I take issue with the notion that his performances here were the best we've ever seen from a Canuck defender. Most offensively skilled or best PP QB, maybe.

 

[Canucker]

Best defender ever to wear a Canuck jersey is a bit different from the purpose of this poll.

I'm not saying he was crap defensively. But Lidster was the true #1 defender on that team, and the guy doing all the heavy defensive lifting. Reinhart was an old mid-pairing guy with a wonky back who could still do great stuff on the PP. But I take issue with the notion that his performances here were the best we've ever seen from a Canuck defender. Most offensively skilled or best PP QB, maybe.

Reinhart was only 28-29 when he played here, only 1 year older than Lidster, and he was hardly a mid pairing guy...he did have a wonky back, which ended his career early, but the guy was a stud when he was healthy, even in his final 2 years in Van...he was the leading scorer on the team in his last year playing. Lidster was a quality defenseman, but give me a healthy Reinhart any day of the week.

 

[MS]

Reinhart was only 28-29 when he played here, only 1 year older than Lidster, and he was hardly a mid pairing guy...he did have a wonky back, which ended his career early, but the guy was a stud when he was healthy, even in his final 2 years in Van...he was the leading scorer on the team in his last year playing. Lidster was a quality defenseman, but give me a healthy Reinhart any day of the week.

Again, in 1988-89 he had 39 points in the PP and 18 at ES, and was outscored at ES by Garth Butcher. Similar story the following year. He was obviously an excellent player, but the majority of his impact was limited to the PP.

When you look at ES/SH TOI on those teams, Lidster was getting the most minutes and Butcher the 2nd most.

When he came here, I think there was an effect of 'wow, this is what it's like to actually have an elite PP QB!' which has somehow over time turned into 'Reinhart was the best Canuck defender we've ever had.'

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

When he came here, I think there was an effect of 'wow, this is what it's like to actually have an elite PP QB!' which has somehow over time turned into 'Reinhart was the best Canuck defender we've ever had.'

maybe we should just be happy that no one remembers jeff brown that way.

 

[Canucker]

Again, in 1988-89 he had 39 points in the PP and 18 at ES, and was outscored at ES by Garth Butcher. Similar story the following year. He was obviously an excellent player, but the majority of his impact was limited to the PP.

When you look at ES/SH TOI on those teams, Lidster was getting the most minutes and Butcher the 2nd most.

When he came here, I think there was an effect of 'wow, this is what it's like to actually have an elite PP QB!' which has somehow over time turned into 'Reinhart was the best Canuck defender we've ever had.'

Where do you find the TOI stats for those years? Didn't think they kept those stats at that point?

I'm not saying he's the best Canuck defenseman ever, my vote goes to Lumme for that...but I do think Reinhart is the best defenseman to wear a Canuck jersey.

 

[MS]

Where do you find the TOI stats for those years? Didn't think they kept those stats at that point?

I'm not saying he's the best Canuck defenseman ever, my vote goes to Lumme for that...but I do think Reinhart is the best defenseman to wear a Canuck jersey.

They don't - however you can estimate TOI with a reasonable degree of reliability from GF/GA numbers.

The 2nd part of your statement might be true, but that's based primarily on what he did as a Calgary Flame.

 

[Regal]

Again, in 1988-89 he had 39 points in the PP and 18 at ES, and was outscored at ES by Garth Butcher. Similar story the following year. He was obviously an excellent player, but the majority of his impact was limited to the PP.

When you look at ES/SH TOI on those teams, Lidster was getting the most minutes and Butcher the 2nd most.

When he came here, I think there was an effect of 'wow, this is what it's like to actually have an elite PP QB!' which has somehow over time turned into 'Reinhart was the best Canuck defender we've ever had.'

Butcher also played more 14 more games that year, and the following year Reinhart splits were definitely better with 25 EV points and 31 on the PP. In 67 games, 25 EV points is pretty solid. That would be a 30 EV points pace. That same year, after Coffey's 54 EV points, the next highest was Iafrate with 42. MacInnis had 35 in 78 games, Bourque had 36 in 76 games. Most elite guys were in the mid-30s, and Reinhart was on a team that was 2nd to last in points and goals. He might not have been an elite scorer, but I wouldn't say he couldn't be a very good puck mover at even strength.

I've always thought points are overrated when it comes to judging the offensive impact of defensemen anyway, as the ability to bring the puck up the ice in transition is the most important part, and that doesn't always lead to points once the puck is in the zone. A lot of defensemen like Butcher will pick up points by supporting the offense, but don't create much on their own. When Edler and Ehrhoff were together, they scored similarly at even strength, but I think it was clear that Ehrhoff was the one who created more offense. Reinhart sounds a lot like someone like Keith Yandle, who is similarly a great PP quarterback, and led some poor Arizona teams in scoring without a lot of EV points.