Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Preliminary Discussion Thread (Citizens on Patrol)

Where is your list?


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K Fleur

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Mar 28, 2014
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The 05-06 Hurricanes had the 2nd best record in the East. Scored the 3rd most goals in the NHL. They were not a Cinderella team.
 
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Nick Hansen

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
3,119
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The 05-06 Hurricanes had the 2nd best record in the East. Scored the 3rd most goals in the NHL. They were not a Cinderella team.

Okay, maybe I am using the term cinderella team to liberally but nobody expected them to have a RS like that... Going into to the season, practically nobody predicted Oilers - Hurricanes in the finals.
 

K Fleur

Sacrifice
Mar 28, 2014
15,381
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Okay, maybe I am using the term cinderella team to liberally but nobody expected them to have a RS like that... Going into to the season, practically nobody predicted Oilers - Hurricanes in the finals.

That’s fair. I think throughout the season the Finals matchup most everyone thought would happen was Detroit against either Ottawa or Buffalo.
 

Michael Farkas

Grace Personified
Jun 28, 2006
13,352
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Maybe not a cinderella, but they weren't anything special...they didn't hold a candle to Buffalo certainly...it's just that Buffalo lost like their top 5 d-men to injury or whatever...even against NJ, they're scoring overtime winners by bouncing pucks off the ice and then they bounce top shelf under the bar on Brodeur...some slug, maybe Niclas Wallin is scoring on a breakaway...Roloson gets a flat in the first game of the Final and Conklin comes in and promptly loses the game...and they get a rookie goalie to come in, who was playing with his skates tied together during the regular year, to win the Conn Smythe (that I would have given to Rod the Bod, personally)...I mean, that run was certainly...interesting...
 

DannyGallivan

Your world frightens and confuses me
Aug 25, 2017
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Different topic...

Which players were you cheering for to make your list, but you ended up cutting (or not considering) anyways.

For me, it's Cam Neely. For a five season period he was otherworldly... except he missed almost half the games in that period. Kariya is another one for me, as is Cournoyer, Vachon and Worsley.
 

Captain Bowie

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
27,139
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Different topic...

Which players were you cheering for to make your list, but you ended up cutting (or not considering) anyways.

For me, it's Cam Neely. For a five season period he was otherworldly... except he missed almost half the games in that period. Kariya is another one for me, as is Cournoyer, Vachon and Worsley.
This screams Luongo for me. I wanted so bad to have him on the list, but I got to 120 and ended up 2 goalies short of including him. Judging by how many goalies a few people say thay have, I am happy with the fact that SOMEONE included him.
 

Kyle McMahon

Registered User
May 10, 2006
13,301
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Did anyone include Goulet, Hossa, Recchi, Robitaille or Shanahan?

I examined Hossa's case, as I believe he has a viable case as one of the top dozen or so cap-era players, but he came up short. Can't say I really gave the other four much of a look. There were too many more prolific 80s/90s guys. In retrospect, Shanahan probably should have got as much a look as Hossa, but since Marian came up short anyways it's moot. I think I'd have to go a good 200 names deep to get to Recchi, Robitaille, or Goulet in all honesty.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,134
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I examined Hossa's case, as I believe he has a viable case as one of the top dozen or so cap-era players, but he came up short.
I was a HUGE fan of Hossa in his young Ottawa and dominant Atlanta days (bloody robbed of at least a Hart trophy finalist nomination the year he was the franchise's only ever 100 point scorer, yet just as dominant when checking, 21+ minutes per night). I watched EVERY Thrashers game because of him but hockey writers had bigger markets to pay attention to.

Then he went to Pittsburgh and led the Pens in shots, goals and hustle to Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals against the Wings. Detroit smartly picked him up and Hossa got his ONLY EVER all star team selection (a 2nd team nod) in Detroit, as the 8th Red Wing in ice time, covered by hockey writers because he played with Datsyuk and Zetterberg on the defending Stanley Cup champions. Go figure.

Then, in his 30's, he goes and wins three Stanley Cups in Chicago, scoring no less than 15 playoff points each time, playing tight and causing turnovers but less flashy less havoc than in his twenties. People don't realize how physically strong he was in his youth. He had the strength on skates of a Forsberg, absorbing hits eagerly.

As a huge fan of his from day one, I believe he peaked in Atlanta but awards, trophies, and some numbers appear to suggest otherwise.

I think Hossa was CLEARLY better than Recchi (I've played golf with Mark and he'll forgive me the statement). Hossa should be inducted into the hall, given others who are there. But even this huge fan of his cannot justify including him over a Delvecchio or Keon.
 
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sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
11,845
6,290
Maybe not a cinderella, but they weren't anything special...they didn't hold a candle to Buffalo certainly...it's just that Buffalo lost like their top 5 d-men to injury or whatever...even against NJ, they're scoring overtime winners by bouncing pucks off the ice and then they bounce top shelf under the bar on Brodeur...some slug, maybe Niclas Wallin is scoring on a breakaway...Roloson gets a flat in the first game of the Final and Conklin comes in and promptly loses the game...and they get a rookie goalie to come in, who was playing with his skates tied together during the regular year, to win the Conn Smythe (that I would have given to Rod the Bod, personally)...I mean, that run was certainly...interesting...

4/6 of that defense (Wesley, Hedican, Ward, Wallin) were regulars also during the 2002 run to the finals. Those are not very sexy names, but boringly solid players. Wesley, Hedican and Ward also made it to the finals with other teams, and Wallin made two other conference finals. Perhaps if 5 of your D-men gets injured at the same time there's something wrong with them, or with the team strategy/medical staff/whatever. Vancouver had this same problem around c. 2006–2012 when almost all of their D-men would get simultaneously injured on a seasonal basis.
 

Kyle McMahon

Registered User
May 10, 2006
13,301
4,352
I was a HUGE fan of Hossa in his young Ottawa and dominant Atlanta days (bloody robbed of at least a Hart trophy finalist nomination the year he was the franchise's only ever 100 point scorer, yet just as dominant when checking, 21+ minutes per night). I watched EVERY Thrashers game because of him but hockey writers had bigger markets to pay attention to.

Then he went to Pittsburgh and led the Pens in shots, goals and hustle to Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals against the Wings. Detroit smartly picked him up and Hossa got his ONLY EVER all star team selection (a 2nd team nod) in Detroit, as the 8th Red Wing in ice time, covered by hockey writers because he played with Datsyuk and Zetterberg on the defending Stanley Cup champions. Go figure.

Then, in his 30's, he goes and wins three Stanley Cups in Chicago, scoring no less than 15 playoff points each time, playing tight and causing turnovers but less flashy less havoc than in his twenties. People don't realize how physically strong he was in his youth. He had the strength on skates of a Forsberg, absorbing hits eagerly.

As a huge fan of his from day one, I believe he peaked in Atlanta but awards, trophies, and some numbers appear to suggest otherwise.

I think Hossa was CLEARLY better than Recchi (I've played golf with Mark and he'll forgive me the statement). Hossa should be inducted into the hall, given others who are there. But even this huge fan of his cannot justify including him over a Delvecchio or Keon.

Good run down. Yeah, I snuck Delvecchio onto the end of my list. Not a resume that blows you away, but the longevity and consistency was exceptional, and those who lived through his career tend to speak higher of him than the stats would suggest to observers decades later.

Delvecchio reminds me of Francis, who I also kept on at the very end. I think Recchi is hurt a little by being a nomad. To some that will be irrelevant; it is a very small factor for me though. Not that I had him on the cusp of my list anyway though.

I'm legitimately curious to see the omissions of people who ended up listing guys like Recchi or Robitaille. And I'm sure they're interested in seeing the omissions of guys like me who have Jacques Lemaire and Sven Tumba listed.
 

Captain Bowie

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
27,139
4,414
Vancouver had this same problem around c. 2006–2012 when almost all of their D-men would get simultaneously injured on a seasonal basis.
Oh god, right.

Salo, Mitchell, Bieksa, Edler, Ohlund, Ehrhoff all missed significant time nearly every season. One of the best defences in the league when healthy, that just never happened. Allowed someone like Ryan Fitzpatrick to become a household name*.

But I'm getting off topic. Unless... :badidea:
 

Captain Bowie

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
27,139
4,414
Recchi is as much of a 'nomad' as Coffey was: from oasis to oasis.
The thing about Recchi for me, He played a loooong time, but like the last decade of his career really doesn't add anything to his case from an all-time great perspective. He was a pretty ordinary player from about 2001 and on. And the first decade of his career, while impressive, is not really much to go on compared to the best ever.
 
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Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,538
4,911
Perhaps if 5 of your D-men gets injured at the same time there's something wrong with them, or with the team strategy/medical staff/whatever.

I mean, if there is a pattern (as in your Vancouver example) then yes, but if it just happens once during an important stretch (playoffs), it's mere bad luck. Respectively good luck for the opponent who gets to face an uncharacteristically weakened team.
 

ChiTownPhilly

Not Too Soft
Feb 23, 2010
2,095
1,382
AnyWorld/I'mWelcomeTo
Different topic...

Which players were you cheering for to make your list, but you ended up cutting (or not considering) anyways.
You know- I thought about this- and recognized that we ALL could have stories about the players that we strongly considered, but agonized over leaving out. I eventually reasoned that it would be more interesting to discuss the players that we valued more as we scrutinized them further. After all, we are (in our own internet-warrior way) trying to confer honor to these players, so let me start by honoring these players who migrated up my list-

Ray Bourque- nearly cracked my top-10. Thought he'd be at least half-a-dozen places lower when I began.
Slava Fetisov- I was high on him to begin with. I'm higher on him now. Top 2-dozen material, for me.
Newsy Lalonde- wouldn't have guessed that he'd land in my upper-third. But there he is...
Jarome Iginla- perhaps the one single player I most brutally underrated at the outset. I fixed it, though.
Vladimir Martinec- how much did he mean to those Czechoslovak teams that rivalled mighty Russia?
Sid Abel- I snarkily placed him in the "albedo-guy" enclosure earlier. I should do some penance for that one.
 

Captain Bowie

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
27,139
4,414
Ray Bourque- nearly cracked my top-10. Thought he'd be at least half-a-dozen places lower when I began.
Slava Fetisov- I was high on him to begin with. I'm higher on him now. Top 2-dozen material, for me.
Newsy Lalonde- wouldn't have guessed that he'd land in my upper-third. But there he is...
Jarome Iginla- perhaps the one single player I most brutally underrated at the outset. I fixed it, though.
Vladimir Martinec- how much did he mean to those Czechoslovak teams that rivalled mighty Russia?
Sid Abel- I snarkily placed him in the "albedo-guy" enclosure earlier. I should do some penance for that one.

Bourque - I had no issue getting him in the top 10.
Fetisov - Not quite as high, but just inside the top 30, 8th defenceman.
Lalonde - Not quite as high, but comfortable inside the top 50.
Iginla - I am very high on him, Inside of 90.
Martinec - Still on the outside looking in, just barely. He is a tough omission so far, might still find a way to cram him in.
Abel - On, but not by a ton.
 
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