Tribute Timothy Liljegren Discussion

[Gary Nylund]

More importantly for Liljegren, if he plays the rest of the season I guarantee you his minutes will ramp up.

It is nice not having to call a kid up and force him to play big minutes right away (Schenn and Aulie come to mind). He should be up to 15 mins soon and will get more minutes when ohr offense gets rolling again and we get some leads.

Exactly. People will literally find anything to complain about.

I am a big fan of Liljegren. Never understood the bad press he was getting. Every time I watched him with the Marlies in the play-offs last year he was great. Never understood why Dubas wanted to include him over Durzi in the Muzzin trade (if true).

Not sure where that BS rumour got started but I believe that's all it ever was - a BS rumour.

I saw him live just once and was so impressed, I've been a believer ever since. Just one game I know, first impressions mean a lot though and I think his potential is huge so I disagree with people who say his ceiling is 2nd pair or WE. Not sure how it's even possible to put ceilings on players that are so young but it's especially ridiculous when their raw skills are so good

 

[Walshy7]

I am a big fan of Liljegren. Never understood the bad press he was getting. Every time I watched him with the Marlies in the play-offs last year he was great. Never understood why Dubas wanted to include him over Durzi in the Muzzin trade (if true).

Durzi and liljegren are not in the same stratosphere as prospects. Dubas did not want to include him for the deal of muzzin likely wanted a 1st or top propsect added if he was going to give up liljegren so LA quickly say "ok Durzi will do"

 

[HellasLEAF]

Next Season:

Rielly -
Muzzin - Liljigren
Sandin - Holl

Trade Dermy & AJ/Kerfoot for a RHD

If we finally land that top RHD, our defence will go from weakness to strength. I love the potential of that top 6 up there...

 

[kb]

Hey Bryan is finally on the good side.

Hey Bryan, didn't you say for a long time that Liljegren was a bust?

 

[kb]

This Dermott take isn’t wrong, but it amazes me. Rewind to when Dermott came up, and really before the injury, his biggest asset was the deft little hockey IQ plays he made. Dermott played so smart and actually made his partners better. I’m not sure what is going on with him, clearly plateaued this year and his confidence is low. I’m not writing him off yet, he’s shown flashes, but for me he really needs to get stronger to be top 4, he’s hasn’t filled out one iota the past couple of years.

I liked his IQ early on too. Smart reads and pinches. Now he looks like he's trying too hard. He needs to play with more awareness - like he did when he first came up.

 

[BlueForever75]

I really like Lilly's game and since being put back with Sandin he is looking comfortable. This pairing should be together for infinity. They play with each other really well and will only get better as they get accustomed to the NHL size and speed. Feeling a lot better about next season with these two in the top 6.

When you add in Muzzin on an extension, which should be a must. And Reilly. That is a solid group of 4 dmen.

That leaves 2 spots on the team. To me that should be one of 2 things:

1) You finally bite the bullet and put Reilly and Dermott together with Dermott playing right side.

2) You deal Dermott as part of a package to get a RHD long-term for Reilly


Option 1

Reilly-Dermott
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Lilly

Option 2

Reilly-New Dman
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Lilly

Pick your poison.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Hey Bryan, didn't you say for a long time that Liljegren was a bust?

Yea.. that guy has no clue what he's talking about in general, bust especially prospects. People don't forget these stupid takes.

I never understood why Liljegren didn't come with more hype. I realize people were fawning over Sandin looking great but most of us that watch the Marlies could see him coming for about a year and a half now, and this year he was putting up a ridiculous 20 year old season by AHL standards.

A lot of those top 50 prospect lists will look pretty stupid soon too for not having him on them.

 

[BlueForever75]

Yea.. that guy has no clue what he's talking about in general, bust especially prospects. People don't forget these stupid takes.

I never understood why Liljegren didn't come with more hype. I realize people were fawning over Sandin looking great but most of us that watch the Marlies could see him coming for about a year and a half now, and this year he was putting up a ridiculous 20 year old season by AHL standards.

A lot of those top 50 prospect lists will look pretty stupid soon too for not having him on them.

Totally agree. Lilly for some reason wasn't liked his draft year. Rumors had it because he had mono and draft stock went down. I bought it at the time, but the more time has passed I feel like Lilly gets a raw deal.

Yes Sandin came out of no where, but Lilly has steadily improved in areas the Leafs have asked. And to me he looks more confident in his game then Sandin at this point. With all the need the Leafs have had for a RHD, I really am not sure why it took them this long to bring Lilly up for good.

He is much better then Ceci and costs a fraction of the price. Can we chalk this up to Babcock!!! Possibly.

 

[DarkKnight]

I liked his IQ early on to. Smart reads and pinches. Now he looks like he's trying too hard. He needs to play with more awareness - like he did when he first came up.

You’re right he’s trying to do too much, his game is less is more.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I'm not saying they're anywhere close to as good, but the Sandin-Liljegren pairing reminds me of a smaller version of Slavin-Pesce. They don't make flashy plays offensively or destroy anyone on the boards defensively, they just machines that quietly move the puck to the offensive zone.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Totally agree. Lilly for some reason wasn't liked his draft year. Rumors had it because he had mono and draft stock went down. I bought it at the time, but the more time has passed I feel like Lilly gets a raw deal.

Yes Sandin came out of no where, but Lilly has steadily improved in areas the Leafs have asked. And to me he looks more confident in his game then Sandin at this point. With all the need the Leafs have had for a RHD, I really am not sure why it took them this long to bring Lilly up for good.

He is much better then Ceci and costs a fraction of the price. Can we chalk this up to Babcock!!! Possibly.

I don't think we can hang this one on Babcock (as much as I would love to). As soon as Keefe took over, he brought up Engvall. If he thought Liljegren was ready all along, I can only assume he would have brought him up as well.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Liljegren is getting exactly the sheltered minutes good development would indicate he should get. Sandin and Liljegren getting these reps together with sheltered minutes is a long time coming and I’m just enjoying it.

Its coming together here. Clifford adds presence, Campbell adds a component of a truly good backup. Liljegren and Sandin could be a pair for us for a decade. Pretty sure they will be getting more than 11 minutes per game by year 7 or so

Funny how media are the only ones pushing pushing to add or try adding pressure to our players. Lots of time and we still aren’t quite the right mix of players to be that consistent equally good offensively/defensively type team yet.

Building confidence in our rookie defensemen slowly is the right way to go. They have been deserving of more strictly based on their games. Thats good signs right there.

 

[stickty111]

If Dermott is going to play like this, Keefe should start playing Lilly more minutes.

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

If Dermott is going to play like this, Keefe should start playing Lilly more minutes.

I thought he should have played more tonight. Holl and Barrie both look overworked to me and Liljgren was doing a good job moving the puck up the ice with his passing. I’ve been very impressed with his play so far.

 

[mapleleaf979]

I thought he should have played more tonight. Holl and Barrie both look overworked to me and Liljgren was doing a good job moving the puck up the ice with his passing. I’ve been very impressed with his play so far.

Liljegren had a very average game tonight. In the first period, he had 2 big turnovers in his own zone on the same shift. Also, his pinches are questionable too. Everytime Liljegren was on the ice, I isolated on him. Im not sure at times what he is thinking. I like his skating and he can move pucks well at times. At times also, Liljegren is passing to the wrong man and forces his team-mate in a tough spot to maintain possession. Of course he has to learn to adjust to what he can and cant do in this league. He has not wowed me once with a high IQ play, I don't see him being a Top 4 dman but that doesn't matter. If he can be solid in the bottom pairing, that's a win.

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

Liljegren had a very average game tonight. In the first period, he had 2 big turnovers in his own zone on the same shift. Also, his pinches are questionable too. Everytime Liljegren was on the ice, I isolated on him. Im not sure at times what he is thinking. I like his skating and he can move pucks well at times. At times also, Liljegren is passing to the wrong man and forces his team-mate in a tough spot to maintain possession. Of course he has to learn to adjust to what he can and cant do in this league. He has not wowed me once with a high IQ play, I don't see him being a Top 4 dman but that doesn't matter. If he can be solid in the bottom pairing, that's a win.

I missed a good chunk of the first, so I can’t say I saw or recall that shift but I will take your word for it. From what I saw he moved the puck pretty effectively. Nothing too sneaky like Sandin, but a lot of tape to tape passes up the ice. While I don’t think he is ever going to be a #1 D, I do think he can become a top four complimentary guy.

Personally, I don’t think you need more than one or two game breakers on the back end. With this forward group a guy who can consistently make safe but solid plays with the puck in his own end and push the puck up the ice is all we need.

Good on you for being able to ISO him. I don’t have the self restraint to do that when he hops the boards so infrequently and Barrie is out there half the game. That’s a guy whose thought process I will never understand.

 

[Gabriel426]

Leafs need veteran Dman to pair with these kids.
I think part of the reason Dermott has not been improving is the fact that he was never paired with a vet Dman to reach him positioning and timing in the back.
Same thing will happen with Sandin and Lil.

 

[lipstickjunkie]

I really like Lilly's game and since being put back with Sandin he is looking comfortable. This pairing should be together for infinity. They play with each other really well and will only get better as they get accustomed to the NHL size and speed. Feeling a lot better about next season with these two in the top 6.

When you add in Muzzin on an extension, which should be a must. And Reilly. That is a solid group of 4 dmen.

That leaves 2 spots on the team. To me that should be one of 2 things:

1) You finally bite the bullet and put Reilly and Dermott together with Dermott playing right side.

2) You deal Dermott as part of a package to get a RHD long-term for Reilly


Option 1

Reilly-Dermott
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Lilly

Option 2

Reilly-New Dman
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Lilly

Pick your poison.

Definitely option 2. Dermott is nowhere near a top-pairing dman unfortunately.

 

[stickty111]

Liljegren had a very average game tonight. In the first period, he had 2 big turnovers in his own zone on the same shift. Also, his pinches are questionable too. Everytime Liljegren was on the ice, I isolated on him. Im not sure at times what he is thinking. I like his skating and he can move pucks well at times. At times also, Liljegren is passing to the wrong man and forces his team-mate in a tough spot to maintain possession. Of course he has to learn to adjust to what he can and cant do in this league. He has not wowed me once with a high IQ play, I don't see him being a Top 4 dman but that doesn't matter. If he can be solid in the bottom pairing, that's a win.

He is developing into a top 4 defenceman. I could find faults if I isolated in someone as well.
He was really good again.

 

[stickty111]

I missed a good chunk of the first, so I can’t say I saw or recall that shift but I will take your word for it. From what I saw he moved the puck pretty effectively. Nothing too sneaky like Sandin, but a lot of tape to tape passes up the ice. While I don’t think he is ever going to be a #1 D, I do think he can become a top four complimentary guy.

Personally, I don’t think you need more than one or two game breakers on the back end. With this forward group a guy who can consistently make safe but solid plays with the puck in his own end and push the puck up the ice is all we need.

Good on you for being able to ISO him. I don’t have the self restraint to do that when he hops the boards so infrequently and Barrie is out there half the game. That’s a guy whose thought process I will never understand.

You shouldn't focus on that poster. He has been making up stuff about Lilly for sometime now.

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

Leafs need veteran Dman to pair with these kids.
I think part of the reason Dermott has not been improving is the fact that he was never paired with a vet Dman to reach him positioning and timing in the back.
Same thing will happen with Sandin and Lil.

I think they are pretty limited with how they can use these guys, not only because of the cap but because of playing styles. Muzzin is the only guy who can be classified as a shutdown guy and Barrie and Rielly are the only other vets. You can’t throw Liljgren (or Sandin) into a 20+ shutdown role as Muzzin’s partner. They have too many guys with similar playing styles and it’s why I think Dermott will be the odd man out this summer and moved in a trade.

 

[mapleleaf979]

He is developing into a top 4 defenceman. I could find faults if I isolated in someone as well.
He was really good again.

After 5 games in the NHL, u can not say he is developing into a Top 4. There is no way to judge that. Liljegren was not really good last night, he had an up and down game and some brutal turnovers. That's a fact. U are far too emotional defending Liljegren over and over again, very sensitive topic if anyone on this board says something other than glowing praise for him. When someone becomes emotional, they lose touch to accurately see how that player is playing.

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

After 5 games in the NHL, u can not say he is developing into a Top 4. There is no way to judge that. Liljegren was not really good last night, he had an up and down game and some brutal turnovers. That's a fact. U are far too emotional defending Liljegren over and over again, very sensitive topic if anyone on this board says something other than glowing praise for him. When someone becomes emotional, they lose touch to accurately see how that player is playing.

I don’t doubt that there is a little bit of a shiny new toy syndrome going on here. But which game are you referring to? Like I said, I missed a good portion of the first tonight but I didn’t see any egregious turnovers. Nor have I seen any over the last few games.

To be fair, I haven’t seen a #1 stud D in the making either, but I haven’t seen anything that leads me to believe that this 20 year old D can’t become a solid top four guy. Perhaps even a complimentary piece on a top pair, depending on usage and the partner’s playing style.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think they are pretty limited with how they can use these guys, not only because of the cap but because of playing styles. Muzzin is the only guy who can be classified as a shutdown guy and Barrie and Rielly are the only other vets. You can’t throw Liljgren (or Sandin) into a 20+ shutdown role as Muzzin’s partner. They have too many guys with similar playing styles and it’s why I think Dermott will be the odd man out this summer and moved in a trade.

Once Reilly comes back, I think they might run Dermott and Muzzin and see if they can be the shut down pair. Then have Holl and Sandin as the bottom pair.
I still think Dermott will be a better player if he doesn’t need to be the one leading the pair. Since he came into the league he rarely get a chance to play with a vet.

 

[StatsNightHeroes]

Once Reilly comes back, I think they might run Dermott and Muzzin and see if they can be the shut down pair. Then have Holl and Sandin as the bottom pair.
I still think Dermott will be a better player if he doesn’t need to be the one leading the pair. Since he came into the league he rarely get a chance to play with a vet.

I can’t see them moving Dermott to the right side while simultaneously introducing him to playing against other team’s top lines in heavy minutes. Barring an injury to Muzzin or Holl, I think Keefe will continue to use them as the shutdown pair. I don’t think Dermott has done anything this year to suggest that he is better suited to that role than Holl and they can’t afford to lose points by experimenting and changing the only pair that seems to be anything close to responsible in their own zone.