Toews... Underrated ?

[BabyBennettov]

Just wanted to share my opinions on that one !

With all the Backstrom love out here, and the "Staal syndrome", I think of the top prospect is getting overlooked !

Jonathan Toews was a top-2 and contending for first overall at the beginning of the WJC ! Also remember that Toews is a year younger than Kessel ! The kid scored more goals than Phil (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not that good with NCAA stats), and his shot is one of the best in the draft (Phil's better, I didn't brought the goals thing for that), yet he is falling !

Why ? Maybe because Staal and Backstrom have played better... For me it's not the case... It's just that Toews has been labeled as the "best two-way" forward in the draft and generalli it's not an honor ! People will think you don't any offensive potential... Toews reminds me a lot of Eric Staal in his draft year...

With Toews you are getting at least Kirk Muller in his prime... At best, you get a Sakic or Yzerman-type of player ! If Toews is out of the top-3, I'll be laughing because it would mean that the Caps have a chance at him, and I'm scared to death of seeing a Ovechkin-Toews-Career minor league player line !

I haven't seen that much of Backstrom and Staal though... I'm just a big Toews believer ! I also think that Staal looks so weak (in terms of body musculation...) he could break one of his bones just by getting a pinch in the arm

Click to read more...

 

[FLYLine27*]

I'd agree Toews is underrated around here because other players get much more publicity and he is often overlooked. Whoever drafts him will draft a VERY smart and good player.

 

[fullmetalninja]

It certainly looks like the Hawks want him at #3, they aren't very good poker players (everyone in the world knew they were drafting Skille last year, and barker before that).

The only thing that may throw a wrench in it is if Staal somehow goes at #2, and the Hawks are left with the Kessel/Toews choice. Then I don't know what they will do (i'd personally go kessel, but the hawks really have said nothing but glowing things in regard to Toews).

We'll find out soon enough

-fullmetalninja

 

[mazmin]

Yeah it's gotta be the Hawks if he's around. They like college players, they like Winnipegger's, they need a first line center for the future. It's a perfect fit IMO.

 

[Beesfan]

At HF boards there is a merry-go-round of underated/overated prospects. Kessel, Toews, Staal, and Mueller have all had both tags within the last month, even though they stopped playing a while ago (except Kessel in the WC).

I have to believe NHL team scouts and GMs have a strong sense of each player and do not waver the same way we do around here. Toews looks like a very good player--better than a Jeff Carter/Ryan Getzlaf type prospect, which says a lot. For whatever reason, I think of Patrice Bergeron when I think of Toews.

One point that should be made is that Toews is not a year younger than Kessel, he is half a year younger. I don't see any indication that Toews is developmentally ahead of Kessel. Last year, when Kessel was a half-year younger than Toews, he did very well against NCAA competition and did better in the WJC than Toews did this year. No knock on Toews, but Kessel is the better offensive player.

 

[KaptainKourage*]

At HF boards there is a merry-go-round of underated/overated prospects. Kessel, Toews, Staal, and Mueller have all had both tags within the last month, even though they stopped playing a while ago (except Kessel in the WC).
.

Loll yeah i agree that strange and funny at the same time ..

 

[vintagecanuck]

One point that should be made is that Toews is not a year younger than Kessel, he is half a year younger. I don't see any indication that Toews is developmentally ahead of Kessel. Last year, when Kessel was a half-year younger than Toews, he did very well against NCAA competition and did better in the WJC than Toews did this year. No knock on Toews, but Kessel is the better offensive player.[/QUOTE]


So how is it that Kessel is a 1/2 year older than Toews when apparently the reverse was true a year ago. According to you. Last time I checked 16.5 +1 = 17.5 and 17.5 + 1 = 18.5***. But I COULD be wrong.

***I dont know their actual ages.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Yeah it's gotta be the Hawks if he's around. They like college players, they like Winnipegger's, they need a first line center for the future. It's a perfect fit IMO.

Yes, but this would involve the Hawks doing something smart.

 

[KH1]

Toews is underrated around here because people don't value defense in prospects. It's the same reason why people here would prefer Jiri Hudler, who is no safe bet at all to become an NHL contributor at all, over somebody like Kyle Chipchura who you know is going to be good for 15-20 goals and some great defensive play. All that matters is potential.

Thankfully NHL teams don't think the same way. Notice how of the top propsects after Johnson (Kessel, Mueller, Staal, etc.) the only person who you haven't seen fall in mock drafts at all is Toews. He'll be gone in the top 5.

 

[joe_shannon_1983*]

At HF boards there is a merry-go-round of underated/overated prospects. Kessel, Toews, Staal, and Mueller have all had both tags within the last month, even though they stopped playing a while ago (except Kessel in the WC).

That is very true.

Sometimes, guys get called over-rated for so long that they become under-rated. Then they are called under-rated for so long that they become over-rated again.

It is a vicious cycle.

 

[Ri hards]

So how is it that Kessel is a 1/2 year older than Toews when apparently the reverse was true a year ago. According to you. Last time I checked 16.5 +1 = 17.5 and 17.5 + 1 = 18.5***. But I COULD be wrong.

***I dont know their actual ages.

I think he means that last year, Kessel did better than Toews did this year, even though Kessel last year was half a year younger than Toews this year.

 

[jcpenny]

Toews=Patrice Bergeron

 

[Beesfan]

I think he means that last year, Kessel did better than Toews did this year, even though Kessel last year was half a year younger than Toews this year.

Thanks for handling that for me.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I WHOLEHEARTILY AGREE

His offensive upside is vastly underrated. Great moves, great skater w/ good acceleration, works well in traffic(in clutch and grab NCAA) very good shot, very good passer, all in NCAA with 22 and 23 year olds.

However i guess im biased since i played with him(when i was 5, he was 6) and he grew up playing only one year older than me at the same clubs.

 

[Le Golie]

If people think Toews is a *safe* player who will work hard on the second line and be a character player, then yes he is underrated.

His offensive skills are top notch. His hands are amazing and he will score and set up a ton over his career. His brains also make him a can't miss prospect. He is more like Eric Staal than Jordan is. Whoever gets Toews will be doing cartwheels.

 

[Boston]

I also think that Staal looks so weak (in terms of body musculation...) he could break one of his bones just by getting a pinch in the arm

Staal and Johnson were the best two at the physical testing in Toronto. Toews and Kessel were actually the ones having problems, as I believe they both threw up. But I do agree with you 100% that he is going to be a great NHLer and is very under rated right now.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Staal and Johnson were the best two at the physical testing in Toronto. Toews and Kessel were actually the ones having problems, as I believe they both threw up. But I do agree with you 100% that he is going to be a great NHLer and is very under rated right now.

I do not get why throwing up means they did bad. It just means they pushed themselves harder than anyone else, right to their peak in the VO2 max test. It is the results, and not whether they threw up or not that will make the difference, imo.

 

[Boston]

I do not get why throwing up means they did bad. It just means they pushed themselves harder than anyone else, right to their peak in the VO2 max test. It is the results, and not whether they threw up or not that will make the difference, imo.

I think throwing up means something..everybody else was pushing themselves to the max too..and these guys didn't do as good as the average prospect did on the VO2 test. The physical aspect doesn't mean much to the teams..not nearly as much as the interviews..and when he was interviewed by tsn that is what Toews said he wanted to do great on more than anything else.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

If people think Toews is a *safe* player who will work hard on the second line and be a character player, then yes he is underrated.

His offensive skills are top notch. His hands are amazing and he will score and set up a ton over his career. His brains also make him a can't miss prospect. He is more like Eric Staal than Jordan is. Whoever gets Toews will be doing cartwheels.

See, I like Toews character and what he brings to the table but I don't know why everyone thinks he's going to "score and set up a ton" over his career.

His offence was fairly good as a rookie in the NCAA but wasn't anything out of the world.

Against a guy like Kessel, Toews played in 2 more games and had 13 less points. That's a very big difference. I understand that Toews is younger, but I don't see where all of this offensive potential is comming from.

And keep in mind that Kessel had that production on the 2nd line without the teams TOP players.

 

[azsioux]

right after the wjt playing with canada he returned to UND and started playing center as he was a winger the 1st half. his numbers more than doubled so if he does come and god i hope he does to play 1 more with the sioux he will be a hobey baker contender for sure!!! big time prospect whos sees the ice as good as anyone out there and can play defense which seems to be overlooked a lot in rating players.

here are his numbers to back my statement up on playing center, just think if he played there a whole season..and he still had a hell of a freshman year

http://www.fightingsioux.com/sports/mhockey/displaystats.asp?PAGE_ID=163

(18 games)1st half at wing....7 goals,4 assists

missed 4 games due to unior tourney

(24 games counting all playoffs) 2nd half at center....15 goals, 13 assists (mvp of west regional) (3 goals,3 assists in 3 ncaa tourney games)

http://www.fightingsioux.com/sports/mhockey/displaystats.asp?PAGE_ID=161

 

[rikker]

IMO, this draft is not weak, as some proclaim. there is a great selection of prospects, maybe not home-runners like Ovechkin or Crosby, but good solid prospects.

i'd be happy if my team had a top 7 pick.

i'm fairly certain that Toews will go in the top 4. i'll be shocked as
h-e double toothpicks if he doesn't.

 

[Ban Hammered]

Against a guy like Kessel, Toews played in 2 more games and had 13 less points. That's a very big difference. I understand that Toews is younger, but I don't see where all of this offensive potential is comming from.

And keep in mind that Kessel had that production on the 2nd line without the teams TOP players.

Only thing I'll say to that is Kessel had over half his points and over half his goals on the PP when he DID play with Potulny and Irmen.

18 goals-10PP 51 points-27PP

Less than half of Toews points were on the PP

22 goals-9PP 39 points 15PP

 

[crosby_87]

Only thing I'll say to that is Kessel had over half his points and over half his goals on the PP when he DID play with Potulny and Irmen.

18 goals-10PP 51 points-27PP

Less than half of Toews points were on the PP

22 goals-9PP 39 points 15PP

So they each had 24 even strength points....interesting.......

 

[SOLR]

I see Toews much more as a 50 goal scorer in the nhl than a 100-110 pts Kessel might be, Toews is the guy to put it in the net. Hes pretty much like cheechoo, complete yet explosive when its time to finish a play. Toews playing with Sid...priceless.

 

[PuckFan01]

Pretty difficult to call a guy who is a sure fire top 5 pick as being underrated.

As for where Kessel got his points, he spent most of his year on a line with another freshman and a sophomore. If I recall correctly, Toews 5x5 play was paired up with players such as Drew Stafford on his regular line which is an advantage for him. He also plenty of PP time with players such as TJ Oshie and Stafford. If people are so caught up on who a player was on the ice with, you may as well point out that each player benefitted in their own way.