Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo (MOD WARNINGS: Post #12/#900)

[nyr2k2]

This is my feeling also. I don't think that Pionk logging a lot of minutes last year and because TDA sat out after getting hurt are going to mean much, when you look at TDA's better raw talent between the two.

I wouldn't conflate "skill' and "talent." ADA may be the player with the better pure skill set, but I'm not remotely convinced he's more talented than Pionk.

Anyway I'm done talking about how I like Pionk more than ADA/Paul Coffey.

 

[TheTakedown]

I see I'm not the only one who has to remind himself of the existence of John Gilmour. Also, our one UFA signing.

meh true...

claesson could be a good defensive dman for us but outside of that i see nothing of worth with gilmour

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’d rather see what Gilmour can do than watch Staal out there on a nightly basis.

That’s just me.

 

[RGY]

I’d rather see what Gilmour can do than watch Staal out there on a nightly basis.

That’s just me.

God No. Just no. Anyone but Gilmour. He is a deer in headlights defensively. In fact he is really not much of a “defenseman” at all.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

God No. Just no. Anyone but Gilmour. He is a deer in headlights defensively. In fact he is really not much of a “defenseman” at all.

Neither is Staal

 

[Machinehead]

Don't understand the Gilmour hate at all. Most fanbases latch onto random players that they love for no reason. This one latches onto random players that they hate for no reason.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Well hate is a strong word but there are quite some reasons as to dislike Gilmour. Hasn't impressed me, except his skating and that one nice goal. He won't dominate physically unless he puts on serious weight.

also lol @ Gilmour over Staal

 

[chosen]

Don't understand the Gilmour hate at all. Most fanbases latch onto random players that they love for no reason. This one latches onto random players that they hate for no reason.

Every fanbase latches onto random players that they love for no reason. Every fanbase latches onto random players that they hate for no reason.

A simple peek at all the team boards here will confirm that.

 

[Machinehead]

Well hate is a strong word but there are quite some reasons as to dislike Gilmour. Hasn't impressed me, except his skating and that one nice goal. He won't dominate physically unless he puts on serious weight.

also lol @ Gilmour over Staal

We're going to criticize Gilmour's lack of physicality while comparing him to Marc Staal's cotton ass?

 

[will1066]

Staal is going to be a traffic cone or a slalom gate in a league that's getting younger and faster by the day.

 

[silverfish]

Don't understand the Gilmour hate at all. Most fanbases latch onto random players that they love for no reason. This one latches onto random players that they hate for no reason.

Swap his PDO with Pionk's and you've got a future all-star and the debate is whether or not he's better than Skjei.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I don't see Smith making this team on the left. Skjei and Staal aren't going anywhere and I think between them plus Claesson, Gilmour, Hajek, and Lindgren, we will have 4 LD not named Smith. Throw O'Gara in there if you'd like, although I think he's AHL bound in any scenario.



I put DeAngelo ahead of Pionk, but I really think they're on equal footing at the moment.

Agree about Smith, he should play RD, but no way anybody views ADA ahead of Pionk, especially after Pionk played for team USA.

 

[nyr2k2]

Swap his PDO with Pionk's and you've got a future all-star and the debate is whether or not he's better than Skjei.

Maybe for the handful of dolts that base their entire evaluation of a player on countings stats and literally nothing else. The rest of us, I think, would be able to see past that. Gilmour would obviously be viewed more highly than he is, but I don't think it would be anything crazy. A lot of people didn't like him even when he came out hot.

 

[eco's bones]

I'm not crazy about Gilmour mind you but he got a good look at what NHL life is about and he's had a whole summer to reflect and prepare for this season and sometimes players grow from their first NHL experience in their second experience. For young players just getting that initial look sometimes means a lot.

Truthfully I thought he had an awful first year pro--a much better second year but his defense kind of sucks and his riverboat gambling kind of game was too often exploited by opposing teams. That being said I was impressed with his hockey skills--particularly his skating and that being said he played better than I expected he would. So......whereas I'm not expecting him to make the Rangers at the same time I'm not completely discounting him either.

 

[Machinehead]

Swap his PDO with Pionk's and you've got a future all-star and the debate is whether or not he's better than Skjei.

Fun fact: Skjei is the random player this fanbase loves unconditionally.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I'm not crazy about Gilmour mind you but he got a good look at what NHL life is about and he's had a whole summer to reflect and prepare for this season and sometimes players grow from their first NHL experience in their second experience. For young players just getting that initial look sometimes means a lot.

Truthfully I thought he had an awful first year pro--a much better second year but his defense kind of sucks and his riverboat gambling kind of game was too often exploited by opposing teams. That being said I was impressed with his hockey skills--particularly his skating and that being said he played better than I expected he would. So......whereas I'm not expecting him to make the Rangers at the same time I'm not completely discounting him either.

Would have been interesting to try him at forward with all that speed.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Staal is going to be a traffic cone or a slalom gate in a league that's getting younger and faster by the day.

Is there a deadline to buy him out?

 

[Irishguy42]

Is there a deadline to buy him out?

The Rangers did qualify for a second buyout window, AFAIK, which started 3 days after Spooner signed, and lasted for 48 hours.

So yes, there was a deadline. It's gone now. The next chance will be the later of June 15, 2019 or 48 hours after the SCF finishes.

 

[silverfish]

Maybe for the handful of dolts that base their entire evaluation of a player on countings stats and literally nothing else. The rest of us, I think, would be able to see past that. Gilmour would obviously be viewed more highly than he is, but I don't think it would be anything crazy. A lot of people didn't like him even when he came out hot.

Perhaps I'm pessimistic, but I think most people's evaluations of players essentially boil down to:

1) How much did Sam and Joe talk about them during the game?
2) Do I remember them being on the ice for goals against?

 

[NYR Viper]

John Gilmour's improvement from year 1 to year 2 as a pro was night and day. If he can improve even at half the speed in this current off-season he's a legit NHLer.

For those that don't know, he went from being horrid in the AHL to an AHL all-star and a depth NHL defenseman in the matter of a year. That's impressive no matter how you look at it.

Honestly, I'd take Gilmour, for all his warts and faults, at his current salary over Staal at his.

I'm lukewarm on Gilmour. He makes things happen when he is on the ice, for good and bad. Is he that different than other rovers on the back-end? I don't think so

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Gilmour has his warts and all, but I’d rather see him try to figure things out and possibly turn into something, whether it be here or as a trade chip, than watch Staal slug his way around the ice while playing hot potato with the puck when ever it’s on his stick.

 

[nyr2k2]

It's definitely true that Gilmour improved from his first season to his second season, and it's also true that with some better puck luck his numbers could have been more impressive. However, he's also 25. He's almost identical in age to Vesey, and people are constantly pointing out Vesey's age and saying that he should be in his prime and asking how much more in him could he have? I think the same is true for Gilmour. How many guys in their age 25-26 season take the jump from fringe NHL/AHL tweener to regular NHL contributor? I'm really asking because I don't know, but I imagine it's not many.

Gilmour looks like a depth/7D to me, and that's about it. He could take another big step forward but that seems unlikely.

 

[NYR Viper]

It's definitely true that Gilmour improved from his first season to his second season, and it's also true that with some better puck luck his numbers could have been more impressive. However, he's also 25. He's almost identical in age to Vesey, and people are constantly pointing out Vesey's age and saying that he should be in his prime and asking how much more in him could he have? I think the same is true for Gilmour. How many guys in their age 25-26 season take the jump from fringe NHL/AHL tweener to regular NHL contributor? I'm really asking because I don't know, but I imagine it's not many.

Gilmour looks like a depth/7D to me, and that's about it. He could take another big step forward but that seems unlikely.

Dan Boyle took a while, so did Brian Campbell and Brian Rafalski. It seems like the smaller quick skating defensemen often take some extra time to mature. Most likely because they have to learn how to use their speed and skating to their advantage at each level without having the strength to out-muscle guys.

I'm not saying he will be any of those guys, but the smaller defensemen seem to take longer as a rule

 

[kovazub94]

John Gilmour's improvement from year 1 to year 2 as a pro was night and day. If he can improve even at half the speed in this current off-season he's a legit NHLer.

For those that don't know, he went from being horrid in the AHL to an AHL all-star and a depth NHL defenseman in the matter of a year. That's impressive no matter how you look at it.

Honestly, I'd take Gilmour, for all his warts and faults, at his current salary over Staal at his.

I'm lukewarm on Gilmour. He makes things happen when he is on the ice, for good and bad. Is he that different than other rovers on the back-end? I don't think so

I was nodding in agreement until I read the bolded statement. For the upcoming season a) Staal's salary (meaning cap impact) is irrelevant and b) the way the current D is constructed I'll take Staal's veteran's present and PK over, or at least on a par with, what Gilmour brings. Assuming Pionk and ADA make the roster the Rangers would already carry 2 D rookies. I have no problem with Gilmour being among 7/8 D with the Rangers and taking an occasional game or getting a spot as an injury replacement, but Gilmour to me is down the depth chart after Pionk, ADA, Staal and Smith (Skjei and Shattenkirk are 100% locks). And yes what happens at RD does have an impact on Gilmour even though he's LD.

 

[Off Sides]

I'm thinking it's kind of a group of 11D who will be competing for a spot.

Skjei, Shattenkirk, Staal, Smith, ADA, Pionk, Claesson, Kampfer, O'Gara, Gilmour, Bigas

Out of those Pionk, Gilmour, O'Gara are waiver exempt. Whether we like it or not waivers are something a team has to factor in.

Similarly not letting developing players become the default scratch is another factor.

They likely will hope some of the vet NHLers can increase their trade value even if that may be far fetched.

I assume they keep 8 defenders on the NHL roster. Until camp/preseason I don't think any of them are locks except Skjei, Shattenkirk.

Not including injury or a trade

I assume if Smith and Staal are viable they stay up

I don't think they are going to waive ADA and they will want to see Pionk at the NHL level again.

I think Claesson, Kampfer are the players they are not thinking it hurts them to be scratches

Bigas is waiver eligible, if he plays well enough I'm not sure if they take that chance, I assume they would rather risk Kampfer to waivers but it will depend on the play of Bigas and if they think he will just be scratched anyway.

Gilmour, O'Gara are waiver exempt, I think they'd really have to wow them or have someone else really disappoint to make it, but if either or both does impress enough I assume it is somewhat possible they bump Claesson, Kampfer, maybe even Staal, Smith, or even Pionk out but I think that is a sort of a remote possibility, and again if they are only going to end up the scratches it's not really helping them improve.