Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 10

Canadiens1958

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Nov 30, 2007
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Dionne WAS the Kings and it was a credit on how good he was that he finished with the career that he had. Just looking at Dionne's numbers and I didn't even know this one. In the 1974-75 season, he lead the league in SH goals with 10 and finished within 19 in his career. 2 Pearson's in a row and 3 top 3 Hart trophy finalists in consecutive years puts him a universe ahead of Gartner. To be fair, Gartner also lead the league in SH goals with 7 in 1986-87 and had 24 for his career.

Which solidifies my point.

Eye catching stat on a below average PK. 19 total SHG,less 10 means that regardless of the 10 spot one season Dionne was not a good choice for the PK.

Underlines the paradoxical nature of his play and career.
 

BenchBrawl

Registered User
Jul 26, 2010
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Guess we are just killing time til the next thread, so I'll answer this.



I agree those are the best 3 remaining goalies, as all were the best of their respective generations and all 3 had at least some playoff heroics. After those 3, the waters get muddy indeed.

Of the 3, I think Gardiner is clear #3 because of lack of longevity.

Actually, double quoting, Clint Benedict has a good case to be part of this group.He was crucial to the 1920, 1921 and 1923 SCs.He was arguably the MVP if we only consider those three cups.

Plus his contribution to the Maroons, which I'm less familiar with.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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I'm still not quite sure as to why there will be such a gap between Sawchuk and Gardiner/Vezina/Brimsek/Benedict
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
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Brooklyn
Actually, double quoting, Clint Benedict has a good case to be part of this group.He was crucial to the 1920, 1921 and 1923 SCs.He was arguably the MVP if we only consider those three cups.

Plus his contribution to the Maroons, which I'm less familiar with.

Maybe Benedict will be rehabbed in my mind - almost everything I have read of contemporary accounts has him well behind Vezina. And he seemed to be less important than Gerard for the dynasty (though he obviously did more outside the dynasty than Gerard, who didn't play).
 

BenchBrawl

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Jul 26, 2010
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Maybe Benedict will be rehabbed in my mind - almost everything I have read of contemporary accounts has him well behind Vezina. And he seemed to be less important than Gerard for the dynasty (though he obviously did more outside the dynasty than Gerard, who didn't play).

I'm not so sure about that, but it's very hard to separate the relative merit of each player, especially Eddie Gerard.At first glance George Boucher was actually more important to the dynasty than Gerard, even ignoring 1927.Is that the case? Hard to say.

By going game to game, and trying to come up with some sort of "three stars of the match" system based on the summaries, Benedict would come out ahead of Gerard IMO (all of this is obviously debatable, as it is hard to assign the three stars in many games).But Gerard was a defensive defenseman, and his style wasn't suited for high praise in any given game; he was not spectacular like George Boucher nor was he the queen of the chess board like Nighbor, nor was he a goalie who can stop pucks and have his performance noticed.

Gerard's case is more global, based on what people said overall.Not based on the game to game summaries (at least in the playoffs).

Seems too close to call.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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I'm not so sure about that, but it's very hard to separate the relative merit of each player, especially Eddie Gerard.At first glance George Boucher was actually more important to the dynasty than Gerard, even ignoring 1927.Is that the case? Hard to say.

By going game to game, and trying to come up with some sort of "three stars of the match" system based on the summaries, Benedict would come out ahead of Gerard IMO (all of this is obviously debatable, as it is hard to assign the three stars in many games).But Gerard was a defensive defenseman, and his style wasn't suited for high praise in any given game; he was not spectacular like George Boucher nor was he the queen of the chess board like Nighbor, nor was he a goalie who can stop pucks and have his performance noticed.

Seems too close to call.

I'm going mostly on what was written about them after the dynasty was over. Not game-by-game accounts.

Anyway, this is OT for now, but to see what I mean, read overpass's Eddie Gerard profile on the ATD board. It's full of really high praise. Or look at the all-time all-star teams.
 

ChiTownPhilly

Not Too Soft
Feb 23, 2010
2,095
1,381
AnyWorld/I'mWelcomeTo
We're going to have to get into the Clegthorny undergrowth sometime- so maybe it happens next Round. If I had to predict ONE nominee to materialize, though, it would be Malkin. [Like I said, not anxious...]
 

Michael Farkas

Grace Personified
Jun 28, 2006
13,350
7,830
NYC
www.HockeyProspect.com
MacInnis, Pronger and Malkin would be nice additions in my book...though, maybe I have some odd romanticized image of MacInnis in my head and I should go back and watch him more when the time comes...
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,667
16,392
Games played from shorter season. Sawchuk played during 70 or more game seasons, others listed short or 6o games at most seasons.

If your point was that such a gap would appear for a terribly bad reason, then, I have no choice but to agree.

... Not that Sawchuk would often play 70 games in the first place.
 
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Nick Hansen

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Sep 28, 2017
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MacInnis, Pronger and Malkin would be nice additions in my book...though, maybe I have some odd romanticized image of MacInnis in my head and I should go back and watch him more when the time comes...

Agreed about Pronger and Malkin, not sure about Macinnis either but he had a really great career. The guy won a Smythe at 25 and was Norris-2 as a 39-year old with quite a bit of good stuff in between.

I don't get people who want Lindros involved at this point in time...I was thinking about Pronger when that discussion came up. No way Lindros goes before him in my mind.
 
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Dennis Bonvie

Registered User
Dec 29, 2007
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Connecticut
Agreed about Pronger and Malkin, not sure about Macinnis either but he had a really great career. The guy won a Smythe at 25 and was Norris-2 as a 39-year old with quite a bit of good stuff in between.

I don't get people who want Lindros involved at this point in time...I was thinking about Pronger when that discussion came up. No way Lindros goes before him in my mind.

Forsberg is already involved, don't see a big gap between him and Lindros.
 

Nick Hansen

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Sep 28, 2017
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Forsberg is already involved, don't see a big gap between him and Lindros.

Forsberg was elite until he was like 33 or something. When Lindros left Philly - at 26 years old of age - he wasn't the same guy. A ghost of the real Lindros. Forsberg was a force up until he decided to leave the NHL (and great in Sweden after that).
 
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Dennis Bonvie

Registered User
Dec 29, 2007
29,206
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Connecticut
Forsberg was elite until he was like 33 or something. When Lindros left Philly - at 26 years old - he wasn't the same guy. A ghost of the real Lindros. Forsberg was a force up until he decided to leave the NHL (and great in Sweden after that).

But at his best, Lindros was the bigger force. And he actually played more NHL (regular season) games than Forsberg.
 

Nick Hansen

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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But at his best, Lindros was the bigger force. And he actually played more NHL (regular season) games than Forsberg.

Yeah, I think that is a reasonable claim but my opinion always was that when Lindros lost his physical edge, which Forsberg also did, Lindros couldn't be as big of an impact on the game. He actually wasn't that interesting after that. Complete ghost as I said. Forsberg simply was a much more intelligent player IMO. Even despite the more games, Forsberg was AS-1 three times, Lindros was once. Similar numbers of Hart and Ross, but Forsberg did it in a 'real' season and not in a shortened year.

Lindros was great and should be on this list, because we're ranking the best players and not the best careers (and I do understand there is a lot of overlap there). Now is not the time for Lindros, though. I think he should end up somewhere between 75-85. I fear Marcel Dionne might be there as well which seems kind of absurd...:dunno:
 
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