Tmac vs Hitch (what is Hitch doing different than Tmac)

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
32,644
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The coaching being bad does not mean the roster isn't abysmal.

How does a HC successfully coach a roster thats abysmal? At some point you have to consider that a coach simply cant spin horse s*** into gold.
 

Del Preston

Registered User
Mar 8, 2013
63,171
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How does a HC successfully coach a roster thats abysmal? At some point you have to consider that a coach simply cant spin horse s*** into gold.
The roster sucks, I'm not gonna say otherwise.

The coaching hasn't been great here for years, though. McLellan was incredibly stubborn and it cost him his job. Hitchcock's style does not mesh with how the game is played today. Both have been limited by the roster but some of the decision-making on the bench has been terrible and set the team up to fail.
 
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guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
32,644
12,154
The roster sucks, I'm not gonna say otherwise.

The coaching hasn't been great here for years, though. McLellan was incredibly stubborn and it cost him his job. Hitchcock's style does not mesh with how the game is played today. Both have been limited by the roster but some of the decision making on the bench has been terrible and set the team up to fail.

I think TMac was completely handcuffed by this roster. Hitch is running into the same issue.
There are just so many dumb players on this team that its impossible to put together 4 lines and 3 pairings that can consistently execute a system.

I was convinced before they fired TMac that this roster is too flawed to expect anything other than inconsistency.
Doesn't matter who the coach is IMO.
 

Todd from Leduc

Connor “The Next Great One” McDavid
Nov 15, 2017
1,411
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Looks like they are doing what I said, pulling back Hitch and elevating Gullutsan to try to get the 10 game new coach bump.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
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'member when Hitch knew what was wrong and was going to fix it?
lmao

Diagnostically its one thing to determine what is wrong. Its often a lot easier to do that. To FIX the problem is a whole other matter and much more difficult and sometimes not possible.


How do you construct workable toi in a lineup and roster where up to 10 of the players are junk?

Recently theres been debates about who you put out on 3 on 3 for instance. Until people started doing the mental exercise it wasn't realized that until Klef came back there was one suitable D to put out there in OT. Just one. There are two forwards on this club that are good at 3 on 3. Just two.

Basically if we don't score on the first or 2nd shift we're losing. Very rarely does this club even get to a shootout.

A game like the Chicago one should exemplify how many more good players the Hawks have in the lineup than we do.

The attrition has even been pronounced this season. Suddenly we don't even have STrome and Caggiulia who were two of our better wingers as recently as last season. WE have only 4 players on this team with double digit goals and 1 of those is very uncharacteristic. We have a ton of players who you can't even realistically expect production from.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
Oct 8, 2017
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Hitch should step down and say that right now he isn't geared up for the stretch drive because he was in retirement not all that long ago. I'm not saying that he's the problem but he's not part of the solution either.

People are suggesting he was behind the Cagg trade. I really doubt it. I think Chia was screwing us over intently getting Manning. Certainly its Chias fault we have no wingers. Sure Hitch makes mistakes in player usage, every coach does. The trouble on this team and lineup is every mistake is magnified because the team is so bad there is never a margin for mistakes. Make mistakes and we lose. I don't like Hitch's treatment of rattie, Pulju, and I think they could be used more, but on the other hand he's identified that players like Spooner and Yama were not capable here. Simply not adding anything. He also identified Gryba as a non starter and has now identified Manning can't be in the lineup. But any game he's putting some dolt in the lineup like Colby Cave or Malone because he has no roster to work with essentially.

Hitch could do everything right and this club would miss the playoffs.
 

Chabot84

Registered User
Oct 24, 2009
1,841
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The last time Chicago was here, Todd was the coach and we dominated them, shut them out 4-0. A couple months later, under a Htich, they're the ones who dominate and level us 6-2
Ever since he took over, we have been getting outshot, outchanced and outclassed almost every single game. The 9-2-2 start was primarily on Mikko Koskinen playing like a God, which has now come back down to earth; couple with the 'new coach' effect, which has died weeks ago.

I was one of the guys calling for Todd's head, but honestly, if he was still here, we're likely in a wildcard position. It almost seems that they should've just let Gulutzan take over. Hitch's style of hockey is outdated, and is not at all suited for this roster.

When you call out your team, your goalie, almost every single post game interview, of course their belief in you has dwindled. We all know the problems with the roster, but as the head coach, your job is to stick up for the players in that room, motivate them, and instill a strong belief system. Taking out Connor, Leon and Nuge in a practice, and making the rest of team bag skate as punishment, destroys the culture and team mentality. I bet those 3 hated that they had to leave their teammates behind.

They were right: The worst thing the Oilers could do is fire Todd McLellan - Sportsnet.ca

The big 3 should have went back on the ice and bag skated with the team in defiance.
 
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FlameChampion

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Jul 13, 2011
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Look at their faces and you can tell exactly what they are thinking:

K Gretzky - Holy Great Jesus ****in Hell did Chiarelli **** us over. This teams ****.

Hitch - Why the bloody **** did I say yes to coaching this ****.

Howson - Prime Nikitin would be the answer here. Damn.

To be honest there has been some rumours that K.Gretzky, Hitchcock etc have had some influence on some of the previous trades. Who knows for sure. I dont know how anyone can feel comfortable/confident with the organization making decisions regarding the pro scouting aspect of it. The team obviously has no idea what kind of players they should be targeting. I think thats pretty obvious at this point. It has been a complete failure.
 
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joestevens29

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Apr 30, 2009
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Maybe Hitch isn't the right guy, but the players need to be better themselves.

Losing games because we lack talent is one thing. Losing games because of a lack of effort and playing a full 60 minutes is just not acceptable.

Gregor's quote this morning is bang on to what I'm thinking of this team. The 20 games he references goes back to December 16th, we are 5-13-2

The group isn’t that skilled, no question, so no coach will magically cure that, but I also don’t believe they should only be winning five out of 20 games.
 
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FlameChampion

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Jul 13, 2011
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Maybe Hitch isn't the right guy, but the players need to be better themselves.

Losing games because we lack talent is one thing. Losing games because of a lack of effort and playing a full 60 minutes is just not acceptable.

Gregor's quote this morning is bang on to what I'm thinking of this team. The 20 games he references goes back to December 16th, we are 5-13-2

The group isn’t that skilled, no question, so no coach will magically cure that, but I also don’t believe they should only be winning five out of 20 games.

Yeah this is true. I mean you look at other teams and there are players you have never heard of, and they have 9 goals. Theres no reason why some of our players shouldnt be more productive then they are. Rieder with 0 goals? You cant even make this stuff up. Something in the water.
 

Daryls Friend

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May 14, 2017
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I think TMac was completely handcuffed by this roster. Hitch is running into the same issue.
There are just so many dumb players on this team that its impossible to put together 4 lines and 3 pairings that can consistently execute a system.

I was convinced before they fired TMac that this roster is too flawed to expect anything other than inconsistency.
Doesn't matter who the coach is IMO.
Exactly. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out.
But oh, I long for the day when Hitch,s hot streak was proof positive that TMac was the problem. Good times.
Where are those guys?
Crickets.
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
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Yeah this is true. I mean you look at other teams and there are players you have never heard of, and they have 9 goals. Theres no reason why some of our players shouldnt be more productive then they are. Rieder with 0 goals? You cant even make this stuff up. Something in the water.
Well when you watch these guys some of their give a f*** meters are at interesting levels.

Rieder actually did look good the first 15 games or so, he just couldn't get anything to go in the net. Here we are 30 games later and it's still the same.

But to me it's not just the production offensively. I look at a guy like Caggiula who is no longer here. If he wasn't scoring, he was out there hitting, grinding it out and even fighting. We just have too many guys that don't do anything at all. At least grinding it out where's down the opposition. Instead come the later parts of a game the other team is fresh and we are playing a limp game.
 

FlameChampion

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Jul 13, 2011
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Well when you watch these guys some of their give a **** meters are at interesting levels.

Rieder actually did look good the first 15 games or so, he just couldn't get anything to go in the net. Here we are 30 games later and it's still the same.

But to me it's not just the production offensively. I look at a guy like Caggiula who is no longer here. If he wasn't scoring, he was out there hitting, grinding it out and even fighting. We just have too many guys that don't do anything at all. At least grinding it out where's down the opposition. Instead come the later parts of a game the other team is fresh and we are playing a limp game.

Yeah I agree. The only problem I saw with Cagguila was that he bled so many chances against. So whatever good he did, he ended up giving it all back and more but you could never say he didnt try.

They have too many guys who dont create anything offensively, and dont do too much of anything else, and usually are pretty bad defensively and cant read the play well.
 
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joestevens29

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Apr 30, 2009
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Yeah I agree. The only problem I saw with Cagguila was that he bled so many chances against. So whatever good he did, he ended up giving it all back and more but you could never say he didnt try.

They have too many guys who dont create anything offensively, and dont do too much of anything else, and usually are pretty bad defensively and cant read the play well.
At least Caggiula did something to counter the negative. Right now there is just too many that do nothing, but still bleed chances and goals against.
 

Bryanbryoil

Pray For Ukraine
Sep 13, 2004
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Exactly. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out.
But oh, I long for the day when Hitch,s hot streak was proof positive that TMac was the problem. Good times.
Where are those guys?
Crickets.

Stop staring at your nose and fire the OBC already Darryl!
 
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Daryls Friend

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May 14, 2017
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Well when you watch these guys some of their give a **** meters are at interesting levels.

Rieder actually did look good the first 15 games or so, he just couldn't get anything to go in the net. Here we are 30 games later and it's still the same.

But to me it's not just the production offensively. I look at a guy like Caggiula who is no longer here. If he wasn't scoring, he was out there hitting, grinding it out and even fighting. We just have too many guys that don't do anything at all. At least grinding it out where's down the opposition. Instead come the later parts of a game the other team is fresh and we are playing a limp game.
100% agree. I will never understand the Cags trade.That may be the most mind boggling (by far not worst) of all Chias trades. Trade a guy who plays pretty hard, is pretty fast ( on a slow and often non gritty team no less), for at best a depth D man who we already had quite a few of.
Its unbelievable.
Its like Chia was purposely sewering the team.
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
27,204
21,401
People are suggesting he was behind the Cagg trade. I really doubt it. I think Chia was screwing us over intently getting Manning. Certainly its Chias fault we have no wingers. Sure Hitch makes mistakes in player usage, every coach does. The trouble on this team and lineup is every mistake is magnified because the team is so bad there is never a margin for mistakes. Make mistakes and we lose. I don't like Hitch's treatment of rattie, Pulju, and I think they could be used more, but on the other hand he's identified that players like Spooner and Yama were not capable here. Simply not adding anything. He also identified Gryba as a non starter and has now identified Manning can't be in the lineup. But any game he's putting some dolt in the lineup like Colby Cave or Malone because he has no roster to work with essentially.

Hitch could do everything right and this club would miss the playoffs.
If you really want to have an idea who would have input into those trades, look no further than our Vice President of Hockey Operations and pro scout.
 
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FlameChampion

Registered User
Jul 13, 2011
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100% agree. I will never understand the Cags trade.That may be the most mind boggling (by far not worst) of all Chias trades. Trade a guy who plays pretty hard, is pretty fast ( on a slow and often non gritty team no less), for at best a depth D man who we already had quite a few of.
Its unbelievable.
Its like Chia was purposely sewering the team.

I think they traded him because hes such a sieve defensively. Out of the forwards, he was probably as responsible for as many goals against as anyone on this team. That being said he did contribute more positively than some of the forwards as well.

I dont have a problem with trading Cagguila. But I dont understand trading him for Manning. Like you said it was mind boggling. The trade makes no sense. Manning is not a solution on this team. And he costs more money on a team that has cap problems. The organization has no idea on what kind of players they should be targetting.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Apr 12, 2010
71,804
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I think they traded him because hes such a sieve defensively. Out of the forwards, he was probably as responsible for as many goals against as anyone on this team. That being said he did contribute more positively than some of the forwards as well.

I dont have a problem with trading Cagguila. But I dont understand trading him for Manning. Like you said it was mind boggling. The trade makes no sense. Manning is not a solution on this team. And he costs more money on a team that has cap problems. The organization has no idea on what kind of players they should be targetting.
Well he's gone and the Oilers are now worse defensively.

Didn't seem to be too big of a defensive liability when Chicago steamrolled the Oilers.
 

sepHF

Patreeky
Feb 12, 2010
15,702
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Look at their faces and you can tell exactly what they are thinking:

K Gretzky - Holy Great Jesus ****in Hell did Chiarelli **** us over. This teams ****.

Hitch - Why the bloody **** did I say yes to coaching this ****.

Howson - Prime Nikitin would be the answer here. Damn.


Nikitin tho :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
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Tyrolean

Registered User
Feb 1, 2004
9,625
724
What is past is past.Not good to keep dwelling on the mistakes, Forget about the bad trades and try to improve the team through good moves form now on. Hope the new GM can for this without interference.
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
27,204
21,401
What is past is past.Not good to keep dwelling on the mistakes, Forget about the bad trades and try to improve the team through good moves form now on. Hope the new GM can for this without interference.
The problem is, is that the past isn't entirely gone. When the architects of the hiring of these bozos are still alive and kicking in this organization, all you've done is simply removed the faulty upper floor, while the foundation remains rotting. Sorry, but I have concerns they will make yet another stupid hire and we are back here again in 4 years.
 

GhostfaceWu

Shi Shaw
Feb 11, 2015
9,794
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Exactly. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out.
But oh, I long for the day when Hitch,s hot streak was proof positive that TMac was the problem. Good times.
Where are those guys?
Crickets.
oh you mean the stretch of games where he had everyone available to him that Tmac had?
 

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