Tomas Tatar: no more AHL

[HTT3*]

Oh jeez.

That may be what Tatar has shown in his short time as a call-up, but when he gets reasonable ice time and adjusts to the league, he's certainly capable of near 30 goals someday. Especially playing with Z or D.

Just because he only received 3rd line ice time as a rookie call-up doesn't make that his ceiling. He's far too skilled and his speed in the top 6 is very much needed.

Guess we'll see. But I totally understand why fans of other teams always say "Detroit fans overrate their prospects", which is proving to be true. I cringe whenever I see someone make a bold prediction about our prospects. 30 goals is a HUGE feat. Patrick Sharp doesn't even score 30 goals consistently every season and he's got all the offensive tools you want in a player. Tatar doesn't even have 10% of Sharps offensive awareness. On the flip side, Tatar isn't a Hudler type player either, he's not a floater who hides to the side of the net waiting for that sneaky one-timer. Tatar reminds me more of a smaller, weaker version of Miller with better hands. I'd be impressed if Tatar scored 20 goals a few times in his career.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

Says the guy who thinks Tatar will be a 30+goal man in the NHL...

He might be a solid 3rd liner who can pop in 15 goals a season. Small and redundant. Wings have enough bottom 6 players.

Except when he was drafted he was a top 6 or bust prospect. He'd done nothing to show us that he can't be a big part of rebuild going forward. The fact that he's done everything the organization has asked of him means they do value him, I'd be willing to say the value him quite a bit. The reason Nyquist is up is because 1) he's the better player right now 2) he's out of options next year & 3) he hadn't been called up yet this year.

Tatar has added the defensive ability & the physical play needed to be a top 9 player. He has always had 50-60 point potential, it's not outlandish to think that he could put up 30 goals, maybe 30+ goals, in a career year. There have been numerous examples of people out producing their "Potential" and they keep on producing those numbers. Will it happen with Tatar? Only time will tell us but you thinking he will only have a max of 15 goals in a year is just as outlandish as the 30+ goal production.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Guess we'll see. But I totally understand why fans of other teams always say "Detroit fans overrate their prospects", which is proving to be true. I cringe whenever I see someone make a bold prediction about our prospects. 30 goals is a HUGE feat. Patrick Sharp doesn't even score 30 goals consistently every season and he's got all the offensive tools you want in a player. Tatar doesn't even have 10% of Sharps offensive awareness. On the flip side, Tatar isn't a Hudler type player either, he's not a floater who hides to the side of the net waiting for that sneaky one-timer. Tatar reminds me more of a smaller, weaker version of Miller with better hands. I'd be impressed if Tatar scored 20 goals a few times in his career.

Tomas Tatar is stronger than Drew Miller right now. He also has 15lbs on him and an advantage in every single hockey category except the ability to PK (where Miller has become vastly overrated) and height.

I am curious why Tatar or Nyquist was never really tried in the PK roles. We were grooming these guys right, would like the Wings to do a better job of this at the minor league level. Top 6 guys down there should be learning that skill set. Jurco should be getting shifts it will help him when he gets up here and adds a talent to his skill sets. This is something that really bothers me, had Tatar been groomed to play PK and the way he has learned a lot of talents I don't see why he couldn't be, one of the major arguments for keeping him off the squad over a couple of guys flat out disappears.

 

[HTT3*]

Except when he was drafted he was a top 6 or bust prospect. He'd done nothing to show us that he can't be a big part of rebuild going forward. The fact that he's done everything the organization has asked of him means they do value him, I'd be willing to say the value him quite a bit. The reason Nyquist is up is because 1) he's the better player right now 2) he's out of options next year & 3) he hadn't been called up yet this year.

Tatar has added the defensive ability & the physical play needed to be a top 9 player. He has always had 50-60 point potential, it's not outlandish to think that he could put up 30 goals, maybe 30+ goals, in a career year. There have been numerous examples of people out producing their "Potential" and they keep on producing those numbers. Will it happen with Tatar? Only time will tell us but you thinking he will only have a max of 15 goals in a year is just as outlandish as the 30+ goal production.

I've read a lot of reports on Tatar and never read anywhere that he was suppose to be a top 6 or bust player. I thought the day we drafted him he was going to be a 3rd liner with the ability to do like Dan Cleary and fill in on the top 6 role as needed. I don't see Tatar ever scoring 30 goals, Dan Cleary didn't even score 30 goals in his career. If Tatar scores 20 goals in his NHL venture, I'll be happy.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I've read a lot of reports on Tatar and never read anywhere that he was a top 6 or bust player. I thought the day we drafted him he was going to be 3rd liner with the ability to do like Dan Cleary and fill in on the top 6 role as needed.

He was originally tabbed as a top 6 player or bust. He has rounded out his game into an ability to play top 9 (very recently, basically the last 14 months, part of why he was not up last year at all) but the depth role ability was not the initial thought.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

5-on-5 points per 60 minutes
Tatar 2.09
Datsyuk 1.97
Franzen 1.71
Brunner 1.59
Zetterberg 1.59
Filppula 1.46
Nyquist 1.34
Abdelkader 1.26
Andersson 1.23
Kindl 1.11
Eaves 1.05
Emmerton 0.92
Tootoo 0.89
Ericsson 0.86
Miller 0.86
Kronwall 0.80
Cleary 0.79

 

[HTT3*]

He was originally tabbed as a top 6 player or bust. He has rounded out his game into an ability to play top 9 (very recently, basically the last 14 months, part of why he was not up last year at all) but the depth role ability was not the initial thought.

I never read that scouting report on him. I checked redwingscentral and hockeyfuture on him just now and nowhere does it say this. I was under the assumption he was going to be a 3rd line guy when Holland drafted him.

 

[InjuredChoker]

5-on-5 points per 60 minutes
Tatar 2.09
Datsyuk 1.97
Franzen 1.71
Brunner 1.59
Zetterberg 1.59
Filppula 1.46
Nyquist 1.34
Abdelkader 1.26
Andersson 1.23
Kindl 1.11
Eaves 1.05
Emmerton 0.92
Tootoo 0.89
Ericsson 0.86
Miller 0.86
Kronwall 0.80
Cleary 0.79

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Knock off the Tatar hating.

This kid produced BETTER than any other Red Wing in his stretch here.

When I say he's a 30+goal man, I'm not basing it on his Grand Rapids stats. I'm basing it on what I saw from him, shift-after-shift-after-shift in the NHL.

Virtually nobody who saw Tatar playing this year was not impressed. Not only with his production, but with the way he consistently made plays even when they didn't go in. Defensively, I can only remember one glaring error and one poor penalty.

The only reason people weren't livid about Tatar's demotion was because those same fans were happy to have Nyquist called up.

But Tatar was so much better than Nyquist it's not funny.

And my God. Look at Danny Cleary's numbers.

 

[Vladdy84]

5-on-5 points per 60 minutes
Tatar 2.09
Datsyuk 1.97
Franzen 1.71
Brunner 1.59
Zetterberg 1.59
Filppula 1.46
Nyquist 1.34
Abdelkader 1.26
Andersson 1.23
Kindl 1.11
Eaves 1.05
Emmerton 0.92
Tootoo 0.89
Ericsson 0.86
Miller 0.86
Kronwall 0.80
Cleary 0.79

Cleary and Kronwall

They're a combined -18 and have 74 PIM. Cleary has the 2nd highest PIM at forward on the team, only 3 behind Mule (tootoo doesn't count). Only player with as lousy of +/- on the team is Lashoff.

 

[HTT3*]

5-on-5 points per 60 minutes
Tatar 2.09
Datsyuk 1.97
Franzen 1.71
Brunner 1.59
Zetterberg 1.59
Filppula 1.46
Nyquist 1.34
Abdelkader 1.26
Andersson 1.23
Kindl 1.11
Eaves 1.05
Emmerton 0.92
Tootoo 0.89
Ericsson 0.86
Miller 0.86
Kronwall 0.80
Cleary 0.79

Look out Sidney Crosby, there is a new player in town. 18 game played All-Star.

Maybe next lockout, GMs will agree on changing the 82 game season into 18 game season so it can bloat that useless corsi stats

 

[HTT3*]

Knock off the Tatar hating.

This kid produced BETTER than any other Red Wing in his stretch here.

When I say he's a 30+goal man, I'm not basing it on his Grand Rapids stats. I'm basing it on what I saw from him, shift-after-shift-after-shift in the NHL.

Virtually nobody who saw Tatar playing this year was not impressed. Not only with his production, but with the way he consistently made plays even when they didn't go in. Defensively, I can only remember one glaring error and one poor penalty.

The only reason people weren't livid about Tatar's demotion was because those same fans were happy to have Nyquist called up.

But Tatar was so much better than Nyquist it's not funny.

And my God. Look at Danny Cleary's numbers.

I've watched Tatar play those same games and was less impressed. Who's right, who's wrong?

There's a reason why Nyquist is in the NHL and Tatar is not. Because Nyquist is the better player right now.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I never read that scouting report on him. I checked redwingscentral and hockeyfuture on him just now and nowhere does it say this. I was under the assumption he was going to be a 3rd line guy when Holland drafted him.

REDWINGSCENTRAL right now

“He’s a little bit bigger than (Jiri) Hudler, but this guy can skate. If there’s one knock on Hudler, it’s that he doesn’t have that top speed. Tatar has good top speed. He has good offensive instincts, too. He can shoot the puck, he can make a play, he can beat a defenseman 1-on-1. He could be a top two line player in the future. He can be a real sniper.†— Red Wings director of European scouting Hakan Andersson (June 2009)

“He’s relevant in every game. He has a big future ahead of him. He’s got really, really nice hands, really good vision and he’s hard on the puck in the corners. He plays the game hard, too, for a skilled guy. He’s not big but he’s strong on his skates.†— Griffins general manager Bob McNamara (March 2010)

s not big but he’s strong on his skates.†— Griffins general manager Bob McNamara (March 2010) … “He’s got a passion for the game and good offensive instincts. He thinks the game well. He’s the first guy in the corner getting the puck. He goes to the net.†— Nill (March 2011, The Hockey News)

Read Matt Wuest's assessment

Simply loves to play the game and has off-the-charts hockey passion … Cerebral hockey player with a sixth sense in the offensive zone … Always in the right place at the right time from the offensive blue line in … Boasts a threatening arsenal of offensive tools, with good skating, dangerous 1-on-1 ability and a hard shot … Has a nose for the net and bulls into traffic to get the puck … Smart on power play … Hard worker has a jump to his step every shift … Infectious energy … Capable of killing penalties, blocking shots, and playing responsibly in his own zone.

See more here http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/tomas-tatar/

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Knock off the Tatar hating.

This kid produced BETTER than any other Red Wing in his stretch here.

When I say he's a 30+goal man, I'm not basing it on his Grand Rapids stats. I'm basing it on what I saw from him, shift-after-shift-after-shift in the NHL.

Virtually nobody who saw Tatar playing this year was not impressed. Not only with his production, but with the way he consistently made plays even when they didn't go in. Defensively, I can only remember one glaring error and one poor penalty.

The only reason people weren't livid about Tatar's demotion was because those same fans were happy to have Nyquist called up.

But Tatar was so much better than Nyquist it's not funny.

And my God. Look at Danny Cleary's numbers.

I am not hating on him, I still prefer Nyquist in that debate that is all. Tatar was very impressive when up, he has been below average at the AHL level since going back. But that doesn't matter because he shouldn't have really been sent down. I just think his projections are getting a little unreasonable is all. He is a good player a 50-65 point winger that pumps in between 20-30 goals is a good thing to have.

The other thing is he has improved significantly in a lot of areas and shows a hunger for doing so. So he could really knock it out of the park, those are the numbers you are talking about, great if it happens, I doubt it does is all. He still has a ways to go to the numbers I am talking about, I think he gets there.

If I have to move one, I move Tatar, I would prefer we don't move either, but if we must move one we better get a nice return on Tatar.

As everyone has said the Tatar debate shouldn't be Tatar or Nyquist. It should be Tatar against Eaves/Miller/Cleary/Bert/Sammy/Abdelkader. Even Filppula at this point.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Look out Sidney Crosby, there is a new player in town. 18 game played All-Star.

Maybe next lockout, GMs will agree on changing the 82 game season into 18 game season so it can bloat that useless corsi stats

Great argument.

His 18 games played are better than Nyquist's stint here. And it's not even close.

 

[PullHard]

HTT3,

5on5 production per 60 mins =/= corsi,

you are basically defending every move that Holland has made so far this year, and I get it, you like his moves, but we're in 9th with 5 games left in the season... Can you not recognize that this team isn't "succeeding"? Why are you defending a 9th place team?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Great argument.

His 18 games played are better than Nyquist's stint here. And it's not even close.

It is one point different, and whereas Nyquist's bad games came at the start of his run Tatar's came more at the end of his run. Nyquist has been consistently dangerous in the last 10 games in a similar way to what Tatar was doing. They have both earned their keep.

Wish we could get the all rookie line

Nyquist - Andersson - Tatar

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I am not hating on him,

Not talking to you.

I still prefer Nyquist in that debate that is all. Tatar was very impressive when up, he has been below average at the AHL level since going back. But that doesn't matter because he shouldn't have really been sent down. I just think his projections are getting a little unreasonable is all. He is a good player a 50-65 point winger that pumps in between 20-30 goals is a good thing to have.

It's going to depend on the team and the center.
But I see Tatar has having the capability, instincts and drive to big a big producer in this league.

Tatar, IMO, reminds me a lot of Parise. Doesn't have the blazing speed, but I think he's even hungrier for goals than Parise

Draft Year
Tatar WJC - 7 games 7+4=11
Parise WJC - 7 games 4+4=8

Year I
Tatar WJC - 6 games 3+2=5 (also scored 2 goals in 6 games at World Championships)
Parise WJC - 6 games 5+6=11

Year 2
Tatar AHL 24+33=58
Parise AHL 18+40=58

Year 3. Parise graduates to the NHL. Tatar demoted to AHL two more years.

We are literally BURNING some of what should be the most productive years of his career.

As everyone has said the Tatar debate shouldn't be Tatar or Nyquist. It should be Tatar against Eaves/Miller/Cleary/Bert/Sammy/Abdelkader. Even Filppula at this point.

I agree.
But I have no faith in this organization to frame this question right.

I was OK with letting Hudler walk because I figured we were going to let one of the kids take his spot. Nope.

 

[HTT3*]

REDWINGSCENTRAL right now

Read Matt Wuest's assessment


See more here http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/tomas-tatar/

Yup, read it. Still don't see where it says he was suppose to be a top 6 or bust player. I never read anyone say that in any of the reports I've read, and you just proved that for me. Thanks

btw, Hudler was a nice 3rd line guy. He and Flip had good chemistry on the 3rd line together....

I was OK with letting Hudler walk because I figured we were going to let one of the kids take his spot. Nope.

So Holland shouldn't have pursued Damian Brunner? Gotcha

 

[HTT3*]

HTT3,

5on5 production per 60 mins =/= corsi,

you are basically defending every move that Holland has made so far this year, and I get it, you like his moves, but we're in 9th with 5 games left in the season... Can you not recognize that this team isn't "succeeding"? Why are you defending a 9th place team?

I think Red Wings are 9th due to more factors than Tatar not playing. Like never getting top 3 draft picks, injuries, short season due to lockout, fatigue on the euro twins due to injuries, Smith being a complete let-down, too many rookies and sophmores injected into the lineup due to injuries, and I think Howard is playing too much, Monster didn't help much.

I think if Bert and Sammy were healthy and the team had time to build some chemistry with the new players, Red Wings would be top 5 right now.

As for defending Holland, I can't look at anything he's done and think "he should have done this" that would have made a HUGE impact on the DRWs making them a legit cup contender, unless of course, you want him to mortgage the entire future for a bunch of rentals for a one year window?? Even then, the team is too beat up and fatigue, it's just not their year. I chalk it up to "welcome to the Nu:NHL where the league is designed to give everyone a chance at winning".

 

[Run the Jewels]

Yup, read it. Still don't see where it says he was suppose to be a top 6 or bust player. I never read anyone say that in any of the reports I've read, and you just proved that for me. Thanks

btw, Hudler was a nice 3rd line guy. He and Flip had good chemistry on the 3rd line together....

I'd agree that Tatar will be similar to Hudler as far as being very productive on the third line. Different style of play obviously but similar as far as being guys who can generate offense at a good clip on your third line.

 

[cupforwings09]

Great argument.

His 18 games played are better than Nyquist's stint here. And it's not even close.

LOL, great argument. Nyquist is better then Tatar, and it's not even close. I'm still suprised people think Tatar is better. All you need is minimal Hockey IQ, then watch the games, and its right in front of you. The only time I hear people saying Tatar is better then Nyquist is in this forum. I like Tatar, and I think he should be playing right now, but he is not better then Nyquist.

 

[cupforwings09]

I agree.
But I have no faith in this organization to frame this question right.

I was OK with letting Hudler walk because I figured we were going to let one of the kids take his spot. Nope.

You can't just put Tatar in for what Bertuzzi does. Thats not how you build a team.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Yup, read it. Still don't see where it says he was suppose to be a top 6 or bust player. I never read anyone say that in any of the reports I've read, and you just proved that for me. Thanks

btw, Hudler was a nice 3rd line guy. He and Flip had good chemistry on the 3rd line together....



So Holland shouldn't have pursued Damian Brunner? Gotcha

He shouldn't have pursued Sammy or Tootoo

 

[RedWingsNow*]

LOL, great argument. Nyquist is better then Tatar, and it's not even close. I'm still suprised people think Tatar is better. All you need is minimal Hockey IQ, then watch the games, and its right in front of you. The only time I hear people saying Tatar is better then Nyquist is in this forum. I like Tatar, and I think he should be playing right now, but he is not better then Nyquist.

I agree, all you need is minimal Hockey IQ to think that Nyquist is better.