Confirmed with Link: Tobias Rieder Re-signed (2 Years - 2.225AAV)

AZviaNJ

Setbacks, no Defeats
Mar 31, 2011
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Good deal. I imagine this ends the possibility of a trial run for Crouse.

Domi Hanzal Vrbata
McGinn Strome Duclair
Reider Dvorak Doan
Nook Richardson White

Not seeing a space for Dauphin.
13th forward spot for Flipper....or Richardson goes to the 3rd line, Dauphin 4th line and Dvo goes to Tucson.
 

TheLegend

Megathread Gadfly
Aug 30, 2009
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Agents follow the marching orders given to them by the player.

Meh.... you just like being a grump. It's the Tippettesque thing to do. :laugh:

Looking at the salary for each year it seems like Rieder conceded the pay level for year one, while Chayka conceded year two.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
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Agents follow the marching orders given to them by the player.

I disagree. You hire an agent to get you the best deal possible. Most times players will not get involved, but the player will change agents if they were not happy with the results.
 
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CBJ goalie

Registered User
May 19, 2005
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Ok, I read somewhere on Forum40 that someone called this signing happening by Wednesday!!!?
Good call!!
Glad he's back in the fold. There's lots of competition right now, it could've killed his career not to take this contract.
 

Sinurgy

Approaching infinity
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Feb 8, 2004
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Glad that's over, now hopefully Rieder will go earn himself a fat raise in a couple of years!
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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Looking at the salary for each year it seems like Rieder conceded the pay level for year one, while Chayka conceded year two.

Chayka didn't concede anything, he'd probably prefer to defer some salary to the 2nd year if anything. Toby and his agent took a big L.

Throughout negotiations with Rieder’s agent Darren Ferris, Chayka held firm to a dollar value he believed Rieder was worth on a bridge deal. There were discussions of a longer-term deal, and Chayka was willing to budge on those for the opportunity to lock Rieder up for more years, but the Coyotes believed a two-year deal was worth an average annual value in the neighborhood of $2.2 million to $2.3 million. That is exactly what they paid Rieder when he agreed to a two-year, $4.45 million contract Monday night that he signed electronically on his phone.

The rhetoric from Rieder’s camp ramped up considerably over the past month while the compensation requests kept falling. That was Ferris’s job: to strike the best deal possible for his client and to use whatever leverage he had at his disposal to strike that deal. There was talk of a trade and there were threats of two KHL offers that ultimately rang hollow when Rieder addressed them on Tuesday.

http://arizonasports.com/story/853046/john-chayka-displaying-chops-coyotes-gm/
 

_Del_

Registered User
Jul 4, 2003
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As long as they're prepared for when the shoe's on the other foot. Glad he signed a deal.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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That's Craig Morgan speaking. Remember he's the one who buried up the Coyotes' keester so far that everything he says is "Coyotes Cool". :sarcasm:

Did you stop and think about your argument? If what Morgan said isn't true, that means the Coyotes offered less (very unlikely) or Toby Rieder held out for nothing because he wanted this money all along. Pick one. Neither is a good argument.

Craig Morgan is up ownerships ass and apologizes for them at every turn, but there's no reason to believe his account here is suspect.
 

TheLegend

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Aug 30, 2009
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Did you stop and think about your argument? If what Morgan said isn't true, that means the Coyotes offered less (very unlikely) or Toby Rieder held out for nothing because he wanted this money all along. Pick one. Neither is a good argument.

Craig Morgan is up ownerships ass and apologizes for them at every turn, but there's no reason to believe his account here is suspect.

The point was you used what you consider a 100% biased source as the basis for your argument.

Rieder's agent wanted $5 million. Or $2.5 per year.

Chayka originally wanted to pay closer to $2 million per.

In the end he got $2 and $2.4. I said it LOOKED as if concessions were made from each side for each year.

If you want to spin it in "Chayka's a genius" or "Rieder and his agent are idiots" direction so be it. But I can apply that same data and call it something else.
 

cobra427

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May 6, 2012
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The point was you used what you consider a 100% biased source as the basis for your argument.

Rieder's agent wanted $5 million. Or $2.5 per year.

Chayka originally wanted to pay closer to $2 million per.

In the end he got $2 and $2.4. I said it LOOKED as if concessions were made from each side for each year.

If you want to spin it in "Chayka's a genius" or "Rieder and his agent are idiots" direction so be it. But I can apply that same data and call it something else.

Pretty much agree. We know his agent publicly said 2.5 mill, Coyotes offered 2, they compromised in the middle, which is fair value. His agent likely told Reider, lets wait it out and see if we can squeeze a few 100k extra out of Chayka. In the mean time, you play in the world cup and be in shape. Even if you miss a little camp, you are still ready for the season. We have nothing to lose by being patient". Maybe it worked in a way as he got Toby more than 2 mill per from the Chayka. There was really no harm to either side in retrospect. Smart agent, but smart Chayka too.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
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The point was you used what you consider a 100% biased source as the basis for your argument.

Rieder's agent wanted $5 million. Or $2.5 per year.

Chayka originally wanted to pay closer to $2 million per.

In the end he got $2 and $2.4. I said it LOOKED as if concessions were made from each side for each year.

If you want to spin it in "Chayka's a genius" or "Rieder and his agent are idiots" direction so be it. But I can apply that same data and call it something else.

Pretty much agree. We know his agent publicly said 2.5 mill, Coyotes offered 2, they compromised in the middle, which is fair value. His agent likely told Reider, lets wait it out and see if we can squeeze a few 100k extra out of Chayka. In the mean time, you play in the world cup and be in shape. Even if you miss a little camp, you are still ready for the season. We have nothing to lose by being patient". Maybe it worked in a way as he got Toby more than 2 mill per from the Chayka. There was really no harm to either side in retrospect. Smart agent, but smart Chayka too.

We are all just speculating of course, but I read some where that the Coyotes wanted to be closer to " 2mill/y in the 2.2-2.3 mill/year range". As far as I can tell the Coyotes did not budge at all. The agent bluffed and bluffed and bluffed, but Chayka held firm. The agent had no leverage so he couldn't win in this case, it was a easy win for JC.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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The point was you used what you consider a 100% biased source as the basis for your argument.

Rieder's agent wanted $5 million. Or $2.5 per year.

Chayka originally wanted to pay closer to $2 million per.

In the end he got $2 and $2.4. I said it LOOKED as if concessions were made from each side for each year.

If you want to spin it in "Chayka's a genius" or "Rieder and his agent are idiots" direction so be it. But I can apply that same data and call it something else.

The Coyotes didn't ever budge or change their offer. Ridier's initial ask was closer to Kadri/Frolik money, possibly more.

You made an incorrect comment "It's the agent, not Rieder", followed by a ****** comment "haha, you used Morgan! That guy you hate!" and got called out on both. I consider Morgan biased but numbers are not biased, what Rieder signed for is what he signed for. I don't think you even realize you're actually arguing that Toby Rider instructed his agent to hold out, threaten the KHL, and demand a trade over 100k. Really stop and think about the position you are taking.

This is from July:

“You have a whole new group there now so maybe it’s going to take some time but we’re not even close to where we need to be,†he said of talks with the Coyotes’ restructured hockey operations department. “I’m not sure how things are structured with Arizona, what it’s going to take to get a deal or who’s giving permission, but they seem to be saying they’ll hold tight on their current offer.â€

Ferris said the Coyotes are offering something above the qualifying offer and they have been open to both long-term and short-term contracts, but “nothing close†to what he feels his client is worth. The 23-year-old German, who will play for Team Europe at the upcoming World Cup of Hockey, set career highs for goals (14) and assists (23) while averaging 17:18 of ice time in 82 games last season.
http://arizonasports.com/story/737080/coyotes-tobias-rieders-agent-sides-not-close-contract-talks/

That is straight from the agent, no Morgan narrative at all.

Now, how close is "nothing close"? Not very close:

Ferris may have shed some light on Rieder’s decision to change agents when he suggested to Arizona Sports on July 11 that Toronto’s Nazem Kadri (now in a six-year, $4.5 million AAV) is a comparable deal when examining Rieder’s worth. A league source told Arizona Sports that Ferris initially asked for more than Kadri’s average annual value.

“Look at his production and you can see it’s comparable; the numbers are the same,†Ferris said of Rieder and Kadri.

Ferris also suggested that Jamie McGinn’s recent, three-year, $10 million deal with the Coyotes was a baseline for negotiations, arguing that Rieder’s analytics are better than McGinn’s

It’s difficult to say where negotiations are right now, but it is believed Rieder’s camp has since come down on its request. It is also believed that the Coyotes are offering more per season than Namestnikov earned, though it is unlikely they would go much above $2.2 or 2.3 million per season on a two-year deal, and not much above $2.5 million on a three-year deal.
http://arizonasports.com/story/745087/inside-protracted-contract-talks-coyotes-wing-tobias-rieder/

A Kadri comparison straight from the agent. Again, no narrative from Morgan.

So, by now, if you're actually following along it's clear that:
  1. The Coyotes never moved from their offer
  2. Rieder's initial ask was insultingly high
  3. After every card played, the Coyotes still didn't move
  4. The 2.5 million offer from Rieder's camp was a mea culpa meant to save face for the agent, who at this point had nothing to show for the tantrum thrown
  5. Chayka refused to move and made Ferris kiss the ring

Chayka isn't a genius for this, just someone that was aware Rieder had no leverage and was being taken for a ride by his agent. He held his line. Ferris is definitely an idiot that was counting on Chayka being weak. Oops.
 

TheLegend

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The Coyotes didn't ever budge or change their offer. Ridier's initial ask was closer to Kadri/Frolik money, possibly more.

You made an incorrect comment "It's the agent, not Rieder", followed by a ****** comment "haha, you used Morgan! That guy you hate!" and got called out on both. I consider Morgan biased but numbers are not biased, what Rieder signed for is what he signed for. I don't think you even realize you're actually arguing that Toby Rider instructed his agent to hold out, threaten the KHL, and demand a trade over 100k. Really stop and think about the position you are taking.

This is from July:


http://arizonasports.com/story/737080/coyotes-tobias-rieders-agent-sides-not-close-contract-talks/

That is straight from the agent, no Morgan narrative at all.

Now, how close is "nothing close"? Not very close:






http://arizonasports.com/story/745087/inside-protracted-contract-talks-coyotes-wing-tobias-rieder/

A Kadri comparison straight from the agent. Again, no narrative from Morgan.

So, by now, if you're actually following along it's clear that:
  1. The Coyotes never moved from their offer
  2. Rieder's initial ask was insultingly high
  3. After every card played, the Coyotes still didn't move
  4. The 2.5 million offer from Rieder's camp was a mea culpa meant to save face for the agent, who at this point had nothing to show for the tantrum thrown
  5. Chayka refused to move and made Ferris kiss the ring

Chayka isn't a genius for this, just someone that was aware Rieder had no leverage and was being taken for a ride by his agent. He held his line. Ferris is definitely an idiot that was counting on Chayka being weak. Oops.

Well it's interesting to see you went through all this trouble. :sarcasm:

As for what I am arguing..... neither you or I know what exactly Rieder instructed his agent to do so I have to call you out for trying to put words in my mouth that simply aren't there. You're making a huge assumption in that area. And like I said earlier..... it APPEARED to come out looking like it did. If that bent the vision of how things went in your mind then so be it.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
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As for what I am arguing..... neither you or I know what exactly Rieder instructed his agent to do so I have to call you out for trying to put words in my mouth that simply aren't there. You're making a huge assumption in that area.

In all fairness it was the agent who threw the tantrum.

I assume that like all professionals, the agent does what the client tells them to do. They wouldn't be in business long if that wasn't the case. I'm also an adult, so I acknowledge that how the agent acts is a reflection on Rieder. By employing this agent and his methods, Rieder approves of them tacitly or explicitly, so he is ultimately responsible for the methods used.

The end result is all that matters. Rieder was forced to take the Coyotes offer which had never changed. Lesson learned.
 

Ebb

the nondescript
Dec 22, 2015
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My guess is that the sticking point was term. We wanted to sign him longer and at market value, but they wanted more money and shorter term. So while Chayka didn't budge much, I'm guessing he would have liked to sign Rieder for a longer term.
 

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