Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part V

[Irishguy42]

but the reason some people do is way more because of Fox than Nils

Hmmmmmmmm...

....bit on the nose here...

 

[True Blue]

I don’t want to trade him personally but the reason some people do is way more because of Fox than Nils, and also due to the cap and the team having big holes in other positions while sitting on 3 very good players at his position.

I do not see the cap getting blown out by resigning him. And while Fox is and will be very good in his own right, he is not the offensive ice tilter that DeAngelo is.

The reality is that every team would want him. But the amount of teams that make for good trading partners is limited.

 

[Thirty One]

Not gonna lie, I would feel more comfortable if he had less time to troll on Twitter these days.

 

[will1066]

Does Adam and Ryan qualify as the Fox & the Hound? Asking for a friend.

 

[haveandare]

I do not see the cap getting blown out by resigning him. And while Fox is and will be very good in his own right, he is not the offensive ice tilter that DeAngelo is.

The reality is that every team would want him. But the amount of teams that make for good trading partners is limited.

I don’t disagree. Just saying the argument that Nils is the impetus to move Tony isn’t very accurate. If we had Nils and no Fox I doubt anyone would even think of wanting to move TDA, while if we had Fox and no Nils, plenty would still be wary of having 3 very good players, two of whom will be highly paid very soon, at the same position when there are positions we have a lot worse depth at.

Personally I think Tony is pretty special and having these 3 works well. I’d still like to see one tried, but not forced, at LD but I wouldn’t want to trade Tony unless the return was an equal level player at LD or C.

 

[True Blue]

I don’t disagree. Just saying the argument that Nils is the impetus to move Tony isn’t very accurate. If we had Nils and no Fox I doubt anyone would even think of wanting to move TDA, while if we had Fox and no Nils, plenty would still be wary of having 3 very good players, two of whom will be highly paid very soon, at the same position when there are positions we have a lot worse depth at.

Personally I think Tony is pretty special and having these 3 works well. I’d still like to see one tried, but not forced, at LD but I wouldn’t want to trade Tony unless the return was an equal level player at LD or C.

I am sure that you have seen as many times as I have something that usually has "with Lundqvist coming over" in it. Maybe not from you, but more than enough.

A for if something HAS to be done, I think the trading partners are not that many. Would I take a Connor? Sure, but he is a LW and that looks like it is under control. If Strome continues to do his job, I think it reduces the need for another center. That leaves RW and LD. Want to flip a Theodore or Werenski? Sure. Sign me up. But who would be the RW that you would bring in a deal? It would take a top line RW for me to want to deal DeAngelo for such a player. So who is out there that is similarly aged? Not many.

 

[Inferno]

Some of the biggest assholes in real life are also the best and most loyal friends. You just gotta get past the assholitude.

 

[haveandare]

I am sure that you have seen as many times as I have something that usually has "with Lundqvist coming over" in it. Maybe not from you, but more than enough.

A for if something HAS to be done, I think the trading partners are not that many. Would I take a Connor? Sure, but he is a LW and that looks like it is under control. If Strome continues to do his job, I think it reduces the need for another center. That leaves RW and LD. Want to flip a Theodore or Werenski? Sure. Sign me up. But who would be the RW that you would bring in a deal? It would take a top line RW for me to want to deal DeAngelo for such a player. So who is out there that is similarly aged? Not many.

I always took it as "with Lundqvist coming over, in addition to what we already have..." but I could be giving more benefit of the doubt than is reasonable.

I'd take an LD or a C. Strome is not a long term option imo and having Chytil or whatever C is acquired player RW is probably pretty feasible.

 

[True Blue]

I always took it as "with Lundqvist coming over, in addition to what we already have..." but I could be giving more benefit of the doubt than is reasonable.

I'd take an LD or a C. Strome is not a long term option imo and having Chytil or whatever C is acquired player RW is probably pretty feasible.

I always took it as another iron in the fire as to why trading him should be examined.

Not sure how long or short an option Strome is, but if he performs the way that he does with an elite player, they why search for an elite level center? I mean he was trending towards 70 points. Just who is it that you are importing that is that much better?

Chytil has yet to show that he is ready to assume the 2C role.

I have asked this question before, and others either ran away from it or, like a very few, gave a response. If your trading universe is C or RW, what does the return profile look like if you are trading DeAngelo one for one?

 

[EdJovanovski]

We have Kakko-Buchnevich-Kravtsov-Gauthier-Fast at RW, so we should trade the 4th leading scoring dmen who's FIVE years younger than any player ahead of him; for a RW?

 

[nyr2k2]

We have Kakko-Buchnevich-Kravtsov-Gauthier-Fast at RW, so we should trade the 4th leading scoring dmen who's FIVE years younger than any player ahead of him; for a RW?

I'm not saying we should, BUT:

Kakko is still not guarantee to be any kind of star, his performance this year was not good
Buchnevich is Buchnevich, decent second line player who seems like he could be more, if we even keep him around
Kravtsov comes with plenty of question marks--he could end up very good or could bust entirely
Fast may be gone by next year
Gauthier is, what, exactly?

We have a bunch of dudes who play RW, but outside of Buchnevich and UFA-to-be Fast, none of them have actually produced at even a decent level and may not ever produce at that level. RW is legitimately an unknown for us moving forward.

Of course, if you move him, you have to acquire someone who is established, whether it's RW or C.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I'm not saying we should, BUT:

Kakko is still not guarantee to be any kind of star, his performance this year was not good
Buchnevich is Buchnevich, decent second line player who seems like he could be more, if we even keep him around
Kravtsov comes with plenty of question marks--he could end up very good or could bust entirely
Fast may be gone by next year
Gauthier is, what, exactly?

We have a bunch of dudes who play RW, but outside of Buchnevich and UFA-to-be Fast, none of them have actually produced at even a decent level and may not ever produce at that level. RW is legitimately an unknown for us moving forward.

Of course, if you move him, you have to acquire someone who is established, whether it's RW or C.

Boy do people sour on prospects quickly, we have a 19 & 20 year old RW who one year ago were considered the top prospect for the NHL draft and the other was the top NHL affiliated prospect. I think Buchnevich is better than a "decent" second line player, and something not many people talk about is just how clutch he is. Some players have that clutch gene and for some reason just thrive under pressure in the dying seconds and he's one of them.


He's also absolutely hilarious, checking out the ice girls when he was walking out of the tunnel, mocking Elvis's celly after scoring on him, "NUMBAH 12", cross checking Marchand, wearing hats after Mikas goal, his ridiculous instagram stories. Got to keep Buch for the memes alone. And he fits in so well with Kreids, Mika, Breadman, Shesty. We have such a tight knit group which I think is very important when building a championship team.
And you can throw Chytil into that mix whether he's playing RW or C. Plus we have Strome for now too, who has great chemistry with Panarin, is great friends with Tony & the guys too. I don't see the need to move the 4th leading scorer among dmen who is significantly younger than anyone ahead of him for someone at a position we already have.

 

[nyr2k2]

Boy do people sour on prospects quickly, we have a 19 & 20 year old RW who one year ago were considered the top prospect for the NHL draft and the other was the top NHL affiliated prospect. I think Buchnevich is better than a "decent" second line player, and something not many people talk about is just how clutch he is. Some players have that clutch gene and for some reason just thrive under pressure in the dying seconds and he's one of them.


He's also absolutely hilarious, checking out the ice girls when he was walking out of the tunnel, mocking Elvis's celly after scoring on him, "NUMBAH 12", cross checking Marchand, wearing hats after Mikas goal, his ridiculous instagram stories. Got to keep Buch for the memes alone. And he fits in so well with Kreids, Mika, Breadman, Shesty. We have such a tight knit group which I think is very important when building a championship team.
And you can throw Chytil into that mix whether he's playing RW or C. Plus we have Strome for now too, who has great chemistry with Panarin, is great friends with Tony & the guys too. I don't see the need to move the 4th leading scorer among dmen who is significantly younger than anyone ahead of him for someone at a position we already have.

I'm not sour on Kakko or Kravtsov. I'm just stating what I see as the reality with them--particularly with the latter, they may not become what we hoped they become. Fast may walk. Buchnevich is 25 and looks like a 50 point player no matter who you stick him with, with is good but not great.

RW is a position we "have" if things work out. It's not a given by any means.

 

[n8]

I'm not saying we should, BUT:

Kakko is still not guarantee to be any kind of star, his performance this year was not good
Buchnevich is Buchnevich, decent second line player who seems like he could be more, if we even keep him around
Kravtsov comes with plenty of question marks--he could end up very good or could bust entirely
Fast may be gone by next year
Gauthier is, what, exactly?

We have a bunch of dudes who play RW, but outside of Buchnevich and UFA-to-be Fast, none of them have actually produced at even a decent level and may not ever produce at that level. RW is legitimately an unknown for us moving forward.

Of course, if you move him, you have to acquire someone who is established, whether it's RW or C.

It's way too early to know what we have in Kakko or Kravtsov. Kakko could be Barkov levels. +/- aside, their rookie years aren't too dissimilar from the statistical POV. We will probably need to wait 2 years to have a better idea of what we have there. Kravstov, who knows?! If we were to acquire another RW, it has to be done in a smart asset management way because if we force ourselves to trade one down the line for a lower value, not great. If we put ourselves in a position to trade from a position of power, then we can potentially get a better value out of the exchange. A lot of IFs but just saying, can't totally discount the idea.

 

[n8]

I'm not saying we should, BUT:

Kakko is still not guarantee to be any kind of star, his performance this year was not good
Buchnevich is Buchnevich, decent second line player who seems like he could be more, if we even keep him around
Kravtsov comes with plenty of question marks--he could end up very good or could bust entirely
Fast may be gone by next year
Gauthier is, what, exactly?

We have a bunch of dudes who play RW, but outside of Buchnevich and UFA-to-be Fast, none of them have actually produced at even a decent level and may not ever produce at that level. RW is legitimately an unknown for us moving forward.

Of course, if you move him, you have to acquire someone who is established, whether it's RW or C.

It's way too early to know what we have in Kakko or Kravtsov. Kakko could be Barkov levels. +/- aside, their rookie years aren't too dissimilar from the statistical POV. We will probably need to wait 2 years to have a better idea of what we have there. Kravstov, who knows?! If we were to acquire another RW, it has to be done in a smart asset management way because if we force ourselves to trade one down the line for a lower value, not great. If we put ourselves in a position to trade from a position of power, then we can potentially get a better value out of the exchange. A lot of IFs but just saying, can't totally discount the idea.

 

[Rempe73]

Werenski
Provorov
Hintz
Konecny
Barzal
Connor
Tkachuk
Theodore
Boeser
Heiskanen

That's the type of player you target in a 1-for-1 trade for DeAngelo. I am not saying these will definitely be available, but a 1-for-1 trade is one that has to "hurt" for both teams, while addressing a need

I’d take TDA over everyone there besides Barzal, Heiskanen, and possible Connor. Werenski, Provorov, and a few others I would think about but ultimately say no. And that’s right now. Maybe next year he takes it up another level. His upside is as good as most of the guys listed, if you ask me.

 

[Rempe73]

Delete

 

[Rempe73]

Delete. Omg I hate hfboards. If I post something, let me know. Pos site on mobile.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Delete. Omg I hate hfboards. If I post something, let me know. Pos site on mobile.

I mean, it's right there at the top of the page haha

 

[Rempe73]

I mean, it's right there at the top of the page haha

View attachment 341300

Oops. I am a moron.

 

[nyr2k2]

It's way too early to know what we have in Kakko or Kravtsov. Kakko could be Barkov levels. +/- aside, their rookie years aren't too dissimilar from the statistical POV. We will probably need to wait 2 years to have a better idea of what we have there. Kravstov, who knows?! If we were to acquire another RW, it has to be done in a smart asset management way because if we force ourselves to trade one down the line for a lower value, not great. If we put ourselves in a position to trade from a position of power, then we can potentially get a better value out of the exchange. A lot of IFs but just saying, can't totally discount the idea.

I'm not arguing we SHOULD acquire a RW. I'm just saying--there's any number of scenarios even with Kakko or Kravtsov booming where RW isn't a huge strength. They could trade Buchnevich. Who knows. I don't think RW should be the target. But as long as the team has a plan in what they do, I'm willing to entertain it.

 

[haveandare]

I always took it as another iron in the fire as to why trading him should be examined.

Not sure how long or short an option Strome is, but if he performs the way that he does with an elite player, they why search for an elite level center? I mean he was trending towards 70 points. Just who is it that you are importing that is that much better?

Chytil has yet to show that he is ready to assume the 2C role.

I have asked this question before, and others either ran away from it or, like a very few, gave a response. If your trading universe is C or RW, what does the return profile look like if you are trading DeAngelo one for one?

Fair enough.

Assuming Strome is a 70 point player for the long-term, he's fine for now. I'm not sure that's a safe assumption personally. Even assuming it is, this will be his last RFA deal. IMO it's a no brainier to bite the UFA contract bullet for Mika when the time comes, but doing it for Strome as well is going to be very difficult with the rest of the roster. IMO upgrading the center position wouldn't be about getting necessarily a much better center than Strome as much as getting a center with potential to still develop into a better player than Strome is and years of cap flexibility. Having that kind of center plus Chytil gives a lot of options up and down the lineup.

My universe for moving Tony is LD or C, I don't think moving him for a RW makes much sense personally. I don't want to move him much at all and I'd require a hefty return: C wise I'd look for guys like Dach or Necas. LD, guys like Werenski or Heiskanen as a long-shot.

 

[Machinehead]

The next captain of this team is Iranian, so there's that.

It's becoming harder to just ignore these things.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Iran has got one of the most easily hated regimes in the world, but that shouldn't be extended to its people.

ADA is free to say and think whatever he wants, but I wish he would use more tact when he starts crossing over into political and ideological territory.

 

[LokiDog]

The next captain of this team is Iranian, so there's that.

It's becoming harder to just ignore these things.

It’s not, really. Raised in Sweden, dad’s Iranian, mom’s Finnish and DeAngelo’s stance on foreign affairs policy doesn’t make him xenophobic or indicate in the remotely slightest margin that there would be any kind of strife between him and Mika. People are entitled to their own political, sociological, theological, etc. opinions whether those opinions are enlightened or otherwise.