Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo (MOD WARNINGS: Post #12/#900)

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Sometimes I wonder if DeAngelo’s style and ability of passing is causing people to view him more positively than he deserves

I like his play with the puck. I think he’s alright when battling for the puck. I’m negative on his ability without the puck in the open.

I wonder if people view someone positively for things they do well...

HF offseason has hit its breaking point

 

[Tawnos]

I wonder if people view someone positively for things they do well...

HF offseason has hit its breaking point

You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

ok what happens if he doesn't look bad in camp, but most of our other dmen prospects play better than him?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don't understand why Gorton wanted ADA in that trade, he should have demanded a better prospect.

And maybe he did. But it's not as easy as just asking for a better prospect and getting it. In the end, the real prize in that trade was the 7th overall pick which they used to pick a player who has the potential to be a top-6 player for a decade.

 

[NYR713]

ok what happens if he doesn't look bad in camp, but most of our other dmen prospects play better than him?

Great trade chip... young RHD that looks good enough (or doesn't look bad)for an NHL spot. Although if he can really find his way in the pro game, he'll have the 3rd pairing RD spot with one of the dman prospects, being that the most probable young guys are all LD.

 

[will1066]

RHDs are difficult to come by. That inherently puts TDA in a good position to win a full-time job.

 

[kovazub94]

ok what happens if he doesn't look bad in camp, but most of our other dmen prospects play better than him?

Who are these "other dmen prospects"? Realistically, there aren't enough RD (true) prospect bodies in NY or Hartford to begin with to overtake ADA if he performs well.

 

[Tawnos]

Who are these "other dmen prospects"? Realistically, there aren't enough RD (true) prospect bodies in NY or Hartford to begin with to overtake ADA if he performs well.

So the pro depth chart on the right side is:

Shattenkirk
Smith
DeAngelo
Pionk
Kampfer
Bigras
Day

Unless Pedrie or Crawley play RD, which I can't recall at the moment.

It isn't that hard to imagine a scenario where DeAngelo doesn't make the opening night roster... DeAngelo might perform well and still get outperformed by Smith and Pionk. Who knows what kind of off-season Bigras had too. That's his other main competition. Let's not forget that Bigras is only 8 months older than DeAngelo. Not counting him out yet. I can't see Day being NHL ready yet.

That being said, if he's the 4th best RD in camp, I fully expect that he will be on the roster and see some time. I would also think that a tie between DeAngelo and Bigras goes to DeAngelo. Injuries are going to happen and there's really no point in risking waivers with him, whereas I think there's no chance someone else claims Bigras.

 

[kovazub94]

So the pro depth chart on the right side is:

Shattenkirk
Smith
DeAngelo
Pionk
Kampfer
Bigras
Day

Unless Pedrie or Crawley play RD, which I can't recall at the moment.

It isn't that hard to imagine a scenario where DeAngelo doesn't make the opening night roster... DeAngelo might perform well and still get outperformed by Smith and Pionk. Who knows what kind of off-season Bigras had too. That's his other main competition. Let's not forget that Bigras is only 8 months older than DeAngelo. Not counting him out yet. I can't see Day being NHL ready yet.

That being said, if he's the 4th best RD in camp, I fully expect that he will be on the roster and see some time. I would also think that a tie between DeAngelo and Bigras goes to DeAngelo. Injuries are going to happen and there's really no point in risking waivers with him, whereas I think there's no chance someone else claims Bigras.

Pretty sure both Pedrie and Crawley are RD but it would be a big surprise if either challenges ADA for a roster spot. Bigras is a wild card given that he was highly thought of at some point with the Avs, but now it's 50/50 proposition at best.

Otherwise, if ADA plays well (which was one of the conditions in the post I was responding to) I just do not see Smith on the right side.

 

[nyr2k2]

So the pro depth chart on the right side is:

Shattenkirk
Smith
DeAngelo
Pionk
Kampfer
Bigras
Day

I would think the organization has Pionk ahead of ADA currently and may have him ahead of Smith as well, even assuming Smith gets back to something resembling what he used to be.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

I would think the organization has Pionk ahead of ADA currently and may have him ahead of Smith as well, even assuming Smith gets back to something resembling what he used to be.

I think the organization is going blank slate with all those guys. It’s a new coach and team sports are more about system than anything.

 

[Tawnos]

Pretty sure both Pedrie and Crawley are RD but it would be a big surprise if either challenges ADA for a roster spot. Bigras is a wild card given that he was highly thought of at some point with the Avs, but now it's 50/50 proposition at best.

Otherwise, if ADA plays well (which was one of the conditions in the post I was responding to) I just do not see Smith on the right side.

I don't see Smith making this team on the left. Skjei and Staal aren't going anywhere and I think between them plus Claesson, Gilmour, Hajek, and Lindgren, we will have 4 LD not named Smith. Throw O'Gara in there if you'd like, although I think he's AHL bound in any scenario.

I would think the organization has Pionk ahead of ADA currently and may have him ahead of Smith as well, even assuming Smith gets back to something resembling what he used to be.

I put DeAngelo ahead of Pionk, but I really think they're on equal footing at the moment.

 

[Off Sides]

Smith is a lefty shot, he played LD with Green in Detroit, some of his best play came from that time period, the time period that makes his overall past Detroit stats look better than they probably should.

He played RD before and after that Green pairing as Detroit, over the time period Smith was there, other than Green had only Zidlicky, Nick Jensen in the early years and Sproul later on who were natural right handed D.

 

[TheTakedown]

Skjei
Staal
Smith

Is fine for the left side. Let Staal prove his sucks ass, Smith can overtake him, and then later in the year when Staal inevitably gets hurt, some lefty D prospects can jump in and get a few cups of coffee.

Shattenkirk
Pionk
DeAngelo

Is fine for the right side. Let these guys battle it out.

The only wild cards are Hajek and Lindgren, but we don't know what these guys are for this team yet.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think the organization is going blank slate with all those guys. It’s a new coach and team sports are more about system than anything.

Possibly. It's up to the coach to utilize his players, but the front office has a say for sure. The fact that Pionk played 6 minutes more each night, and down the stretch even more, than ADA did while also being a true rookie, I don't think that was all on AV. The front office obviously knew they'd be firing AV, so I don't believe they gave him free reign to use these kids however he wanted. I believe they gave him suggestions on how they'd like to see certain guys be used.

Then, also, Gorton brings Pionk along with him to the World Championships, where he played really well in a limited role. I think the front office is high on Pionk. Again, of course Quinn will get to make decisions and have input on everything, but unless Pionk is noticeably outplayed by ADA, I just have a hard time envisioning a scenario where the latter gets more minutes than the former.

Also, with the whole "blank slate" thing, that's only true to an extent. You can go into camp and say say, "Everyone is on equal ground and has an equal chance." But you can't just completely forget past performances. AV and his system really hurt some of our guys, particularly the defenseman, but it would be a failing of management to just put aside everything that happened over the past few years.

 

[nyr2k2]

I put DeAngelo ahead of Pionk, but I really think they're on equal footing at the moment.

The only way I can see them truly being on equal footing is because (I believe) ADA is no longer waiver-exempt. I think the organization is higher on Pionk, though camp and Quinn's preferences may change things.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Possibly. It's up to the coach to utilize his players, but the front office has a say for sure. The fact that Pionk played 6 minutes more each night, and down the stretch even more, than ADA did while also being a true rookie, I don't think that was all on AV. The front office obviously knew they'd be firing AV, so I don't believe they gave him free reign to use these kids however he wanted. I believe they gave him suggestions on how they'd like to see certain guys be used.

Then, also, Gorton brings Pionk along with him to the World Championships, where he played really well in a limited role. I think the front office is high on Pionk. Again, of course Quinn will get to make decisions and have input on everything, but unless Pionk is noticeably outplayed by ADA, I just have a hard time envisioning a scenario where the latter gets more minutes than the former.

Also, with the whole "blank slate" thing, that's only true to an extent. You can go into camp and say say, "Everyone is on equal ground and has an equal chance." But you can't just completely forget past performances. AV and his system really hurt some of our guys, particularly the defenseman, but it would be a failing of management to just put aside everything that happened over the past few years.

I think they’ll wipe last year from their memory. Skjei finished the year looking like a garbage can on skates. Pionk looked like a younger version of girardi. ADA looked like sophomore slump MDZ. And Smith wasn’t an nhl player

 

[Tawnos]

Skjei
Staal
Smith

Is fine for the left side. Let Staal prove his sucks ass, Smith can overtake him, and then later in the year when Staal inevitably gets hurt, some lefty D prospects can jump in and get a few cups of coffee.

Shattenkirk
Pionk
DeAngelo

Is fine for the right side. Let these guys battle it out.

The only wild cards are Hajek and Lindgren, but we don't know what these guys are for this team yet.

I see I'm not the only one who has to remind himself of the existence of John Gilmour. Also, our one UFA signing.

 

[Tawnos]

The only way I can see them truly being on equal footing is because (I believe) ADA is no longer waiver-exempt. I think the organization is higher on Pionk, though camp and Quinn's preferences may change things.

I'm not talking about how the organization views things, which is a movable feast. I'm talking about where they are in their career arcs.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'm not talking about how the organization views things, which is a movable feast. I'm talking about where they are in their career arcs.

Oh, well, still. I'd still put Pionk ahead. I see Pionk as a guy on the upswing, and I'm still not sold ADA sticks. That's just my opinion, though. We'll see how camp and everything shakes out.

 

[Tawnos]

Oh, well, still. I'd still put Pionk ahead. I see Pionk as a guy on the upswing, and I'm still not sold ADA sticks. That's just my opinion, though. We'll see how camp and everything shakes out.

Yeah... well... I think I'd put it another way. Percentage chances of being on the opening night roster, if all are healthy, for RD go something like this:

Shattenkirk: 100%
Smith: 75%
Pionk: 55%
DeAngelo: 45%
Bigras: 20%
Day: 5%
Kampfer: 0%

So in a way, I agree with you.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think they’ll wipe last year from their memory. Skjei finished the year looking like a garbage can on skates. Pionk looked like a younger version of girardi. ADA looked like sophomore slump MDZ. And Smith wasn’t an nhl player

Well, I hope they don't wipe from memory that Smith came in fat and out of shape. Give him another shot, sure, but if he looks unimpressive again they need to do something severe, as that would be two years in a row. Skjei, sure, tell him we'll give him a free pass on last season. Sophomore slump, in over his head, shit system. All is forgotten.

The other two, however, there's NHL games to evaluate them on, that, while playing with a bunch of shit players and in a shit system, still matter. You can still watch and make determinations about what they excel at, what they struggle with, etc., while acknowledging that their overall game suffered because of the circumstances. I don't think last year shouldn't count at all. Like a guy like Rob O'Gara, he was horrific when he first came, but by the end of things I thought he had actually settled down and looked pretty decent in his role. We shouldn't throw that out. All the guys showed some good things and some bad things. Also, with guys like Pionk and ADA, they can also be evaluated on their AHL performances. That's obviously not as important as what they did in the NHL, but it's still relevant.

I just think it would be a mistake to completely disregard what happened last season and to pretend like it didn't exist. There's play there that can be evaluated within the context of everything that was happening.

 

[nyr2k2]

Yeah... well... I think I'd put it another way. Percentage chances of being on the opening night roster, if all are healthy, for RD go something like this:

Shattenkirk: 100%
Smith: 75%
Pionk: 55%
DeAngelo: 45%
Bigras: 20%
Day: 5%
Kampfer: 0%

So in a way, I agree with you.

Yeah I definitely agree with the top four there. Really the only disagreement I have with that ordering and those percentages is that I think Kampfer is just one of those guys that the organization really likes for no good reason other than being a vet, and he'd win a spot simply because of that and the fact that he can be benched and no one cares or suffers. Otherwise, I agree.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah I definitely agree with the top four there. Really the only disagreement I have with that ordering and those percentages is that I think Kampfer is just one of those guys that the organization really likes for no good reason other than being a vet, and he'd win a spot simply because of that and the fact that he can be benched and no one cares or suffers. Otherwise, I agree.

The Kampfer thing is more of a result of me mis-stating. I think Kampfer has no shot at being in the lineup opening night. He might very well be on the roster.

 

[will1066]

I would think the organization has Pionk ahead of ADA currently and may have him ahead of Smith as well, even assuming Smith gets back to something resembling what he used to be.

I think the organization is going blank slate with all those guys. It’s a new coach and team sports are more about system than anything.

This is my feeling also. I don't think that Pionk logging a lot of minutes last year and because TDA sat out after getting hurt are going to mean much, when you look at TDA's better raw talent between the two.