Player Discussion Todd McLellan

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Even post-Pronger I'd still take a healthy Pitkanen or Visnovsky over most of what the Oilers have at D right now.

Visser was so good. It's a shame what happened to him.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Huh, I remember thinking

"wow, after McDavid, Drai and RNH this team literally doesn't have a single forward that you can play at 3v3"

I wont say McLellan doesn't make mistakes. He does. All coaches do. But the biggest injustice last season wasn't McLellan's coaching. It was the managements utter incompetence to ice a competitive group of NHLers.

At least he learned very quickly not to play Lucic 3v3.

But you're right. Who would you put out there after those three? Strome? Khaira? Kassian? Woof.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

At least he learned very quickly not to play Lucic 3v3.

But you're right. Who would you put out there after those three? Strome? Khaira? Kassian? Woof.

Puljujarvi and Rieder.

 

[Spawn]

Puljujarvi and Rieder.

Rieder should be an option going forward. We didn't have him last year though. Puljujarvi from last year was barely an NHLer.

 

[nabob]

Huh, I remember thinking

"wow, after McDavid, Drai and RNH this team literally doesn't have a single forward that you can play at 3v3"

I wont say McLellan doesn't make mistakes. He does. All coaches do. But the biggest injustice last season wasn't McLellan's coaching. It was the managements utter incompetence to ice a competitive group of NHLers.

Yet the only players missing from the really good playoff team the year before weee two forwards who didn’t contribute a thing most of the season. You’re right the coaching was awesome, especially on special teams.

 

[nabob]

Puljujarvi and Rieder.

Did Puljujarvi even get to play a single second in OT all year? Pretty sure he was forced to take extra English lessons in the walkway to the dressing room as soon as regulation time ended.

 

[The Bored Man]

Even post-Pronger I'd still take a healthy Pitkanen or Visnovsky over most of what the Oilers have at D right now.

Visnovsky was a gem.

 

[ZJuice]

Coach at bench: alright men...steel yourselves...one more dance along the razors edge.....and know this day there is gl-*first shot against goes in*-ory...to be had-**** me"

Why did you remind me of this
We suck

 

[Spawn]

Yet the only players missing from the really good playoff team the year before weee two forwards who didn’t contribute a thing most of the season. You’re right the coaching was awesome, especially on special teams.

Huh, I remember thinking

"wow, after McDavid, Drai and RNH this team literally doesn't have a single forward that you can play at 3v3"

I wont say McLellan doesn't make mistakes. He does. All coaches do. But the biggest injustice last season wasn't McLellan's coaching. It was the managements utter incompetence to ice a competitive group of NHLers.

 

[nabob]

yeah it’s managements fault though. Same players, much worse result. The players were in place for the team to be much much better than it was.

 

[Soundwave]

and Lowe traded him for Erik Cole

lucky us

Yeah losing trades kinda hurts your team. Am I right? Or do we just chose to have a selective blind side to it depending on the face of the GM?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Yeah losing trades kinda hurts your team. Am I right? Or do we just chose to have a selective blind side to it depending on the face of the GM?

That depends....did the GM build a team that made the playoffs for the first time in a decade?
Cause winning hockey games is more important than “winning” trades

 

[Soundwave]

That depends....did the GM build a team that made the playoffs for the first time in a decade?
Cause winning hockey games is more important than “winning” trades

You can't have that both ways. Either losing trades brings bad consequences or it doesn't.

If we're gonna do the whole "well he built a winner in the past!", Lowe also built a team that went to game 7 of a SCF so he should be that logic also be given a pass.

Lowe made the playoffs 3 his first 5 seasons as GM too. We're not "winning hockey games" at an acceptable level today either.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

You can't have that both ways. Either losing trades brings bad consequences or it doesn't.

there's more to GMing the "winning and losing trades"...Garth Snow "won" a lot of trades which never resulted in his team winning actual hockey games

If we're gonna do the whole "well he built a winner in the past!", Lowe also built a team that went to game 7 of a SCF so he should be that logic also be given a pass.

difference is Chiarelli built winners that lasted...

Lowe made the playoffs 3 his first 5 seasons as GM too. We're not "winning hockey games" at an acceptable level today either.

Lowe made the playoffs on the back of Sather's teams and we instructed to simply not screw it up...but he did eventually with bad trades and worse drafts

 

[harpoon]

Lowe made the playoffs on the back of Sather's teams

And Chiarelli made the playoffs on the back of a lucky lotto ball drop.

 

[Soundwave]

there's more to GMing the "winning and losing trades"...Garth Snow "won" a lot of trades which never resulted in his team winning actual hockey games


difference is Chiarelli built winners that lasted...

Lowe made the playoffs on the back of Sather's teams and we instructed to simply not screw it up...but he did eventually with bad trades and worse drafts

Garth Snow didn't win many trades other than ripping off Chiarelli a few times.

Being able to trade competently IS a central part of being a GM, you can't have it both ways and rip Lowe for say the Pitkanen deal but give Chiarelli a pass, that's ridiculous.

Bad trades hurt a franchise there is no doubt. He didn't have to trade much in Boston because he inherited a stronger roster there, but there were big warning signs on that front later on in his tenure in Boston and he's flat out killed us not being able to trade here.

When he is forced to have to trade players as a key part of his roster build, he has shown himself to be very mediocre. Lowe was a better GM even though he had his warts too.

 

[rboomercat90]

Garth Snow didn't win many trades other than ripping off Chiarelli a few times.

Being able to trade competently IS a central part of being a GM, you can't have it both ways and rip Lowe for say the Pitkanen deal but give Chiarelli a pass, that's ridiculous.

Bad trades hurt a franchise there is no doubt. He didn't have to trade much in Boston because he inherited a stronger roster there, but there were big warning signs on that front later on in his tenure in Boston and he's flat out killed us not being able to trade here.

When he is forced to have to trade players as a key part of his roster build, he has shown himself to be very mediocre. Lowe was a better GM even though he had his warts too.

Chiarelli got one free pass and that was for one year. He earned that pass off of the 2017 team. If the team struggles again, I’ll be calling for his head just like you. Stop pretending Lowe didn’t get any free passes. He’s gotten more than just about anybody in hockey.

 

[MessierII]

He didn't have to trade much in Boston

Huh?

 

[MessierII]

He didn't have to trade much in Boston because he inherited a stronger roster there

I thought he inherited the greatest team ever here and that’s why we should’ve already won a cup? Can you be more of a hypocrite? I’m not sure it’s possible. Chiarelli sucks because he inherited the world when he came here is all I’ve heard from you for months.

 

[Soundwave]

I thought he inherited the greatest team ever here and that’s why we should’ve already won a cup? Can you be more of a hypocrite? I’m not sure it’s possible. Chiarelli sucks because he inherited the world when he came here is all I’ve heard from you for months.

He inherited a team with good high end here that needed work in support areas, the high end of this team is worse today than it was 3 years ago and the so-called "support players" still suck donkey balls. If McDavid misses even 5-8 games that could literally sink any chance of a playoff berth.

He blew three big trades in three straight summers.

He has had opportunities that he missed that could have moved us into territory similar to where Toronto and Winnipeg are at, but of course he's always given a pass by his defence force.

Either bad trades hurt your team or they don't. You can't selectively have blinders on to it just because you like one person (Chiarelli) and dislike another (Lowe).

Bad trading has been a central part of why the Oilers have sucked for a decade. Pitkanen for Cole is a bad trade that hurt us (and that's on Lowe). Chiarelli has made three trades in three summers that are equally as bad as that or worse, to act like it has no impact is ridiculous.

To say stuff like Can't Have Tkachev says like "har har, trading is no big deal, it's not a big part of being a GM". Are you kidding me? It IS like one of the 3 central parts of being a good GM. If you can't do that well you are by default a large liability to your franchise.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

And Chiarelli made the playoffs on the back of a lucky lotto ball drop.

That's not quite true. Like them or love them he brought in prior to that postseason: Talbot, Larsson, Kassian, Maroon, Lucic, Russell, Sekera, Caggiula, and Benning.

Naturally McDavid was the biggest acquisition but it's not like you can trade for guys like him.

 

[Soundwave]

That's not quite true. Like them or love them he brought in prior to that postseason: Talbot, Larsson, Kassian, Maroon, Lucic, Russell, Sekera, Caggiula, and Benning.

Naturally McDavid was the biggest acquisition but it's not like you can trade for guys like him.

And Kevin Lowe added in Pronger, Roloson, Hemsky, Stoll, Spacek, Peca, Torres, Staois, Samsonov over time to build a Cup contender in his 5th season. His resume of player acquisition is far more impressive.

The original comment was that Lowe just inherited that team so it was no big deal that they had some success in his early tenure (more than what Chiarelli has managed here) ... well that's a two way street too then.

Lowe made a lot of decent moves in his early years too, quite frankly the players list that he brought in, traded for, or drafted in his first 5 years as GM thus far shames Chiarelli's list and he also faced much larger challenges like having to trade away the best player on the team in Weight after only 1 year and a limited budget.

And he's still a poor GM. Just not as poor as the current one we have.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

And Kevin Lowe brought in Pronger, Roloson, Hemsky, Stoll, Spacek, Peca, Torres, Samsonov over the years too to build a Cup contender in his 5th season. His resume of player acquisition is far more impressive.

The original comment was that Lowe just inherited that team so it was no big deal that they had some success in his early tenure (more than what Chiarelli has managed here) ... well that's a two way street too then.

Lowe made a lot of decent moves in his early years too, quite frankly the players list that he brought in, traded for, or drafted in his first 5 years as GM thus far shames Chiarelli's list.

The Pronger trade was not something that would've been possible prior to the new CBA and we were straight up lucky. Hemsky and Stoll were drafted, we paid a dear price for Roli (1st rounder vs. what we paid for Talbot) Spacek and Samsonov were rentals only.

Pronger who was better than Hall ever has been was traded for a less than great return and we then whittled down those assets over time.

It's also easy to point to guys like Stoll and Hemsky when it's too early to say what we have in Puljujarvi, Yamamoto and Bouchard. We are a few young players stepping up from being a very good team, things are far from as doom and gloom as you have been preaching here for months.

 

[Soundwave]

The Pronger trade was not something that would've been possible prior to the new CBA and we were straight up lucky. Hemsky and Stoll were drafted, we paid a dear price for Roli (1st rounder vs. what we paid for Talbot) Spacek and Samsonov were rentals only.

Pronger who was better than Hall ever has been was traded for a less than great return and we then whittled down those assets over time.

It's also easy to point to guys like Stoll and Hemsky when it's too early to say what we have in Puljujarvi, Yamamoto and Bouchard. We are a few young players stepping up from being a very good team, things are far from as doom and gloom as you have been preaching here for months.

The Pronger trade is an example of a GM taking advantage of an good situation ... how many times has Chiarelli done that for us in a major way?

A mid/low 1st for Roloson was a bargain considering he brought us to the SCF.

Hemsky and Stoll were drafted, which is something Lowe is never given credit for (or very little for), there's a high probability neither Puljujarvi or Yamamoto are ever as good as Hemsky.

But of course the excuses are already out on that front too, Puljujarvi can't be Chia's fault because he was the consensus pick at 4. So he'll be given a pass by some for that no matter what. He can blow the 2015 pick that could have been Barzal/Connor/Boeser and the 2016 pick that could have been Sergachev or Tkachuk and it's no big deal, or so some would like to say.

The reality is you can't keep missing on opportunities like this and then wonder "gee, why are we a bad team?". Because you having f***ing terrible management, you deserve to be bad. Puljujarvi better damn well pan out.

 

[Cypress]

Did Puljujarvi even get to play a single second in OT all year? Pretty sure he was forced to take extra English lessons in the walkway to the dressing room as soon as regulation time ended.

Nah, they wouldn't do that to him... He's expected to learn English on his own time.