Compilation of posts on Nels Stewart from the HOH centers project
Link to overpass's thread thread on Nels' rookie season (the best season of his career and one of the best rookie seasons ever):
Nels Stewart and the 1926 Montreal Maroons
The information is the thread is quite long and detailed. I'm not going to repost here, but I'd urge voters to at least skim the OP of that thread.
My short response:
TheDevilMadeMe said:
Well done (overpass). The profile of Stewart after his career was big, mean, smart, elite stickhandler, slow, and incredibly lazy. I am not surprised that when he was motivated, he could have been a strong two-way player in an era of no-forward passing (so skating was less important).
Motivation seems key.
I found this article where one writer gave his All-Star selections for the 1928-29 season. It was during a brief period in Stewart's career when he played left wing:
He chose Nels Stewart as his All Star LW, followed by Joliat closely over George Hay
About Stewart:
a big man, dangerously rough at times, a very hard man to check, and one of the most finished players around the goal. In one game at Montreal I saw Stewart back-check like a most enthusiastic rookie, but after his team had scored two goals, he assumed his careless manner, merely standing around until someone brought the puck up to him... must drive a manager frantic... but when bearing down, he is the best left wing in the game.
The Morning Leader - Google News Archive Search
SO by 1928-29, Stewart's "careless manner" of standing around letting his teammates do all the work was already well established, though he was still a strong backchecker when he wanted to be.
Then there's this passage from Eddie Shore and that Old Time Hockey, quoted in Dreakmur's ATD profile:
The Maroons center, Nels Stewart, had it in for Shore all night. He managed a stiff check, but otherwise could not get the Bruin. As Boston scored more unanswered goals, Stewart’s frustration grew, and in the third period he took it out on Frank Frederickson, caught off balance from just having shot the puck near the boards. Stewart was known to be so lazy that he bothered to move his hefty frame only to take a shot on net or to hit somebody, and on this occasion, true to form, he leisurely shifted his bulk over a few inches to connect with Frederickson. The Bruin went up into the air, hitting his head off the wire fence above the back boards, bounced off, and landed back on the ice, face down. He didn’t move. Fans leapt into the ice and Frederickson was carried off, comatose, by the faithful to the dressing room.
But that book was written well after Stewart's career.
My take is that Stewart was capable of being a force all over the ice (at least prior to the forward pass), but that as his career went on, he got lazier and lazier, letting his linemates do all the hard work. The famous "S Line" (Babe Siebert, Nels Stewart, Hooley Smith) basically turned the two wingers (who were good enough to be HHOFers when not playing with Stewart) into glorified grinders who would do all the puck retrieval and backchecking for the line, while Stewart's slow ass cherrypicked.
This is consistent with Stewart's awards recognition. He won his second Hart Trophy in 1929-30, but barely factors into the awards voting in the 1930s, despite still racking up the goals.
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One minor factoid about Stewart: He was the second center of his generation enshrined in the HHOF. Morenz (1945) then Stewart (1952), then Frank Boucher (1958).
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Posts on Stewart's brief stint as a defenseman early in his career:
The game story from February 7, 1927 sheds some light on how Nels Stewart was used on defense by Eddie Gerard with the Montréal Maroons. The game story itself is a great read offering insight into pre forward pass NHL hockey:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=4XwuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=5osFAAAAIBAJ&hl=fr&pg=6544,844175
The paragraph above the team rosters and summary détails how Eddie Gerard moved Nels Stewart back to defense in an effort to catch-up from a one goal deficit. Cecil Hart countered by playing Sylvio Mantha at right wing.
Nels Stewart was a LHS so playing a defenseman like Sylvio Mantha would put him opposite Nels Stewart playing LD as a checker.
The game story also raises questions about Nels Stewart and speed. From the article it is clear that the Canadiens held a speed advantage over the Maroons, especially at center. Yet the speed that Nels Stewart brought when positioned on defense was such that a regular winger was not sufficient to cover him. An extra defenseman had to be used
This tends to indicate that Nels Stewart did not have the elite Howie Morenz speed but he definitely had at least typical center speed that required special attention.
TheDevilMadeMe said:
I think the most interesting part of the article is that the motivation for moving Stewart back to D was to get an extra forward in the lineup to try to come back from a deficit. I didn't see anything in the article referring to Stewart's speed though, and we have several other sources that refer to his lack of speed, even as a fairly young player.
Nels Stewart vs Joe Malone as goal scorers
I'm burying the bulk of this in a quote, as Malone went a few rounds ago.
TheDevilMadeMe said:
Why just goal scoring and not points? 2 reasons:
1) The recording of assists at the time was relatively spotty, especially when Joe Malone played. Assists were recorded for Stewart's career, but at a lower level than today. For a good portion of Malone's career, they were not officially recorded.
2) Neither player was known as much of a playmaker, so focusing on goals is focusing on what each man did best.
I'm treating the NHA the same as the NHL, since it was basically the same league under a different name.
Top 10 goal finishes
Malone: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 5, 4, 4, 6
Stewart: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9
Doing it this way is something of an apples to oranges comparison because half the talent was in the Western Leagues during Malone's career, while only one of Stewart's goal scoring titles (and his only Art Ross) occurred before the last Western League folded.
An attempt to equalize the competition = Vs2 for pre-consolidation seasons and Vs4 for post-consolidation seasons
I dislike the use of Vs1, because it makes it impossible to score over 100. Basically, Vs2 is the player's percentage of the 2nd best scorer, and Vs4 is the percentage of the fourth best scorer.
Rationale = when only about half the world's talent was in the NHA/NHL, the 2nd best NHA/NHL scorer was approximately equal to the 4th best NHA/NHL scorer after consolidation. Remember this is goals only.
Joe Malone is being compared to the 2nd best goal scorer in the NHA/NHL for his career. Nels Stewart is being compared to the 2nd best in 1925-26, 4th best for all seasons after that.
Malone Vs2/4 goal scoring scores: 148, 122, 105, 100, 100, 82, 77, 77, 75
Stewart Vs2/4 goal scoring scores: 124, 121, 117, 110, 100, 100, 100, 95, 90, 89, 85, 82, 76, 74
I'll leave my conclusions outside the quote:
- Joe Malone's 1913 NHA season (when he score 43 goals vs 29 for second place) is the most impressive goal scoring season between the two players.
- Overall, their best 5 years as goal scorers are too close to call (a 575-572 margin for Malone is easily within the margin of error for something like this)
- Nels Stewart had significantly more longevity as an elite goal scorer, easily beating Malone in every season past the 5 year mark, and having an overall 14-8 advantage in relevant seasons.
I don't think that, as a group, players of Malone's generation had longevity that was any worse than Stewart's generation (see Newsy Lalonde), so I think a straight up comparison of their longevity as elite players is fair.
New 2019 comment: 2 factors in Joe Malone's favor that weren't originally present in my OP:
1) While Stewart certainly seemed capable of driving the play in the late 1920s, for the bulk of his goal scoring prime in the 1930s, he seemed to lazily stand or skate around as a pure finisher and let teammates do all the hard work. How much of this was due to laziness and how much of it was due to the greater role of speed in game after the forward pass was allowed in 1930 (Stewart was a notorious slow skater).
2) Malone seems to have been "ok" defensively. Stewart was actually pretty good as a rookie, but was a floater for most of his career.
That said, I don't think Stewart should go too far below Malone.
Relevant to this round, I'd like to compare Stewart to Brett Hull.
@Hockey Outsider , do you have the VsX equivalent for just goal scoring between Hull and Stewart?
