TML Souring on Babcock?

marcmadsen

Registered User
Sep 29, 2016
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Thought I'd share an article some of you may not have seen. Looks like the Toronto media/fans are souring a bit on Babcock. I thought the article was funny because those complaints are all too familiar to most of us DRW fans.

I think a lot of us felt that with all the great rosters from ~'07-'12 the DRWs could have won more. Crazy to think Babcock hasn't been deep in the playoffs in a decade
 

Snuggs

Registered User
Jun 24, 2018
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I am a massive Bruins fan for one Round lol... I want to see them suffer again after what people thought was going to be a Super Team before the year

Yeah, their fans ruin most of it. It'll disgustingly bring me so much happiness to watch them lose after getting essentially everything they've wanted for 2-4 years now.(Outside the Stanley Cup)
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
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maybe one of these days people will stop putting those who have success with team canada on a pedastal

not to say that Babcock isn't/hasn't been a good coach but he's always been a guy with an outsized reputation,it doesn't take a genius to win with that kind of talent
 

hyduK

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Feb 21, 2009
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Babcock might just not be the guy for the way that roster is constructed honestly.

I feel like at this point in his career he's more suited to making a mediocre team perform great as opposed to making a great team elite. His style and focus on responsible "playing the right way" can get a lot out of a little but seems to hold back truly skilled teams. I know Matthews TOI has been particularly controversial and you could argue that rolling 4 lines might not be the best way to use that roster filled with young offensive talents. Especially when those guys aren't exactly selke caliber forwards...he certainly stifled the potential offense of a Datsyuk/Zetterberg in his years here but at the same time them being so good in their own zone lent some merit to his strategies.

I still think his most impressive job here was taking the average on paper 2012/13 team to game 7 of the second round. But like you mentioned in the OP, winning just one cup with the rosters we had was somewhat disappointing. Most halfway decent NHL coaches probably could have gotten a similar result with a core of Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Lidstrom. To be fair we also got to game 7 of another SCF.
 

hyduK

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Feb 21, 2009
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Yeah, their fans ruin most of it. It'll disgustingly bring me so much happiness to watch them lose after getting essentially everything they've wanted for 2-4 years now.(Outside the Stanley Cup)
As a Detroit fan living in Toronto with mostly Leaf fans as friends, my one hope is that we lap them with the rebuild. Would be amazing to see them lose in round 1 this year and then see Detroit upset them in Round 1 in a year or two.
 

hyduK

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Feb 21, 2009
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maybe one of these days people will stop putting those who have success with team canada on a pedastal

not to say that Babcock isn't/hasn't been a good coach but he's always been a guy with an outsized reputation,it doesn't take a genius to win with that kind of talent
I'd go as far as saying that the 2014 run was underwhelming from a coaching standpoint. Possibly the most talented team assembled in the modern era and they were winning games against teams like Latvia by scores of 2-1. A team with that offensive power should have been getting blowouts.
 

Snuggs

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Jun 24, 2018
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To be a "Little Fair" to Babcock... Yes he only won, one cup, but went to, 3 total. One with the Ducks(lost in 7), and lost the other with the Wings in a game 7 OT to the Penguins who might have had the 2 best players in hockey at the time.

I really don't think it's a blackmark against him but to each there own. It'll get sticky though if he can't get the team in TORONTO to perform though. The trend will be happening for about 10 years now...( 2010- 2019) Sometimes... good coaches styles or management grow out of the game/players around them.
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
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As a Detroit fan living in Toronto with mostly Leaf fans as friends, my one hope is that we lap them with the rebuild. Would be amazing to see them lose in round 1 this year and then see Detroit upset them in Round 1 in a year or two.

They would really need to screw the pooch hard for this to happen. If Detroit makes the playoffs in two years that would be a major step, and pretty unlikely.
 

RedWingsfan55

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Jan 5, 2015
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Babcock wins with superstar teams. I wouldn't say the TML are there yet. Bad defense, decent goaltending


They should've got Trotz, the best coach in hockey.
 
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hyduK

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Feb 21, 2009
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They would really need to screw the pooch hard for this to happen. If Detroit makes the playoffs in two years that would be a major step, and pretty unlikely.
Well, keyword hope for sure haha.

But tbh I could see a world where Toronto gets outed in the first round a couple more times still. The Atlantic is a tough division and if they don't get past Boston this year, they might be in even tougher next year since they'll almost certainly be worse on paper with a cap crunch coming up. They're going to be losing some depth on the forward side for sure, and potentially on defense depending on how their young guys handle the jump.

If things go somewhat favourably I feel like we could be sneaking into a wildcard spot by the 20/21 season, and that gives us potential to draw the Leafs. Wouldn't be the first time a Babcock team has been upset in the playoffs.

Again, just for emphasis...I don't think this is in any way likely lol.
 

marcmadsen

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Sep 29, 2016
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As a Detroit fan living in Toronto with mostly Leaf fans as friends, my one hope is that we lap them with the rebuild. Would be amazing to see them lose in round 1 this year and then see Detroit upset them in Round 1 in a year or two.

I'm also a DRW fans living in Toronto, have been my whole life. Toronto fans, to me, tend to be some of the most uninformed bandwagoners. I don't mean to generalize, but that's just the experience I've had. Growing up I used to absolutely love to see the Leafs lose. As I've aged that has faded mostly because they have had some players that I've liked on an individual basis. But I won't lie, the hoopla around the Babcock signing was annoying. So, this is a bit hard not to enjoy if even just a little bit
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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Pretty important playoffs for Leafs no doubt. Another 1st round loss would sting badly and hopefully bruise the egos of Leafs fans. And right now it looks pretty likely to happen.

I don't think Babcock is the problem there though. They're a young team, and frankly their D+goaltending are not great. It also remains to be seen if they have enough players with "intangibles" when it comes down to the wire in playoff hockey. Imagine if they had drafted Larkin instead of Nylander...
 

hyduK

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Feb 21, 2009
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I'm also a DRW fans living in Toronto, have been my whole life. Toronto fans, to me, tend to be some of the most uninformed bandwagoners. I don't mean to generalize, but that's just the experience I've had. Growing up I used to absolutely love to see the Leafs lose. As I've aged that has faded mostly because they have had some players that I've liked on an individual basis. But I won't lie, the hoopla around the Babcock signing was annoying. So, this is a bit hard not to enjoy if even just a little bit
Yeah, this is easily the hardest iteration of the leafs for me to hate. Matthews, Marner, Reilly, etc. All very likeable players.
 
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PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
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Any of the fans here living in Ontario will be able to vouch for me when I say they have been disappointed with him for a while now

to say they've soured "a bit" is underselling it, most casual fans think he's an idiot at this point
 

Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
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The amount of minutes he underplays Matthews is absurd. He's also still obsessed with having depth players on the top two lines acting as piano pullers.
 

marcmadsen

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Sep 29, 2016
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Any of the fans here living in Ontario will be able to vouch for me when I say they have been disappointed with him for a while now

to say they've soured "a bit" is underselling it, most casual fans think he's an idiot at this point

I don't know that people think he's an idiot. In my opinion, that's as big an oversell as 'soured' is an undersell. I think people think he's overrated, stubborn, and outdated. It's all semantics though, I think we all agree he is not the greatest coach ever to have walked this earth like he is sometimes promoted as. Either way, the whole point of the thread was for us all, as DRW fans, to relish in the frustration we used to have over Babcock now being experienced by Leaf fans. When your team is as bad as the Wings, these are the little things that make our situation slightly more tolerable
 
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PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
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I don't know that people think he's an idiot. In my opinion, that's as big an oversell as 'soured' is an undersell. I think people think he's overrated, stubborn, and outdated. It's all semantics though, I think we all agree he is not the greatest coach ever to have walked this earth like he is sometimes promoted as. Either way, the whole point of the thread was for us all, as DRW fans, to relish in the frustration we used to have over Babcock now being experienced by Leaf fans. When your team is as bad as the Wings, these are the little things that make our situation slightly more tolerable

I'm just going based on what I read on this site and what my friends at work/ lacrosse say to me - they really do think he is simple, stubborn, stupid

Just like we thought a few years ago when Abdelkader and Cleary were getting top 6 assignments every night! :laugh:
 

marcmadsen

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Sep 29, 2016
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I'm just going based on what I read on this site and what my friends at work/ lacrosse say to me - they really do think he is simple, stubborn, stupid

Just like we thought a few years ago when Abdelkader and Cleary were getting top 6 assignments every night! :laugh:

ha yeah, fair enough. I think there is little doubt the entire world thinks he is stubborn. Plus, the Stephen Weiss signing was pretty stupid....you just might be convincing me actually ha
 
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PullHard

Jul 18, 2007
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I actually really think highly of him, he is for sure a top 5 coach of his era. The people claiming "best" were always wrong, even when that might have been us, but he has always been "one of the best" IMO.

I don't miss watching our teams when the roster had a regular or less amount of talent, though. When we were stacked - yeah it was fun, disciplined, balanced hockey.

When we were shallow it was so hard to watch and he will always have an affinity for the Hyman's, Cleary's, Abdelkader's, etc. of the world.
 

SuperScript29

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Nov 17, 2017
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It also remains to be seen if they have enough players with "intangibles" when it comes down to the wire in playoff hockey. Imagine if they had drafted Larkin instead of Nylander...

To be fair, we don't know what Larkin is made of in the playoffs either.
 

Dotter

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Jul 2, 2014
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I was disappointed when he left us, felt betrayed. And Blashill's 1st season was underwhelming but for the roster he has now and the speed he can utilize, Blashill hockey is soooo much funner to watch than Backbock.

I really think Blashill is proving to be a pretty underrated coach and I suspect in about 2 or 3 more years, people will really be surprised with delight.
 
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marcmadsen

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Sep 29, 2016
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I actually really think highly of him, he is for sure a top 5 coach of his era. The people claiming "best" were always wrong, even when that might have been us, but he has always been "one of the best" IMO.

I don't miss watching our teams when the roster had a regular or less amount of talent, though. When we were stacked - yeah it was fun, disciplined, balanced hockey.

When we were shallow it was so hard to watch and he will always have an affinity for the Hyman's, Cleary's, Abdelkader's, etc. of the world.

Yeah, it was just overblown. He's a good coach but just like everyone else, he has his flaws. But he definitely isn't head and shoulders above all other coaches
 
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The Wizard of Oz

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Feb 24, 2013
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We thought they could do more? 06 was obviously the big wasted opportunity although who knows if Legace was a cup winning goaltender. I liked him but he clearly didn’t prove capable in his small sample size. 07 we were hit with injuries in our defense it happens. 09 Datsyuk was battling injuries all postseason and Lidstrom got speared in the groin right before the Finals. I don’t remember thinking Babcock was a problem here our team just couldn’t get it done (or stay healthy). Then the unfortunate in hindsight Franzen signing happened and we were left without a go to goal scorer since by this time Z’s elite scoring dried up. Day to day I blamed the typical scapegoats like the rest of us (Howard, Sammy, Lilja, etc) but big picture it was Holland’s standing pat and signing glue guys that crippled our window. I question this teams training staff more than anything. How many man games lost and nagging injuries did our stars deal with from 07 till 2014?
 

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