Player Discussion Tom Wilson, NHL All-Star (Part 3)

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
30,433
14,292
Read the portion of my post that was responding to your quote. Specifically read the boarding rule I quoted. Wilson’s actions are illegal, and a repeated element of his play across multiple seasons.

Read several of my posts detailing why just about any hit is "illegal" per the boarding rule.

Wilson is also one of the most prolific hitters. By sheer volume alone some injuries can be expected, even accidental ones. Especially accidental ones.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
14,131
New Bern, NC
I don't think noting primary point of contact was about parsing a rule so much as refuting this ridiculous spin Twabby is putting on the hit. What person "clobbers" or punches another person with their hands pinned to their body instead of extending/shoving/punching?

It's a lie.

And it's not a double standard to note someone is elite at X but being punished for Y. Another strawman. Or maybe it's a false dichotomy. Let's go with both.

Dichotomy gets the vocabulary award for the day. :clap:
 

twabby

Registered User
Mar 9, 2010
13,625
14,444
Not "significant," no. If you read back, I objected and continue to object to your characterization of the contact... There's head contact but it's not the primary point of impact; it's sure not clobbering; and it's incidental, occurring despite Wilson doing every single thing the DoPs told him 2 years ago he had to do to clean up his act. So your position is effectively that Wilson cannot hit guys, even legally, because they might get hurt.

Incidental or not, accidental or not, it was a reasonable outcome given the hit Wilson was trying to deliver. This wasn't some freak one in a million accident. He missed his target, and he has missed his target several times before. Had his hand not made contact with Carlo's head, it's reasonable to believe Carlo's head would not have slammed into the glass violently, which according to the DoPS video is why this hit was suspendable. Indeed the slo-mo video shows to me that Carlo's head does not move toward the glass until Tom Wilson's hand impacts his head. And if there was not a lot of force, and it was merely a grazing blow or similar, then Brandon Carlo's head would not have flown into the boards like it did and he would not have sustained an injury like he did. It doesn't matter that his hands weren't extended from his body, his hands came up high and hard. I'm not going to quibble about "primary" point of contact because this isn't an illegal check to the head, it's boarding. Boarding does not require the head to be the primary point of contact, it does not require it to be a hit from behind. It was a significant impact with the head because if it were not significant, then Brandon Carlo's head would not have violently impacted the boards and he would not be out week-to-week with a concussion or other head/neck injuries.

Of course Wilson can legally hit guys, but he like everyone else accepts a risk if it goes wrong. The DoPS did not say he could make contact with a player's head along the glass with his hand and make it violently impact the boards. It's grasping for straws to say that Tom Wilson did everything the DoPS asked for here. Just because he didn't leave his feet, or pick the head, or similar does not mean that Tom Wilson has done everything the DoPS asked for. The DoPS has asked for him to stop committing illegal penalties that result in significant injuries.

You can make the argument that you think Carlo was not defenseless. However, I think it's unreasonable to say that you are 100% sure that he was not defenseless, and I think it's unreasonable for anyone to say that the NHL is unreasonable to say that they think he was defenseless. I think there is some doubt in both opinions, but as a repeat offender and perhaps the most dangerous player in the league it is reasonable to say that Tom Wilson does not deserve the benefit of this doubt where other players in the league would deserve the benefit of this doubt. Hence, the comments by Elliotte Friedman's contacts around the league.

I think the reaction here that this was 100% clean and that the NHL f***ed up royally is just sour grapes whining and wholly unreasonable. If you think it should have only been a 2 game suspension, ok fine. I won't fully agree, but I get it. If you think he should have gotten 20+ games, ok fine. I won't fully agree but I get it.

But to say that he should have received nothing and that it was 100% clean is unreasonable, given his history, given the circumstances of the hit, and given the injury. And on the other hand if the NHL levied a 50+ game suspension I do not think that would have been a reasonable outcome either. 7 games is a perfectly reasonable suspension length given everything.
 

Calicaps

NFA
Aug 3, 2006
21,816
14,097
Almost Canada
Read the portion of my post that was responding to your quote. Specifically read the boarding rule I quoted. Wilson’s actions are illegal, and a repeated element of his play across multiple seasons.
Those descriptions are objectively meaningless because they don't define "violent" or "dangerous." Do they presume that a hit which doesn't cause injury was not violent or dangerous?
 
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CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
64,388
19,089
If Backstrom makes that hit and destroys Carlo, is he getting suspended? If so, I’d take that number whatever it is.

On a hit like this, the only fair course of action is to treat all players alike. This was not some egregious mugging or attack....it was a great hockey check and unfortunately the dude lowered his head and he got bounced....
 

crab

Registered User
Jan 26, 2019
2,007
2,579
If Backstrom makes that hit and destroys Carlo, is he getting suspended? If so, I’d take that number whatever it is.

On a hit like this, the only fair course of action is to treat all players alike. This was not some egregious mugging or attack....it was a great hockey check and unfortunately the dude lowered his head and he got bounced....

Remember when Backstrom got suspended for cross-checking in the playoffs against the Bruins? A guy that had no previous suspensions, clean history, a play that was questionable at best and similar infractions have never been suspended.

The NHLs supplementary discipline is a joke, was a joke and I expect it to continue to be a joke.

You had the father of an active NHL player in charge at one point and now an ex-plug enforcer. The whole system needs to be changed.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
37,009
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Philadelphia
Those descriptions are objectively meaningless because they don't define "violent" or "dangerous." Do they presume that a hit which doesn't cause injury was not violent or dangerous?

Do you need hockey-specific definitions for those words? Just use the dictionary ones. As is mentioned right in the rule, boarding is a call that relies heavily on judgement. It was judged that the hit was dangerous and violent. Do you really disagree about that? He drove the dudes head into the boards at full speed.
 
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Calicaps

NFA
Aug 3, 2006
21,816
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Almost Canada
Do you need hockey-specific definitions for those words? Just use the dictionary ones. As is mentioned right in the rule, boarding is a call that relies heavily on judgement. It was judged that the hit was dangerous and violent. Do you really disagree about that? He drove the dudes head into the boards at full speed.
Yes, I do need specifics. Based on the DoPs video, if Carlo hadn't been injured, the hit wouldn't have been deemed violent. But I'd say most big body checks are violent. The outcome shouldn't be the defining factor... because if it is, then there's no definition at all.

Any rule that relies that heavily on judgement isn't much of a rule. For the purposes of whether a guy gets a penalty, a game misconduct, a suspension, etc... I think the league should be able to be precise. Whose judgement should govern? If a bunch of league insiders say it was a hit that happens regularly, what's the value of that judgement? The subjectivity here is insane.
 

HTFN

Registered User
Feb 8, 2009
12,185
10,712
Do you need hockey-specific definitions for those words? Just use the dictionary ones. As is mentioned right in the rule, boarding is a call that relies heavily on judgement. It was judged that the hit was dangerous and violent. Do you really disagree about that? He drove the dudes head into the boards at full speed.
Using the dictionary definition we've seen at least 20 violent collisions into the boards tonight. That's what hitting is.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
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New Bern, NC
MacLellan did a presser today. I can guess that they could put a spin on it otherwise that he was out to comment on Tom Wilson. My take is that he is very pissed off with the league. You should see it for yourself, but he says 3 things about it.

1. Nobody knows the ins and outs and whats legal and not about body checking in the NHL than Tom Wilson. The team and the referees and the league have talked to him and set the boundries for him. He said that with that in mind this play doesnt fit into anything they have told he not to do and he doesnt understand the league response. Mac said the league didnt like the outcome of the play. 2. He said that on 3 occasions he has gone to the league after plays with Oshie where the outcome was bad and be told no action is required each time. 3. He said "This catagory of the totality of the circumstances" he is not sure how anything fits in that and how they are going to use that going forward. He didnt say it but you could read between the lines that he thinks that catagory was invented specifically to use against Wilson

This also the 2nd time the league has moved the goalposts retroactively to go after Wilson.
 

Fred22406Capsfan

Registered User
Jan 19, 2020
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Glad to have you back, sir!

upload_2021-3-19_21-36-27.jpeg
 

Xoleraz

Registered User
May 4, 2021
42
72
He sucker punched Buchnevich while he was defenseless on the ice. He also body slammed Panarin onto the ice.

actually from the footage, I might have been wrong before, I saw many people writing that Tom landed the punch in the back of Buskevich, but after watching the footage over and over again it seems Tom hits him cleanly in the side of his jaw, because Buskevichs head is not flat onto the ice, its on the side. I never realized this from the first angle, you can not see Buskevichs head because its covered by Toms leg.
upload_2021-5-3_23-9-14-gif.429413

585dyw.gif
 
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um

Registered User
Sep 4, 2008
15,699
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toronto
Do you get this upset at every scrum and fight? Unfortunately they happen every game. But life goes on, everyone will be okay

I'm not upset. Hockey's a hobby of mine, I talk about it with people.

Anyways, please show me the examples of this happening every game (wow!). There were a bunch of games tonight.
 

um

Registered User
Sep 4, 2008
15,699
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toronto
It's exactly hockey. I can call hockey when I see one. What's not hockey is what this game has become in recent years after the NHL knelt down to concussion lawsuits and social media mob

I don't enjoy guys like Cooke and Torres and Marchand. I like actual toughness, like Wilson usually is.
 

pman25

Registered User
Aug 29, 2009
4,562
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Richmond
I'm not upset. Hockey's a hobby of mine, I talk about it with people.

Anyways, please show me the examples of this happening every game (wow!). There were a bunch of games tonight.
You can browse the main boards to locate all the latest dirty plays over the past week. It’s a great use of time, highly recommend
 

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