Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Aggregate List

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'm pretty surprised I had Ullman higher than seventieslord did in round 1.

A little surprised I was the only one with Marty Barry on my list, but it's not like he really had a shot of making the top 100 anyway.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Well on a personal level, my name only appears three times.

Maurice Richard at #4 was a provocative move, and I didn't rank him there in Round 2.

Being the lowest on Turk Broda is totally random.

Being the highest on Georges Boucher doesn't surprise me, and is a point of pride.

Not too bad for a list I put together in extremis the day before the deadline.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm pretty surprised I had Ullman higher than seventieslord did in round 1.

A little surprised I was the only one with Marty Barry on my list, but it's not like he really had a shot of making the top 100 anyway.

I'm surprised I didn't have Barry somewhere in my 100-120 range.I had Modano there IIRC, and Barry fits more or less right in that range for me.

The 100-120 spots were a crapshoot.

 

[TheEye]

Why aren't you up in arms towards the Maple Leaf fan who was the highest on Clancy, Conacher and Horton instead?
I mean... There is a lot of Hab players who actually deserve to make that list, not so much Maple Leafs (comparatively speaking).

Regrettably, that individual is equally biased as well. However, I chose to highlight this specific participant because they evidently seem to think of themselves as an authoritative source of information and insight. Most often, dismissively so.

Confirmation bias is an inherent flaw when participating in any project which ranks things. People tend to parse data in a way which supports their hypothesis and dismiss information which may lead to an alteration of what they think they know.

It's also extremely hard not to overrate the status of an individual if one maintains an emotional attachment to them. I'd also wager that nationality of players likely also plays a factor when considering specific rankings. Although Jagr is ranked highly in this project, might he rank a little higher if he bore a French-Canadian surname and won a couple cups with the Habs? I think we know at least one participant who would consequently rank him accordingly.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Who is the poster with 21 messages coming in with his hot take on the bias of voters?

Why the need to hide your identity? Clearly, you're not a random new poster who just found out about this place.

MXD isn't a Toronto fan, and Canadiens1958 has been defending his point of view for over a decade on this board, so why shouldn't he vote according to this point of view?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, it's not a Francophone thing or whatever nonsense...as I'm pretty sure C1958 isn't high on Roy or Lafleur...

He's stated his case and how he views the game through his lens plenty of times...it's unique, I have a lot of time for it personally because I do get it from a coaching perspective...I'm not saying it's right or perfect or better or whatever...but to just brush it off as "Oh, he's a Canadiens/Francophones homer" is selling him short, and selling yourself shorter...

Look at the guys I'm highest on...is someone gonna call me a "defensemen homer" next...? Don't be a dum dum...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

whereas,

the same voter, whom i don't think i ever noticed participating in the discussion, had ovechkin highest and crosby lowest

could be a coincidence, there could be an explanation other than the most obvious one, could be a lot of things, but how would we know?

 

[TheEye]

Yeah, it's not a Francophone thing or whatever nonsense...as I'm pretty sure C1958 isn't high on Roy or Lafleur...

He's stated his case and how he views the game through his lens plenty of times...it's unique, I have a lot of time for it personally because I do get it from a coaching perspective...I'm not saying it's right or perfect or better or whatever...but to just brush it off as "Oh, he's a Canadiens/Francophones homer" is selling him short, and selling yourself shorter...

Look at the guys I'm highest on...is someone gonna call me a "defensemen homer" next...? Don't be a dum dum...

The individual who ranked Gretzky number six and remains a consistent anomaly with respect to the rankings of Canadiens' players advances an agenda laid bare for all to see. If you don't conclude the obvious in this situation, there is nothing additional I can add to convince you otherwise. It's not a Francophone thing, per se. It's a generational and team-focused bias, in combination with the fundamental misunderstanding that defensive responsibility can be coached and instilled in most players. Offensive ability, however, cannot be instilled or coached. I think it's a general consensus that either you possess that ability or you don't by the time you reach the professional ranks, with rare exception.

For the record, I do agree with the many perspectives that feel Gretzky deserves to be ranked lower than number one. Ranking him at number six is suggestive of intellectual dishonesty or thinking you are the astutest person in the room.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i've been around and followed for a long time but tbh i'm not sure i know/remember c1958's stance on 90s goalies. he is lowest on roy and hasek here, and iirc he ranked hasek by far the lowest in the goalies project. curious the reasoning, if there is a generational or era-specific reason.

i don't always agree but i feel like i always get/learn a lot from c1958's perspectives on these things.

 

[kruezer]

I can't speak for C1958 but there is definitely an argument to be made on the platoon system that Roy played in in the late 80s earlier 90s in Montreal vs. say Glen Hall playing every game. I believe C1958 posted a days of rest related argument earlier on but I don't want to put words in his mouth. It's certainly not without merit.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I was the highest on Lafleur (6th spot), and was perfectly prepared to debate why he was the most talented Hab of all time... but it didn't get to that by the time his name came up. Still, my thoughts on the Flower's immense peak is sincere.

I thought I would be the only one with Hawerchuk on their list, but two others had him as well... and I didn't even rank him the highest.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Yeah, it's not a Francophone thing or whatever nonsense...as I'm pretty sure C1958 isn't high on Roy or Lafleur...

He's stated his case and how he views the game through his lens plenty of times...it's unique, I have a lot of time for it personally because I do get it from a coaching perspective...I'm not saying it's right or perfect or better or whatever...but to just brush it off as "Oh, he's a Canadiens/Francophones homer" is selling him short, and selling yourself shorter...

Look at the guys I'm highest on...is someone gonna call me a "defensemen homer" next...? Don't be a dum dum...

Throw in Geoffrion, Price,.......... Also not Francophone. Eastern European blend would be warmer.

Defensive hockey and winning go together.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

anyway, nobody has remarked on it yet but qpq you win the award for my favourite anomaly vote: hayley wickenheiser at 120.

 

[Canadiens1958]

I can't speak for C1958 but there is definitely an argument to be made on the platoon system that Roy played in in the late 80s earlier 90s in Montreal vs. say Glen Hall playing every game. I believe C1958 posted a days of rest related argument earlier on but I don't want to put words in his mouth. It's certainly not without merit.

Yes, days of rest especially back to back is a factor. Presently the NHL is very big on this in the RS. Mainly for goalies, less so for skaters. Rookie skaters are impacted especially out of the NCAA which is basically a weekend schedule.

 

[sr edler]

Thought my name would pop up more often than it did, although it did pop up a few times towards the end. You will always look at your ranking and think "perhaps I ranked this player too high" or "perhaps I ranked this player too low", but there will also be "controversial" rankings you'll still stand behind. It is what it is.

 

[DannyGallivan]

anyway, nobody has remarked on it yet but qpq you win the award for my favourite anomaly vote: hayley wickenheiser at 120.

Oh, "Hayley"...

I thought he misspelled "Doug". Either way, it was quite the outlier.

 

[Canadiens1958]

i've been around and followed for a long time but tbh i'm not sure i know/remember c1958's stance on 90s goalies. he is lowest on roy and hasek here, and iirc he ranked hasek by far the lowest in the goalies project. curious the reasoning, if there is a generational or era-specific reason.

i don't always agree but i feel like i always get/learn a lot from c1958's perspectives on these things.

Era specific mainly, days of rest, the long NHL adaptation arc - similar to Lafleur. Allow Johnny Bower his AHL honors - much better league than the Czech domestic league in the 1980s and they are equal. Bower won three consecutive MVP in the AHL amongst many honours.

Also Hasek was not a complete goalie. These shortcomings have been listened previously.

Hart Trophies for goalies. Now just another meaningless counting exercise. Theodore and Price won Hart's as well. So what? Goalies on perceived poor/average teams win MVP awards. Doesn't make them good or great, just gets them noticed. Ernie Banks was the NL MVP at shortstop for still terrible Cub teams in 1958 and 1959. Baseball historians recognize that Banks was far from the best shortstop.

 

[ted2019]

Why aren't you up in arms towards the Maple Leaf fan who was the highest on Clancy, Conacher and Horton instead?
I mean... There is a lot of Hab players who actually deserve to make that list, not so much Maple Leafs (comparatively speaking).

I personally think that I was one of the least "homers" when it came to my favorite team. It was important to me to go that route so this list is as good as it could be.

 

[ted2019]

The most surprising thing in all of this is only Gretzky and Orr got ranked #1 out of 32 lists.

I ended up ranking Howe #1 in Round 2, but I thought for sure some people would have ranked him #1 in Round 1; same with Lemieux.

I also changed my mind and voted for Howe in the 2nd round at #1. That's why this was an important exercise.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I personally think that I was one of the least "homers" when it came to my favorite team. It was important to me to go that route so this list is as good as it could be.

You kinda reminded me of the ref who is assigned a game in his home town, only to be extra tough on the home team so he can keep any hidden biases at bay.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Look at the guys I'm highest on...is someone gonna call me a "defensemen homer" next...?

I was only the highest on two goaltenders. That’s surprising.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I have never been more proud of you.

 

[MXD]

Regrettably, that individual is equally biased as well. However, I chose to highlight this specific participant because they evidently seem to think of themselves as an authoritative source of information and insight. Most often, dismissively so.

Confirmation bias is an inherent flaw when participating in any project which ranks things. People tend to parse data in a way which supports their hypothesis and dismiss information which may lead to an alteration of what they think they know.

It's also extremely hard not to overrate the status of an individual if one maintains an emotional attachment to them. I'd also wager that nationality of players likely also plays a factor when considering specific rankings. Although Jagr is ranked highly in this project, might he rank a little higher if he bore a French-Canadian surname and won a couple cups with the Habs? I think we know at least one participant who would consequently rank him accordingly.

The individual who ranked Gretzky number six and remains a consistent anomaly with respect to the rankings of Canadiens' players advances an agenda laid bare for all to see. If you don't conclude the obvious in this situation, there is nothing additional I can add to convince you otherwise. It's not a Francophone thing, per se. It's a generational and team-focused bias, in combination with the fundamental misunderstanding that defensive responsibility can be coached and instilled in most players. Offensive ability, however, cannot be instilled or coached. I think it's a general consensus that either you possess that ability or you don't by the time you reach the professional ranks, with rare exception.

For the record, I do agree with the many perspectives that feel Gretzky deserves to be ranked lower than number one. Ranking him at number six is suggestive of intellectual dishonesty or thinking you are the astutest person in the room.

My main takeaway from this is that biases are okay, except those in favor of French Canadians, who obviously threaten the integrity of the whole process.

You may want to reformulate though. Your choice.

 

[MXD]

I was only the highest on two goaltenders. That’s surprising.

I have never been more proud of you.

And I was the highest on.... Zero (though at least one tie).

 

[Hockey Outsider]

A few stray observations:

The highest-ranking players to not appear on every ballot were Frank Boucher (49), Vladislav Tretiak (52) and Marcel Dionne (60 - he was the highest-ranked play to be missing from multiple lists).

Bill Quackenbush and Busher Jackson are the only players to appear on the majority of lists, who didn't come up for voting.

Several players came up for voting despite appearing on less than half the lists - Russell Bowie, Alexander Maltsev, Vladimir Martinec (appeared on exactly half of the lists), Ron Francis and Scott Niedermayer. None made it to the final list.

The "highest rank" player list features 31 one of us. I can't figure out who yet, but only one of us apparently didn't have an overly optimistic reflection on any player, relative to the group.