Value of: Tony DeAngelo

[Pia8988]

why not, they paid that for Stepan.

They also got Raanta who they saw as their #1. People also weren't as high on 2017 as they are about this year.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

They also got Raanta who they saw as their #1. People also weren't as high on 2017 as they are about this year.

good points, but ADA is a lot better and younger than Stepan at the time of the trade.

 

[Barnaby]

not gonna quote a slew of peeps.
A few pts IMO:

I disagree that we do not want to move Deangelo. Consider:

The expansion draft is a yr + away. While that is still time enuf to juggle things, getting that house in order now will be easier than later. Now the competing clubs don't care, they're going for a Cup run. Later, they will have to face reality as will all teams. It behooves us to better control the situation with moves now.

Let's acid test that first.
Trouba is 90+% certain to be here and protected.
He has NMC and only hometown Detroit was a possible he'd consider besides NYR when forcing 'peg's hand. But let's assume he has to be protected.

Lindgren must be protected. Thankfully Fox is exempt as is Rykov and our emerging prospects. Deadwood vets will be gone.

So assuming we move Skjei that leaves for our 3rd and final exemption Hajek, who is elc and Deangelo, who is gonna start to get paid. Doesn't look like it's a hard choice, does it?
Except that is tantamount to giving away 1st round value for nothing if we leave Hajek for Seattle.
We could trade Hajek for a future, but given we stupidly held onto Staal and instead bought out RD Shattenkirk, Hajek is behind on ice time, so his worth is underdeveloped.
By comparison, selling Deangelo high resolves that prob, esp if you are looking at picks and exempt prospects.

In theory if Deangelo did a Burns in reverse and moved from D to W, he would not have to be protected as a D, but rather as an F, which is easier given there are, if I am not mistaken, 7 protection slots available. However, he has to demonstrate [I think it is x number of minutes in y number of games] playing in that position for not only next season, but this one as well, and setting aside how impractical it is to stop everything on a dime and re-set, I don't think there are enough games for this to actually get done this year.

Now it would not be end of the world to sell low on Hajek if we had to, but why go there and take a loss if we don't have to? It would be smarter to develop Hajek and keep/sell high on him later.

The other factor is salary and cap.
We need $ for flexibility on Kreider, Dea if we keep him, and general elbow room.
Assuming Staal and Hank play out the string on their deals, we may be able to move an expiring Smith a little early for a late pick. That's an option if we need to be a little creative a bit early. But we will need to likely move, in addition to Skjei, Fs Buchnevich and Strome. This should not be a prob if GMJG is not greedy pushing for every nickel. We don't have to give guys away, but we waited too long to move like Namest for a mid pick. Once we were forced to go there, we should have tried to flip him ASAP. There were no takers. Then not only did we extend for too much, we didn't move him more quickly, which I gather was doable if we would have taken a 6th or even a 7th. This is a hard cap league, and cap flexibility is paramount. Should have gone there long ago.

As relates to Deangelo, obviously, while his next deal can go for as little as 4m only for next season IF it is the start of an escalating package, it would be better to sell high, profit, and see if we can turn that into cap savings short term going forward.

That leaves the ? of deal him now or later.
Now, for 3 clear reasons.
a) his value is not likely to go up during off season compared to now
b) his production is useful to the acquiring team, and if that is applicable to a cup run, that is not unimportant
c) we get to relieve some of the log jam, so Keane gets 9 games, Hajek can get important games in
d) while it is a very, very small possible concern, trading Deangelo now eliminates mathematical possibility of injury which could impact value during off season, esp if injury is kind that is 'show me' he's recovered and in good form.

So now that the argument is made we should move him, the ? remains what is the best return...………[?]

Why don’t we wait to see Hajek become an NHL regular before we move ADA to hang onto him. He may not even be someone Seattle is interested in by the expansion draft.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Why don’t we wait to see Hajek become an NHL regular before we move ADA to hang onto him. He may not even be someone Seattle is interested in by the expansion draft.

Hajek should get traded to be honest because Rykov is much better. And he and ADA play different sides.

 

[Barnaby]

Hajek should get traded to be honest because Rykov is much better. And he and ADA play different sides.

I don’t think Hajek has much value today. I’d certainly listen though. No one has seen Rykov in an NHL game yet so juries out on him to for the moment. Injury held him back...

 

[bernmeister]

Red Wings want talent upgrade. Unless I missed something, they have room as to who they protect for exp draft. Therefore, IF Trouba were to consent to go home could a big deal be possible? [Not clear, where is his woman (fiancée? wife?) in terms of study/work; will she keep him here in NYC or can they relocate to DET?]

As relates to this thread, Deangelo could be added to Trouba with + . The return to NY would be Hronek and Seider +, Of course, you need to approach cap balance and Wings would want something to offset loss of elc years. So expiring Green goes to NYR, along with Athanasiou + Helm. Rangers send over Hajek [LD they'll want] + Buchnevich + Strome [rfa].

So final is

Deangelo + Trouba + Hajek + Buchnevich + Strome
rough ballpark a bit over 15m cap
for
Hronek + Seider + Green + Athanasiou + Helm
rough ballpark a bit over 12m cap

that's 3m but I think it's close enuf Wings can juggle it
[NY could take on more enlarging the deal, but 5 apiece is good cuttoff for a big deal, mindful of course, this could be restructured into 2 or 3 smaller deals.]

The deal has risk/reward for both sides.
Trouba is a physical presence.
Seider is big, but is he more Hedman skater type, or is he also a crease clearer?
Deangelo is a known commodity, but Hronek strikes me as another Fox.
There is some gamble here but if Keane,, Miller and others are tough as advertised, this works long term.

NY can afford to lose on the other assets to recover elc years on primary assets returned, so they win, in theory. If possible move expiring Green for a 7th, a bit more if we eat half. Now we are ahead of the curve for the exp draft.
Deal Skjei/+ to Canes for a 2020 1st/+ and we are mostly done.

Wings want to add talent to roster, so they also win.

win-win
...on paper...​

 

[Shootertooter]

not gonna quote a slew of peeps.
A few pts IMO:

I disagree that we do not want to move Deangelo. Consider:

The expansion draft is a yr + away. While that is still time enuf to juggle things, getting that house in order now will be easier than later. Now the competing clubs don't care, they're going for a Cup run. Later, they will have to face reality as will all teams. It behooves us to better control the situation with moves now.

Let's acid test that first.
Trouba is 90+% certain to be here and protected.
He has NMC and only hometown Detroit was a possible he'd consider besides NYR when forcing 'peg's hand. But let's assume he has to be protected.

Lindgren must be protected. Thankfully Fox is exempt as is Rykov and our emerging prospects. Deadwood vets will be gone.

So assuming we move Skjei that leaves for our 3rd and final exemption Hajek, who is elc and Deangelo, who is gonna start to get paid. Doesn't look like it's a hard choice, does it?
Except that is tantamount to giving away 1st round value for nothing if we leave Hajek for Seattle.
We could trade Hajek for a future, but given we stupidly held onto Staal and instead bought out RD Shattenkirk, Hajek is behind on ice time, so his worth is underdeveloped.
By comparison, selling Deangelo high resolves that prob, esp if you are looking at picks and exempt prospects.

In theory if Deangelo did a Burns in reverse and moved from D to W, he would not have to be protected as a D, but rather as an F, which is easier given there are, if I am not mistaken, 7 protection slots available. However, he has to demonstrate [I think it is x number of minutes in y number of games] playing in that position for not only next season, but this one as well, and setting aside how impractical it is to stop everything on a dime and re-set, I don't think there are enough games for this to actually get done this year.

Now it would not be end of the world to sell low on Hajek if we had to, but why go there and take a loss if we don't have to? It would be smarter to develop Hajek and keep/sell high on him later.

The other factor is salary and cap.
We need $ for flexibility on Kreider, Dea if we keep him, and general elbow room.
Assuming Staal and Hank play out the string on their deals, we may be able to move an expiring Smith a little early for a late pick. That's an option if we need to be a little creative a bit early. But we will need to likely move, in addition to Skjei, Fs Buchnevich and Strome. This should not be a prob if GMJG is not greedy pushing for every nickel. We don't have to give guys away, but we waited too long to move like Namest for a mid pick. Once we were forced to go there, we should have tried to flip him ASAP. There were no takers. Then not only did we extend for too much, we didn't move him more quickly, which I gather was doable if we would have taken a 6th or even a 7th. This is a hard cap league, and cap flexibility is paramount. Should have gone there long ago.

As relates to Deangelo, obviously, while his next deal can go for as little as 4m only for next season IF it is the start of an escalating package, it would be better to sell high, profit, and see if we can turn that into cap savings short term going forward.

That leaves the ? of deal him now or later.
Now, for 3 clear reasons.
a) his value is not likely to go up during off season compared to now
b) his production is useful to the acquiring team, and if that is applicable to a cup run, that is not unimportant
c) we get to relieve some of the log jam, so Keane gets 9 games, Hajek can get important games in
d) while it is a very, very small possible concern, trading Deangelo now eliminates mathematical possibility of injury which could impact value during off season, esp if injury is kind that is 'show me' he's recovered and in good form.

So now that the argument is made we should move him, the ? remains what is the best return...………[?]

Trade Kreider not ADA......and we are not moving ADA to wing. He is way more valuable to us as a defender.

 

[bernmeister]

Why don’t we wait to see Hajek become an NHL regular before we move ADA to hang onto him. He may not even be someone Seattle is interested in by the expansion draft.

Hajek should get traded to be honest because Rykov is much better. And he and ADA play different sides.

I don’t think Hajek has much value today. I’d certainly listen though. No one has seen Rykov in an NHL game yet so juries out on him to for the moment. Injury held him back...

While it should not be the dominant factor dictating our moves, logically, it makes more sense to play Hajek and see what he is/looks like.

Of course to do that Skjei for starters should go, then see what Dea fetches

 

[aufheben]

Again, 60 pts is a nice production number and we have that in gustafsson, but the amount of dangerous chances he gives up when he's on his own half of the ice outweighs 60 pts of production and with only six defensemen that play on a given night you can't afford to make someone an offensive zone or PP specialist and pay him 60 pts dman cap money

If you're referring to a stat that shows DeAngelo is actually a net negative player, I would like to see it.

 

[crowi]

NYR will sign him for cheap-ish is what I think. He seems to love it there.

 

[Barnaby]

While it should not be the dominant factor dictating our moves, logically, it makes more sense to play Hajek and see what he is/looks like.

Of course to do that Skjei for starters should go, then see what Dea fetches

They did play Hajek and he lost his spot on a rather weak LD core...

 

[crowi]

Bern you won't get Seider from the Wings. This Yzerman you're trading with, not Holland.

I think he is going to be one of the top D-men in the league in a few years.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

not gonna quote a slew of peeps.
A few pts IMO:

I disagree that we do not want to move Deangelo. Consider:

The expansion draft is a yr + away. While that is still time enuf to juggle things, getting that house in order now will be easier than later. Now the competing clubs don't care, they're going for a Cup run. Later, they will have to face reality as will all teams. It behooves us to better control the situation with moves now.

Let's acid test that first.
Trouba is 90+% certain to be here and protected.
He has NMC and only hometown Detroit was a possible he'd consider besides NYR when forcing 'peg's hand. But let's assume he has to be protected.

Lindgren must be protected. Thankfully Fox is exempt as is Rykov and our emerging prospects. Deadwood vets will be gone.

So assuming we move Skjei that leaves for our 3rd and final exemption Hajek, who is elc and Deangelo, who is gonna start to get paid. Doesn't look like it's a hard choice, does it?
Except that is tantamount to giving away 1st round value for nothing if we leave Hajek for Seattle.
We could trade Hajek for a future, but given we stupidly held onto Staal and instead bought out RD Shattenkirk, Hajek is behind on ice time, so his worth is underdeveloped.
By comparison, selling Deangelo high resolves that prob, esp if you are looking at picks and exempt prospects.

In theory if Deangelo did a Burns in reverse and moved from D to W, he would not have to be protected as a D, but rather as an F, which is easier given there are, if I am not mistaken, 7 protection slots available. However, he has to demonstrate [I think it is x number of minutes in y number of games] playing in that position for not only next season, but this one as well, and setting aside how impractical it is to stop everything on a dime and re-set, I don't think there are enough games for this to actually get done this year.

Now it would not be end of the world to sell low on Hajek if we had to, but why go there and take a loss if we don't have to? It would be smarter to develop Hajek and keep/sell high on him later.

The other factor is salary and cap.
We need $ for flexibility on Kreider, Dea if we keep him, and general elbow room.
Assuming Staal and Hank play out the string on their deals, we may be able to move an expiring Smith a little early for a late pick. That's an option if we need to be a little creative a bit early. But we will need to likely move, in addition to Skjei, Fs Buchnevich and Strome. This should not be a prob if GMJG is not greedy pushing for every nickel. We don't have to give guys away, but we waited too long to move like Namest for a mid pick. Once we were forced to go there, we should have tried to flip him ASAP. There were no takers. Then not only did we extend for too much, we didn't move him more quickly, which I gather was doable if we would have taken a 6th or even a 7th. This is a hard cap league, and cap flexibility is paramount. Should have gone there long ago.

As relates to Deangelo, obviously, while his next deal can go for as little as 4m only for next season IF it is the start of an escalating package, it would be better to sell high, profit, and see if we can turn that into cap savings short term going forward.

That leaves the ? of deal him now or later.
Now, for 3 clear reasons.
a) his value is not likely to go up during off season compared to now
b) his production is useful to the acquiring team, and if that is applicable to a cup run, that is not unimportant
c) we get to relieve some of the log jam, so Keane gets 9 games, Hajek can get important games in
d) while it is a very, very small possible concern, trading Deangelo now eliminates mathematical possibility of injury which could impact value during off season, esp if injury is kind that is 'show me' he's recovered and in good form.

So now that the argument is made we should move him, the ? remains what is the best return...………[?]

You worry WAY too much about the expansion draft. The Rangers can simply trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick to have Seattle take the player they ask them to.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

They did play Hajek and he lost his spot on a rather weak LD core...

yes, and he got outplayed by Lindgren who was supposed to be lesser caliber prospect.

 

[AirGut]

All this Rangers speculation makes my head spin sometimes, we seem to be at a point where there are multiple routes to take. What scares me the most is making a wrong move and, like a tower of cards, everything else falling.

 

[5cotland]

Why don’t we wait to see Hajek become an NHL regular before we move ADA to hang onto him. He may not even be someone Seattle is interested in by the expansion draft.

Hajek still has to play 58 NHL games by the end of next season to be eligible for expansion draft.

Contracted players needs to have played 70 NHL games in the 2 seasons before or 40 games in 1 season before to be eligible for expansion draft. If they dont then they do not need to be protected as Seattle cant select them.

I dont see Hajek playing 40 games next season ahead of Rykov or Lindgren. He will be an NHLr and good for us but just not ready yet.

 

[5cotland]

You worry WAY too much about the expansion draft. The Rangers can simply trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick to have Seattle take the player they ask them to.

We are in a great position for the expansion as we dont have any major players at risk.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Again, 60 pts is a nice production number and we have that in gustafsson, but the amount of dangerous chances he gives up when he's on his own half of the ice outweighs 60 pts of production and with only six defensemen that play on a given night you can't afford to make someone an offensive zone or PP specialist and pay him 60 pts dman cap money

Interesting.

Except TDA's xGA would be the 2nd best on CHI and his HDCA and HDCF% are better than Gustafsson.

So yeah, TDA has 43 pts while EG has 25 and he's doing it without being the trainwreck defensively that EG is.

 

[mm11]

Interesting.

Except TDA's xGA would be the 2nd best on CHI and his HDCA and HDCF% are better than Gustafsson.

So yeah, TDA has 43 pts while EG has 25 and he's doing it without being the trainwreck defensively that EG is.

No doubt TDA is having a breakout season. He seems to run a top 10 PP very well. Generating 14 PP points already which does pad the stats. What's even better to see his is plus 12 at this time on an ok at best defensive team. The blueshirts have an interesting decision on this guy. TDA gambled on his ability this summer and played chicken with the ranger brass and will be looking for his payday soon enough.

 

[5cotland]

No doubt TDA is having a breakout season. He seems to run a top 10 PP very well. Generating 14 PP points already which does pad the stats. What's even better to see his is plus 12 at this time on an ok at best defensive team. The blueshirts have an interesting decision on this guy. TDA gambled on his ability this summer and played chicken with the ranger brass and will be looking for his payday soon enough.

Funny you mention the PP points as padding his stats as ADA points are actually the highest in EVP to PPP ratio among the top 19 defensive point scorers in the league.

Which means that ADA power play points only contribute 31.8% of his points. No other dman in the top 19 point scorers has a better ratio. Not even Hedman, Carlson, Hughes etc.

 

[5cotland]

I don’t think Hajek has much value today. I’d certainly listen though. No one has seen Rykov in an NHL game yet so juries out on him to for the moment. Injury held him back...

Why does he not have much value? Would you say he as as much value as Jake Bean, Olli Juolevi, Logan Stanley etc?

All these players were drafted above him and havent even cracked the NHL yet. Hajek has shown he can handle it and only lost his spot because he got injured and Lindgren has been solid.

 

[mm11]

Funny you mention the PP points as padding his stats as ADA points are actually the highest in ES to PP points ratio among the top 19 defensive point scorers in the league.

Which means that ADA power play points only contribute 31.8% of his points. No other dman in the top 19 point scorers has a better ratio. Not even Hedman, Carlson, Hughes etc.

No doubt the guy has earned his payday. Good to see someone gamble on their ability and come out on top. The few times I have looked his TOI was not as high most of the time vrs the other 5 starting dman. Not sure if this was an outlier when I checked but does Quinn put him out there protecting leads? Have not watched many ranger games this year unfortunately

 

[5cotland]

No doubt the guy has earned his payday. Good to see someone gamble on their ability and come out on top. The few times I have looked his TOI was not as high most of the time vrs the other 5 starting dman. Not sure if this was an outlier when I checked but does Quinn put him out there protecting leads? Have not watched many ranger games this year unfortunately

It really varies. Quinn is the kinda coach that players minutes are affected by their performances on the day regardless of how consistent they have been playing in games before.

Last few games ADA has been playing around 20mins a night but last week he was playing around 17/18 mins a night.

 

[Shootertooter]

no message

 

[pan43]

Hajek still has to play 58 NHL games by the end of next season to be eligible for expansion draft.

Contracted players needs to have played 70 NHL games in the 2 seasons before or 40 games in 1 season before to be eligible for expansion draft. If they dont then they do not need to be protected as Seattle cant select them.

I dont see Hajek playing 40 games next season ahead of Rykov or Lindgren. He will be an NHLr and good for us but just not ready yet.

He is not exempt from the expansion draft. The 70/40 numbers are for players that must be exposed. As in each team has to have a certain number of players on the team who meet the exposure requirements.
That has nothing to do with players that are exempt.

He was an age 20+ player playing in the AHL last year. That means that season counted as an accrued year of professional hockey.
Last year mainly in the AHL and this year split between leagues and next year is 3 years of professional accrued seasons. He will require protection. Players 19 and younger playing in the AHL do not accrue a year of professional experience according to the CBA. He was a 20 year old when his season in the AHL started last year.