Top 10 2012 Draft Prospects

Alessandro Seren Rosso

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1-Zemgus Girgensons C/RW Dubuque Fighting Saints USHL 6'1 181 LAT
2-Alex Galchenyuk LW/C Sarnia Sting OHL 6'1 181 RUS/USA
3-Griffin Reinhart D Edmonton Oil Kings WHL 6'4 198 CAN
4-Nail Yakupov LW Sarnia Sting OHL 5'11 168 RUS
5-Slatter Koekkoek D Peterborough Petes OHL 6'2 183 CAN
6-Ryan Murray D Everett Silvertips WHL 6'0 190 CAN
7-Nick Ebert D Widsor Spitfires OHL 6'1 185 USA
8-Martin Frk RW Halifax Mooseheads QMJHL 6'0 192 CZE
9-Mikhail Grigorenko C CSKA-Krasnaja Armija Moskva MHL 6'2 183 RUS
10-Morgan Rielly D Moose Jaw Warriors WHL 6'0 170 CAN
11-Matt Dumba D Red Deer Rebels WHL 5'11 165 CAN
12-Filip Forsberg LW Leksand J20 SuperElit 6'0 176 SWE
13-Derrick Pouliot D Portland Winterhawks WHL 5'11 170 CAN
14-Nikolai Prokhorkin LW/RW CSKA-Krasnaja Armija MHL 6'2 183 RUS
15-Sebastian Collberg LW/RW Frolunda J20 SuperElit 5'11 174 SWE

What is this list? Is it a ranking or a draft project? Because if it's the second, no way both Grigorenko and Prokhorkin get to the Top-15 IMHO. And Girgensons first? Hm...
 

J17 Vs Proclamation

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What is this list? Is it a ranking or a draft project? Because if it's the second, no way both Grigorenko and Prokhorkin get to the Top-15 IMHO. And Girgensons first? Hm...

But would be Top 15 talent?

You say you think Grigorenko in your eyes would be above Yakupov? We have kept hearing how for 2 years or so how potentially sick Grigorenko is (A less talented Malkin) ; yet he is statistically behind Prokhorkin who as far as i know has never been discussed in the same vein as Grigorenko and Yakupov? How do both compare to recent Russian talent?

Personally i think it is also virtually impossible for Grigorenko to go Top 5. I haven't seen him play, but if you judge him on his MHL stats, he isn't going to be ready for full time KHL play by his draft. Looking at Shanulov this year ; little KHL play means there is absolutely no chance he goes in the Top 30. It's hard enough to get drafted high even if you have KHL experience and success (Tarasenko, Kuznetsov) so take that away and surely it becomes impossible to be taken as high as he is rated with the current climate regarding Russian based players.
 

pouskin74*

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What is this list? Is it a ranking or a draft project? Because if it's the second, no way both Grigorenko and Prokhorkin get to the Top-15 IMHO. And Girgensons first? Hm...

Grigorenko is very good prospect and his final spot in Draft stock dosnt matter at all! in my book he is better prospect than anybody else for draft 2012. dont want do take anything away from Prohkorkin( has been very good on the current season), if he is going to develop as fast as this year then who knows....
 

pouskin74*

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But would be Top 15 talent?

You say you think Grigorenko in your eyes would be above Yakupov? We have kept hearing how for 2 years or so how potentially sick Grigorenko is (A less talented Malkin) ; yet he is statistically behind Prokhorkin who as far as i know has never been discussed in the same vein as Grigorenko and Yakupov? How do both compare to recent Russian talent?

Personally i think it is also virtually impossible for Grigorenko to go Top 5. I haven't seen him play, but if you judge him on his MHL stats, he isn't going to be ready for full time KHL play by his draft. Looking at Shanulov this year ; little KHL play means there is absolutely no chance he goes in the Top 30. It's hard enough to get drafted high even if you have KHL experience and success (Tarasenko, Kuznetsov) so take that away and surely it becomes impossible to be taken as high as he is rated with the current climate regarding Russian based players.

nobody knew anything about Malkin at his age. comparison failed .
 

scoutman1

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Grigorenko is the top talent for this draft IMO, he is big and super skilled and his points in the MHL are actually if you don't know the league well his stats are very impressive, 1st scouting by stats is just a no no in scouting, 2nd in russia assists are hard to come by...
 

KRM

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Grigorenko is the top talent for this draft IMO, he is big and super skilled and his points in the MHL are actually if you don't know the league well his stats are very impressive, 1st scouting by stats is just a no no in scouting, 2nd in russia assists are hard to come by...

What's your opinion on the strenght of the Swedish draft class compared to other years?
 

scoutman1

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What's your opinion on the strenght of the Swedish draft class compared to other years?

super strong year for Sweden, Collberg, Forsberg, Dansk, Folin, Andersson, Karlsson, you could put Henrik Samuelsson there but he is USA too and is playing U17 group for the NTDP...but there are other Swedish guys im just going off the top of my head...that is one impressive group of top caliber players for one draft that could all go first round to early 2nd round in the draft.
 

Daneurism

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super strong year for Sweden, Collberg, Forsberg, Dansk, Folin, Andersson, Karlsson, you could put Henrik Samuelsson there but he is USA too and is playing U17 group for the NTDP...but there are other Swedish guys im just going off the top of my head...that is one impressive group of top caliber players for one draft that could all go first round to early 2nd round in the draft.

Seems like a strong year for all the top countries, do you think this could be a great draft?
 

Czechexpert

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nobody knew anything about Malkin at his age. comparison failed .

That´s simply not true, scouts knew Malkin very well when he played for Russian U-18 as underage. I remember when I saw him for the first time playing for Russian U-18(as UA) at World U-18 Cup(now Hlinka Cup). Skillwise Malkin and Grigorenko are at the same level even if I liked Malkin´s skills probably a bit more(still Grigorenko has skills and tools to be top 5). However the big difference is character and heart, Malkin always played with passion and determination, he made things happen every shift. Grigorenko is lazy, could be invisible for the whole game, lacks character and desire. Unfortunately.
 

S E P H

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Seems like a strong year for all the top countries, do you think this could be a great draft?

This is looking like the best draft year since 2008, very similar also. High end forwards with tons of defensemen. After the top 10 players there are still 6-10 players that have top 10 talent.
 

pouskin74*

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That´s simply not true, scouts knew Malkin very well when he played for Russian U-18 as underage. I remember when I saw him for the first time playing for Russian U-18(as UA) at World U-18 Cup(now Hlinka Cup). Skillwise Malkin and Grigorenko are at the same level even if I liked Malkin´s skills probably a bit more(still Grigorenko has skills and tools to be top 5). However the big difference is character and heart, Malkin always played with passion and determination, he made things happen every shift. Grigorenko is lazy, could be invisible for the whole game, lacks character and desire. Unfortunately.

Grigorenko is already pretty widely known 2 years from now (he is 16 ). Malkin appeared on surface at age 16 but talks about him as possible top 10 or even more started just his early 17-s, so i still stay on fact that comparations arent valid at this point.BTW i dont wanna say that Grigorenko is going to be better..
 

Czechexpert

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Grigorenko is already pretty widely known 2 years from now (he is 16 ). Malkin appeared on surface at age 16 but talks about him as possible top 10 or even more started just his early 17-s, so i still stay on fact that comparations arent valid at this point.BTW i dont wanna say that Grigorenko is going to be better..

It´s true that comparation is not valid because Grigorenko isn´t at the same level as Malkin... Not at all. Yakupov is much better prospect than Grigorenko.
 

pouskin74*

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It´s true that comparation is not valid because Grigorenko isn´t at the same level as Malkin... Not at all. Yakupov is much better prospect than Grigorenko.

yeah, especcially when one of them are top player in NHL and other one is still prospect...Yakupov is in CHL and he proved his ability to be top prospect! Grigorenko isnt in there, so he has to be very careful what he says about "coming over,not coming over, dreamed about NHL , not like KHL or visa versa and so on" , otherwise there is always some people who are saying :ghost3: IS MUCH BETTER PROSPECT...:laugh: may i say-YOU FAILED ON THIS
 
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Czechexpert

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yeah, especcially when one of them are top player in NHL and other one is still prospect...Yakupov is in CHL and he proved his ability to be top prospect! Grigorenko isnt in there, so he has to be very careful what he says about "coming over,not coming over, dreamed about NHL , not like KHL or visa versa and so on" , otherwise there is always some people who are saying :ghost3: IS MUCH BETTER PROSPECT...:laugh: may i say-YOU FAILED ON THIS

Firstly if some failed here, than you failed with guys like Barbashev, Gogolev, Stepanov and maybe some others I don´t remember.
BTW I compared Grigorenko´s NHL upside with Malkin´s upside when he was at same age as Grigorenko...
 

pouskin74*

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Firstly if some failed here, than you failed with guys like Barbashev, Gogolev, Stepanov and maybe some others I don´t remember.
BTW I compared Grigorenko´s NHL upside with Malkin´s upside when he was at same age as Grigorenko...

Stepanov ruined his career by him self but he definitely had a tools to be a good one.... did i ever sayed that Barbashev is TOP prospect of the game? TOP 30? yes i did and he had a talent to do so.... never been "high" about Gogolev, so...
16 years olds Malkin visa Grigorenko? Malkin did climbed up rapidly at age 17 and Grigorenko should work very hard to keep on this track but till to age 16? i am not going to repeat it again.
 

Czechexpert

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Come on, Barbashev and Gogolev are 18 years old and Stepanov failed due to non-hockey facts

However some guys here repeatedly spoke about Barbashev and Gogolev as good NHL prospects and when I said that IMO(based on watching them on several occasion) they are not NHL prospects I was target of scoff. And while they still could develop into NHL player due to their age, they don´t look as NHL prospect at this stage. And don´t start making KHL vr. NHL excuses.
Non-hockey aspects are part of player evaluation
 

Czechexpert

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Stepanov ruined his career by him self but he definitely had a tools to be a good one.... did i ever sayed that Barbashev is TOP prospect of the game? TOP 30? yes i did and he had a talent to do so.... never been "high" about Gogolev, so...
16 years olds Malkin visa Grigorenko? Malkin did climbed up rapidly at age 17 and Grigorenko should work very hard to keep on this track but till to age 16? i am not going to repeat it again.

Grigorenko is 17 in May. And I remember Malkin in same age(2002-2003 season) to compare both. Malkin was simply superior. Not so much skillswise as I said before but Malkin always played with passion, intensity, character which is what Grigorenko lacks. That´s the reason why Grigorenko probably won´t be the same player as Malkin. If player doesn´t play with passion and intensity as 16 year old, he will probably play same way as 25 year old.
 

Alessandro Seren Rosso

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However some guys here repeatedly spoke about Barbashev and Gogolev as good NHL prospects and when I said that IMO(based on watching them on several occasion) they are not NHL prospects I was target of scoff. And while they still could develop into NHL player due to their age, they don´t look as NHL prospect at this stage. And don´t start making KHL vr. NHL excuses.
Non-hockey aspects are part of player evaluation

I don't agree. Both players aren't worse than many of the drafted players from round 4th going down. No one expects them to be Ovechkin part deux.
EDIT: about non-hockey aspects. Also Daigle kind of failed (to a different point, of course) due to non-hockey factors. If such factors were predictable Daigle wouldn't have gone first overall.
Stepanov was an excellent prospect, he played a tournament first line with Russia-91 and he's 92.
 

Alessandro Seren Rosso

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Grigorenko is 17 in May. And I remember Malkin in same age(2002-2003 season) to compare both. Malkin was simply superior. Not so much skillswise as I said before but Malkin always played with passion, intensity, character which is what Grigorenko lacks. That´s the reason why Grigorenko probably won´t be the same player as Malkin. If player doesn´t play with passion and intensity as 16 year old, he will probably play same way as 25 year old.

Hmmm, I don't disagree to an extent, but you play Grigs down way too much.
 

Czechexpert

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Hmmm, I don't disagree to an extent, but you play Grigs down way too much.

Of course it´s my opinion but it´s based on watching him live in about 10 games throughout last two seasons.
As I said he is top 10 prospect skillwise but intensity, character, determination, heart are one of the most important aspects evaluating prospect and Grigorenko has showed very little of it so far IMO. But you know what, time will tell.
 

jimmyslim

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This is looking like the best draft year since 2008, very similar also. High end forwards with tons of defensemen. After the top 10 players there are still 6-10 players that have top 10 talent.


Finally going home after watching some great (but disappointing) hockey in Buffalo. How did we let that one slip away. Anyway, did everyone catch my favorite goalie in the U17. Even after playing 6 games straight Daniel Altshuller only gave up what looked to be deflected and screened goals in the gold medal win against USA on 21 shots. We all started to tune in the games when news of his performance was all the buzz with the NHL guys. Like I said before, this kid is the real deal. He makes it all look so easy. Patrick Roy-2nd edition. 10 goals against in almost 7 games played in 8 days. I'd like to see some veteran OHL guys handle that schedule. This kid has first round written all over him.
 

Judas Tavares

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So does this mean Russia's world jr team will be even better next year with Galyenchuk, Yakupov and Grigorenko? :O This looks to be a very European draft, which is good considering the dropoff the past few years.
 

JSilvius*

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So does this mean Russia's world jr team will be even better next year with Galyenchuk, Yakupov and Grigorenko? :O This looks to be a very European draft, which is good considering the dropoff the past few years.

Galchenyuk might play for America.
 

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