Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Preliminary Discussion Thread (Citizens on Patrol)

Where is your list?


  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290
Perhaps there was a size fetish aspect of it, but Hod's brother was just as big

Bruce Stuart was not a bad player. It’s not like I have him on my top 120 list, but he was good enough to be a center piece on a Cup winning team. I also think people had a thing for the cover point, early on. Do you happen to have quotes on Hod’s defensive game, by the way? I would like to spend some of my curiosity.
 

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290
Bruce had an inch or two on Hod, so he was slightly taller, but Hod had around 10 pounds on Bruce which means he had the bulkier height/weight combo. Bruce was more like a young (lankier version of) Mats Sundin frame wise.
 

DannyGallivan

Your world frightens and confuses me
Aug 25, 2017
7,562
10,110
Melonville
I eventually reasoned that it would be more interesting to discuss the players that we valued more as we scrutinized them further.
For me, that would be about half of my pre-original six players. I've heard of them all and have always been familiar with their names, but I've never really given them any more than a footnote in my brain until this exercise.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,672
16,395
- Why, exactly, are we discussing Bruce Stuart?
- I could give my list now, but I want to give it a last look before handing it.
- I hope Round 1 lists will be a bit hyperbolic, personnal (for me, that basically means not ranking Brian Leetch... which I think is probably defensible in the grand scheme of things), with Round 2 being a tad more "objective" in nature.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Canadiens1958

DannyGallivan

Your world frightens and confuses me
Aug 25, 2017
7,562
10,110
Melonville
Well, it's time to fish or cut bait. I will "hand in" my list very shortly (NOTE: it has since been submitted). Here is the official and final demographic breakdown of my list:

Nationality

  • Canadians: 89 (including Stan Mikita but excluding Brett Hull)
  • Russian/Soviet Union: 13
  • USA: 7 (including Brett Hull)
  • Sweden: 4
  • Czech (including the pre-split up of the former country, so I'm counting Bratslavia's favorite son, Peter Statsny): 4
  • Finland: 2
  • Slovakia: 1

Positions

  • Centre: 36
  • Defense: 30
  • Goalies: 20
  • Right Wing: 19
  • Left wing: 12
  • "Hybird": 3 (Defenseman/Centre (Red Kelly) and Left Wing/Centre (Mark Messier), Defenseman/Right Wing Dit Clapper)

When/where they played in their prime years (open to interpretation since so many of them were excellent in more than one era)

  • Prime years in Europe: 9
  • Pre-original six: 20
  • Prime years in Original Six: 28
  • Prime years in Post Expansion (67 - 80): 14
  • Prime years in High Scoring era (81-94): 21
  • Prime years in Dead Puck Era (95-2004): 18
  • Prime years in Modern Era: (2006-present): 10
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: quoipourquoi

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
6,428
... not ranking Brian Leetch... which I think is probably defensible in the grand scheme of things),...
Really?

The Conn Smythe winning two-time Norris winner (five times an all star) who scored 1000+ points (8th all time among dmen), 5 times top10 in nhl assists, something most forwards haven't even done (eg., Modano, Lindros, Fedorov).

The world juniors all star and NCAA all star Hobey Baker finalist set the NHL record for goals by a rookie in his Calder trophy debut. He captained USA to the 1996 World Cup victory and had 7 points in 7 games. And he was a 2002 Olympic all star.

He has shattered a lot of franchise records, including more career assists and playoff points than any Ranger ever (including forwards).

He not being on a top120 list is negligent.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ehhedler

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
20,020
2,773
Lake Memphremagog, QC.
- Why, exactly, are we discussing Bruce Stuart?
- I could give my list now, but I want to give it a last look before handing it.
- I hope Round 1 lists will be a bit hyperbolic, personnal (for me, that basically means not ranking Brian Leetch... which I think is probably defensible in the grand scheme of things), with Round 2 being a tad more "objective" in nature.

Nice to see a drift away from counting.
 

DannyGallivan

Your world frightens and confuses me
Aug 25, 2017
7,562
10,110
Melonville
Really?

The Conn Smythe winning two-time Norris winner (five times an all star) who scored 1000+ points (8th all time among dmen), 5 times top10 in nhl assists, something most forwards haven't even done (eg., Modano, Lindros, Fedorov).

The world juniors all star and NCAA all star Hobey Baker finalist set the NHL record for goals by a rookie in his Calder trophy debut. He captained USA to the 1996 World Cup victory and had 7 points in 7 games. And he was a 2002 Olympic all star.

He has shattered a lot of franchise records, including more career assists and playoff points than any Ranger ever (including forwards).

He not being on a top120 list is negligent.
A lot of really good players won't get in some lists who are shoe-ins in others. Leetch is in my list, although almost at the very end. Modano and Lafontaine did not make it. Neither did Shanahan, Kariya, Sundin, either Sedin, Jean Ratelle, Delvecchio and Pat Boutette.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,902
3,557
Edmonton
Submitted my list, haven't been around much since you can only argue over the how many players per position/decade etc so much before getting bored. Doesn't help that for the most part my enthusiasm to talk hockey is tied to the success of the worst franchise.

Excited to get to actual rounds of voting
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,672
16,395
Submitted my list, haven't been around much since you can only argue over the how many players per position/decade etc so much before getting bored. Doesn't help that for the most part my enthusiasm to talk hockey is tied to the success of the worst franchise.

Excited to get to actual rounds of voting

The Edmonton Senators?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sentinel

quoipourquoi

Goaltender
Jan 26, 2009
10,123
4,126
Hockeytown, MI
Big thank you to all of the participants so far!

We’re up to 13 lists already (Art of Sedinery, Canadiens1958, ChiTownPhilly, DannyGallivan, Dennis Bonvie, Hockey Outsider, ImporterExporter, pappyline, quoipourquoi, ResilientBeast, Sentinel, steve141, ted1971), and we’ve reached out to those who had doubles so they have extra time to make the corrections ahead of the upcoming Sunday, October 14th deadline.

We’ll be sending these out to the screeners on Monday, October 15th, with the anticipation of starting Monday, October 22nd or Monday, October 29th (depending on how quick the turnaround time is).
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,610
28,847
Big thank you to all of the participants so far!

We’re up to 13 lists already (Art of Sedinery, Canadiens1958, ChiTownPhilly, DannyGallivan, Dennis Bonvie, Hockey Outsider, ImporterExporter, pappyline, quoipourquoi, ResilientBeast, Sentinel, steve141, ted1971), and we’ve reached out to those who had doubles so they have extra time to make the corrections ahead of the upcoming Sunday, October 14th deadline.

We’ll be sending these out to the screeners on Monday, October 15th, with the anticipation of starting Monday, October 22nd or Monday, October 29th (depending on how quick the turnaround time is).
Screeners being - eliminating lists that are especially awful (era bias/position bias/team bias)?

Sorry been falling out of the discussion lately.
 

ResilientBeast

Proud Member of the TTSAOA
Jul 1, 2012
13,902
3,557
Edmonton
Screeners being - eliminating lists that are especially awful (era bias/position bias/team bias)?

Sorry been falling out of the discussion lately.

I think in the past it's been to make sure there is nothing indefensible like one of the big 4 not even making the list. Or someone only listing players from the 80s forward because "lol the game was trash before then" etc

Or someone in the past had submitted an ATD draft list.
 
  • Like
Reactions: quoipourquoi

quoipourquoi

Goaltender
Jan 26, 2009
10,123
4,126
Hockeytown, MI
Screeners being - eliminating lists that are especially awful (era bias/position bias/team bias)?

Sorry been falling out of the discussion lately.

Yep. Nothing to worry about. It’s mostly about having another set of eyes to make sure each anonymous list isn’t fatally flawed by a common mistake - and then giving enough time to repair it before the discussion begins.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
6,428
... someone only listing players from the 80s forward because "lol the game was trash before then"...
That'd be the height of idiocy.

Eighties scoring stats are overvalued by subsequent generations when considered as raw totals compared to previous eras. Tons of O6 era commentary praise O6 two-way responsibility, tight responsible play compared to less defensive, more run and gun and reckless hit and fight modern hockey of the expansion/diluted 70s and 80s, with a lot of lesser goalies faced in the early expansion era.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
6,428
I still don't know what ATD is.
Click on the History Board subboard "All-Time Draft" (ATD) and there's a treasure trove of research and links, none more accessible for this project than the awesome-researched biographies posted in the linked 'ATD Master Bio' thread linked at the top of the subboard.

I've been researching and participating in ATDs here at HfBoards since 2004. We had to make our own board after our threads clogged up the main History board too much. We were put in the Fantasy boards section for over a decade even though we are factual-based historical appreciation drafters, trying to assess how players compare across eras using a typical academic historical tool: counterfactual reasoning. What if? What if the best from each era played against each other? How are the ways to assess players relative to their OWN era?

In fact, the founders and developers of tbe HOH list projects were experienced ATDers.
 

Captain Bowie

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
27,139
4,414
Where do you have Brodeur? Feels like somebody who could have wildly different positions on the lists.
Definitely. Based on numbers and awards it would pretty easy to place him extremely high, even as the top goaltender on the list. I think that's wrong, and anyone who has a deeper understand knows that as well, but I could see it.

He's my #6 goalie, around the 1/4 mark of the list.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->