Tom Wilson appeal last 7 hours, Bettman to make ruling in a week. (upd: suspension upheld)

[Syrinx]

The entire arbitration and appeals process is broken.

First, the NHL has complete license to take as long as it wants to schedule appeals. The CBA includes no provisions for due process, so the commissioner can take as long as he/she wants to schedule the appeal hearing, and then as long as he/she wants to issue a ruling after hearing the appeal. It's designed to stretch the appeal so long that the team loses the player regardless of what the final ruling happens to be, in the end. The player may get his money back, but the team still loses the player indefinitely.

As far as the stages go, the first appeal has to go to the commissioner... who has absolutely no reason to ever go against his own office's DoPS. So why have this appeal at all? The reason is clearly to stretch this out. The only thing that this stage of the appeals process does is delay the inevitable appeal to the impartial third-party arbitrator. Which brings us to...

The NHL exclusively selects and hires and fires arbitrators. The NHLPA has no input whatsoever. This is unlike, say, jury selection for a trial. Where's the incentives structure there for arbitrator to rule in favor of the player? Arbitrators make good money for little work, but the strings are there.

This guy in place at present is a dead man walking, as he's already ticked off the league for reducing Watson's suspension. The NHL is going to fire him. Why? Did he fail in his job performance? Well sort of, in the eyes of the NHL office. He had the audacity to rule against them.

Either have a genuine appeals process or don't have one at all. This fig leaf system is just going to piss people off. The NHLPA is going to need to address appeals next go round. Fortunately, it's not going to be long before those talks begin.

If a guy doesn't repeatedly go out and try to hurt people, he doesn't have to deal with all of this. I don't see an issue. The player controls whether he has to deal with all of this or not.

 

[Syrinx]

“Choose”

Tom “chose” to make a hit, period. He does not intend to injure people just like he does not intend to get suspended. I recently read an off-season piece on him in THN and he is aware of his reputation and is trying to balance the line between his style of play and going too far. People on here say stuff like “choose to hit the head” and it’s just ridiculous. Tom is not a ******* that tries to injure people.

Yes he is.

 

[gtrower]

Said in the other thread that I’ve been defending Tom’s hits for years. The playoff hits especially. I still think the Aston-Reeves hit that got him 3 games in the Pens series last year was a hockey play with an unfortunate outcome.

This one does not fit that framework though. Not much to defend. Just unnecessary head contact. And it calls into question other borderline hits from the past.

Think this one was a tipping point of sorts for me. Too many injuries to not see the pattern - even as a Caps fan. Toms unique combination of size/power/speed does factor into this, but clearly his idea of a good hit results in too many injuries for him to be allowed to continue to play that way.

20 games is tough to swallow seeing this one hit. But I understand why they’re doing it. They’ve been trying to get a message across to him to change his style of hitting and he hasn’t done it. Regardless of what he thinks is clean, the NHL clearly doesn’t. It’s on him to adjust. Because the next one is gone get him 40-82 games.

 

[Cellee]

Agree. In college you could ask for a paper or exam to be re-graded but the big proviso was that your grade could go down, not just up.

Appeal should be the same.

It is.

 

[Cellee]

I don’t have the time to respond to all the errors in your post, so I’m simply going to pick this one out as the biggest.

The NHL and NHLPA both agree on the arbitrator, and both have the power to fire him.

That is how any arbitrator situation anywhere works.

 

[DearDiary]

Wilson hits to injure, his brain is simply wired that way to assault people.

Otherwise, someone explain the reasoning behind throwing predatory hits in the preseason. Where half of teams are career junior players skating with their heads down.

The biggest goons in NHL history at least had the class to hold back against guys trying to make their team

 

[shtorm2005]

In Wilson’s suspensions the opponents didn’t change their body positions which is why he gets suspended.

Not sure about you, but I see some body position changes.

Spoiler

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Wilson hits to injure, his brain is simply wired that way to assault people.

Otherwise, someone explain the reasoning behind throwing predatory hits in the preseason. Where half of teams are career junior players skating with their heads down.

The biggest goons in NHL history at least had the class to hold back against guys trying to make their team

Unfortunately he's stuck in the new era so he's not bothered to respect a code or unwritten rules.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Typically these take just a couple hours, but they had to write everything in crayon for Tom Wilson

 

[Anglesmith]

Not even going to read the rest of your post dude. You have thrown common sense out of the window.

See, when I read a post that contains obvious mistakes or fallacies, I have no problem identifying them and pointing them out. You seem to be struggling to do so. But I'll throw you a bone and pretend you actually provided an argument here.

I don't mean to say that Wilson is a head-hunter who wants to go out and hunt heads. If that was what it seemed I was saying, I worded it poorly. I think we can both agree that part of Wilson's game has always been hitting. The guy hits to help his team. He's associated harder hits with a better benefit for his team. He's subconsciously geared up to deliver the hardest checks he can, because he's been conditioned over time to see those as pretty much the best thing he can do for his team. And maybe, somewhere along the way, with all of his experience throwing hits, he subconsciously realized that if he avoids the centre of mass of his opponent and hits the head, it makes for a huge result on the victim and less wear and tear on his own body. Maybe. I'm just speculating ways that this could be not wholly intentional.

But regardless of whether this is true or not, some factor exists which is motivating Wilson to not correct his angle of approach despite the suspensions. It was the same for Raffi Torres. If he can't put it together and intentionally hit through his opponents' bodies, he's going to work himself out of the league, which would be a shame for the Caps, but also for fans who like to see physical play and open-ice hitting.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Typically these take just a couple hours, but they had to write everything in crayon for Tom Wilson

I imagine Wilson holding a crayon with his whole fist, writing "NO SUSPEND ME JORJ" with a couple backward letters.

 

[Saltcreek]

Sort of, but Bettman was interviewed after the dust settled a bit on the Wideman situation, and kind of hinted at the fact that the drawn out appeal process may have been intentional to a certain degree. I don't think this is really a pure scheduling issue.

I wish I could find that interview. I think it was part of the interview after they fired Oldham.

EDIT: Bingo:

NHL dismisses neutral arbitrator from Dennis Wideman case - Sportsnet.ca

I totally agree that the NHL is also dragging it out because it is clear that Wilson is not learning his lesson. If this was his first or even maybe second suspension then I would guess that this process would be much quicker. So, on top of dragging it out the NHL will also not go out of their way to make scheduling arrangements for a person who clearly not changing his ways.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

the point is, it will likely be 3 weeks from when wilson appealed to when bettman makes a decision and thats even before an arbitrator. Im not understanding 1) why the appeal hearing was 2 weeks after he appealed and why bettman needs a week.

no one is saying the hit shouldnt be suspended, Im asking why is it taking so long to do the appeal process?

Its not a large leap to understand if someone has created a bad perception about themselves, which Wilson has, in a set environment the people in charge of said environment whether it be the NHL or a place of any type of work. You will get one of two things, if things be expedited make it rougher on you. That will be what will happen, and it will happen rapidly. Or if things going literally as slow as the possible can makes it rougher on you, everything and everyone will be dragging their feet. Agree or disagree about Wilson, his reputation, and these hits he as done. But he does have a reputation. And it is a negative one, with a negative perception. Which hurts business and where the NHL, again agree of disagree with it, is trying to move the game towards. So it is not very hard to look at this and understand everyone as the head of the NHL will drag their feet as much as they can till they absolutely have to act in order to try and punish Wilson to the maximum degree.

 

[4thTierSport]

The actual appeal process doesn’t start until the neutral arbitrator hears the case. I guess the NHLPA is only concerned about the money. I can not fathom otherwise how they would let the department’s higher up boss be the initial point of objection. Especially given the length of the last three appeals. There is no way they are handing out 20+ games without Bettmen being actively involved at some point.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

This is exactly like the Weidman appeal. NHL and NHLPA dragging their ass on the appeal because they probably both secretly agree on the length of the suspension. NHLPA just wants to get Wilson some of his money back by retroactively reducing the length of the suspension

 

[ThatGuy22]

The entire arbitration and appeals process is broken.

First, the NHL has complete license to take as long as it wants to schedule appeals. The CBA includes no provisions for due process, so the commissioner can take as long as he/she wants to schedule the appeal hearing, and then as long as he/she wants to issue a ruling after hearing the appeal. It's designed to stretch the appeal so long that the team loses the player regardless of what the final ruling happens to be, in the end. The player may get his money back, but the team still loses the player indefinitely.

As far as the stages go, the first appeal has to go to the commissioner... who has absolutely no reason to ever go against his own office's DoPS. So why have this appeal at all? The reason is clearly to stretch this out. The only thing that this stage of the appeals process does is delay the inevitable appeal to the impartial third-party arbitrator. Which brings us to...

The NHL exclusively selects and hires and fires arbitrators. The NHLPA has no input whatsoever. This is unlike, say, jury selection for a trial. Where's the incentives structure there for arbitrator to rule in favor of the player? Arbitrators make good money for little work, but the strings are there.

This guy in place at present is a dead man walking, as he's already ticked off the league for reducing Watson's suspension. The NHL is going to fire him. Why? Did he fail in his job performance? Well sort of, in the eyes of the NHL office. He had the audacity to rule against them.

Either have a genuine appeals process or don't have one at all. This fig leaf system is just going to piss people off. The NHLPA is going to need to address appeals next go round. Fortunately, it's not going to be long before those talks begin.

This bolded section of the rant is flat out wrong.

The arbitrator is jointly selected by the NHL and NHLPA, and can be fired by either the NHL or the NHLPA on September 1st of each season. So while the current arbitrator may be a "dead man walking", he will be the arbitrator for the rest of this season and next offseason.

All this information is freely available in the CBA, section 17.6.

 

[Sam Spade]

Not to mention, the hit happened in a pre-season game, against a rookie.

Irrelevant but Sundqvist is older than Wilson and is not a rookie at all.

 

[RiskyBryzness21]

Irrelevant but Sundqvist is older than Wilson and is not a rookie at all.

Just checked the dates, he's older only by 6 days, why not say that they're the same age? LOL. Anyway yes it's irrelevant

 

[Sam Spade]

Just checked the dates, he's older only by 6 days, why not say that the'ry the same age? LOL. Anyway yes it's irrelevant

Just saying he's not some kid who Wilson went out and "picked on". He has been trying to break into the NHL for the past four years so staying out of dangerous situations should be something he has ingrained in him by now.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I imagine Wilson holding a crayon with his whole fist, writing "NO SUSPEND ME JORJ" with a couple backward letters.

Sadly I can picture it
I'm sure they also brought out the puppets: "Now Tommy, you can hit people here and here. But don't stick out your elbow or jump. That will give other people boo-boo's and we don't want that, right?"

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I really believe that Wilson has the intent to injure when he hits people high. Too many recent examples to suggest otherwise.

If the suspension is reduced, it's no big deal. He'll get another one soon enough. Tom Wilson is on a course to get permanently banned from the NHL. Based on his recent past (last season and this pre season), he's going to make history.

 

[North Cole]

I would think it depends on the length of the suspension.

A week appeal is too long if you're suspended for 2 games, but not if your suspended for a month and a half.

 

[maacoshark]

Until all these threads about him and how he can't help but hit people in the head, I never realized that Tom Wilson was the only big and fast player in the NHL.

He isnt the only big and fast player. He does hit at a higher speed than anyone else in the league.

 

[Syrinx]

Just saying he's not some kid who Wilson went out and "picked on". He has been trying to break into the NHL for the past four years so staying out of dangerous situations should be something he has ingrained in him by now.

Is it always the victim's fault or only when it's Tom Wilson who destroys them?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

He isnt the only big and fast player. He does hit at a higher speed than anyone else in the league.

Have you been tracking this data?