Tribute Timothy Liljegren Discussion

[MattySnipes]

Happy birthday Liljegren.

Wish you the best going forward and for years to come. Enjoy your day.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Versteeg wasn't as important to any team he's played for as Muzzin and Brodie are to this defense. We've seen what this D looks like without them, and it's bad.

Should we trade Nylander because Robertson might be as good to get some cap relief that we may need in the future? That's the comparison you're throwing out here.

Nylander is our best right handed shooter, but yes if there was someone who could replace him and he was on the wrong side of 30, why not look at that?

We have top 6 defencemen for this year that put us #1 in the division, since then, not one but two top defence prospects look like they can now play in the top 6 moving forward.

Why not look at shedding one top 6 dman on the wrong side of 30?

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

He was standing them up all night and zipping quick passes to relieve pressure all night. Solid game and he looked relaxed. He can play defense. Once he is a fixture on the team he will likely feel the responsibility to show his offensive game. Right now they want solid defense. He done that in spades.

Yea that's why I would love to see him play with a guy like Muzzin for a bit. Take some of the defensive pressure off so he can ease in and get comfortable.

Not unlike when he played with Loverde on the Marlies for a while.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Last I saw Button had Niemela and Koster ahead of Liljegren ... like what? Those guys are nice but Liljegren is ready for the NHL and those guys still have a ways to go to get there and may never even get as far as Liljegren has already

Ya I couldn't understand that either. Liljegren is closer to Sandin than he is to Niemela and Koster. I don't think Timmy has as high of a ceiling as Rasmus, but he has top pairing potential for sure.

 

[nobody]

Not too comfortable having two 34-35 year olds (in a couple years) in our top 4 during our contention years and I would keep Muzzin over Brodie.

We had Ron f***ing Hainsey at 38 playing top pair with Rielly and before Brodie came to us this season, Hainsey was probably the best partner we've had on that top pair. These players in the modern NHL don't fall off a cliff at 34-35. This is not to say we're going to dish out another 5 year big-money deal to them at those ages. For all we know, Muzz get traded in 3 years time when his play is declining. We have a ton of cheaper options that are much better than Rielly long-term, in guys like Lilly and Sandin.

If there's a candidate that I'm worried about declining and not being worth his contract in 3-4 years, it's probably Rielly. If his offense goes or his skating declines, his defensive abilities are nowhere near good enough to justify a big-money deal.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Actually it's the same logic that went into not resigning Bozak JVR Komarov, trading Martin.

All were effective players still, but as a GM you can't just think about what's working now, you have to think about who could possibly drop off and where you need to focus on next year as well.

Lol at comparing Bozak, JVR, Komarov or Martin to players like Brodie/Muzzin.

Your argument/logic was terrible to begin with and somehow you've managed to make it worse.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Last I saw Button had Niemela and Koster ahead of Liljegren ... like what? Those guys are nice but Liljegren is ready for the NHL and those guys still have a ways to go to get there and may never even get as far as Liljegren has already

The weird thing for me is that his age 20 season was spectacular in the AHL (comparable to Shea Theodore's) and a guy like Button who usually tries to hype that level of player up like crazy to look smart, just seemingly pretended that he didn't exist. Especially in a market like Toronto where we overhype guys in the media all the time.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Lol at comparing Bozak, JVR, Komarov or Martin to players like Brodie/Muzzin.

Your argument/logic was terrible to begin with and somehow you've managed to make it worse.

We have top 6 defencemen for this year that put us #1 in the division, since then, not one but two top defence prospects look like they can now play in the top 6 moving forward.

Why not look at shedding one top 6 dman on the wrong side of 30?

 

[4thline]

Why not look at shedding one top 6 dman on the wrong side of 30?

Because it makes us worse now for potentially no long term gain.

The only way you win if if the one you let go is plays their way out of the league next season.

It's not "shedding one top 6 man on the wrong side of 30" it's "giving away a strong top 3 dman for nothing because reasons"

 

[BertCorbeau]

We have top 6 defencemen for this year that put us #1 in the division, since then, not one but two top defence prospects look like they can now play in the top 6 moving forward.

Why not look at shedding one top 6 dman on the wrong side of 30?

Sends a really bad message to signing free agents in the future.

 

[Twine Tickler]

The weird thing for me is that his age 20 season was spectacular in the AHL (comparable to Shea Theodore's) and a guy like Button who usually tries to hype that level of player up like crazy to look smart, just seemingly pretended that he didn't exist. Especially in a market like Toronto where we overhype guys in the media all the time.

the only rationale I can think of was his 1st stint in the NHL. Timmy clearly looked lost in his 11 games last year. Just played with no confidence. Something all D-men need, but especially Timmy. I'll be honest, I was a little concerned after those 11 games. But watching him on the Marlies this year, it is very clear that he is a special player and way too god for the AHL. It's just a matter of giving him the opportunities to make mistakes, and encouraging him to play loose. Shelter him as best you can, but you can't shackle him. Because letting him wheel is what will make him confident.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Because it makes us worse now for potentially no long term gain.

The only way you win if if the one you let go is plays their way out of the league next season.

It's not "shedding one top 6 man on the wrong side of 30" it's "giving away a strong top 3 dman for nothing because reasons"

And that's fine.

However the risk you run is when that player plays their way out, you end up in a Marleau situation and need to tag on a first to that player.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Sends a really bad message to signing free agents in the future.

Connor McDavid would not let that stop him from signing with the Leafs if he gets to play on his team of choice and has a chance to win.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

We have top 6 defencemen for this year that put us #1 in the division, since then, not one but two top defence prospects look like they can now play in the top 6 moving forward.

Why not look at shedding one top 6 dman on the wrong side of 30?

Yes, they are #1 in the division for a reason. Improved defensive play.

Now you want to get rid of that improved defensive play because Liljegren was ok in 1 game with 15 minutes of icetime against the worst team in the division.

Wrong side of 30? Muzz is 32 and Brodie 30. Do you think before typing or? What happens when we get injuries next year? Where's the depth?

Certain members of this fanbase are bipolar sometimes. Finally lock down a top end defensive team and it's LeTs SHiP thEM oUT nOW, tHEy mIGht NoT Be GrEAt iN 3 yAErs!!!!

 

[MR4]

Not sure why we would give up defensive depth when we don’t need it, it’s realistic to assume 1 will miss a big chunk of their season each year so it’s always good to have 7 quality dmen. We may lose a dman this year to ED anyways, but we can only afford to lose a depth role player like Holl & Dermott instead of one we continuously rely on, if we want our defence to stay as good as it’s been. I see this as a good organizational plan:

This year:
Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl
Sandin-Dermott
Lilly

Next year: (after exposing Holl)
Rielly-Dermott
Sandin-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Depth

In two years: (Rielly’s cap $ is given to Liljegren & Sandin for their new contracts)
Sandin-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren
Dermott-Depth

In three years:
Sandin-Brodie
Dermott-Liljegren
Muzzin-Niemela/Prospect

Only after this season do you look to exit on Muzzin & Brodie to give their cap $ to Matthews & Nylander for their new contracts.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

the only rationale I can think of was his 1st stint in the NHL. Timmy clearly looked lost in his 11 games last year. Just played with no confidence. Something all D-men need, but especially Timmy. I'll be honest, I was a little concerned after those 11 games. But watching him on the Marlies this year, it is very clear that he is a special player and way too god for the AHL. It's just a matter of giving him the opportunities to make mistakes, and encouraging him to play loose. Shelter him as best you can, but you can't shackle him. Because letting him wheel is what will make him confident.

Keep in mind though that he was fine in those 11 games when he got limited time with Muzzin and Dermott.

He struggled with Sandin (when he was also in a rough stretch), Marincin, and another RD in Barrie/Holl.

He didn't have the greatest support in the lineup and played under 10 minutes in a few of those games. Not an ideal situation.

 

[4thline]

And that's fine.

However the risk you run is when that player plays their way out, you end up in a Marleau situation and need to tag on a first to that player.

Even if paying a 1st to get rid of the last year of Muzzin's contract was a 100% perfect certainty, giving him away this offseason for nothing is a worse move.

 

[zeke]

the only rationale I can think of was his 1st stint in the NHL. Timmy clearly looked lost in his 11 games last year. Just played with no confidence. Something all D-men need, but especially Timmy. I'll be honest, I was a little concerned after those 11 games. But watching him on the Marlies this year, it is very clear that he is a special player and way too god for the AHL. It's just a matter of giving him the opportunities to make mistakes, and encouraging him to play loose. Shelter him as best you can, but you can't shackle him. Because letting him wheel is what will make him confident.

There were 3 (misleading, superficial) reasons why he got slept on:

1. Being in the AHL at age 18, 2yrs early. This made people feel that he was "stuck" in the AHL at age 20, which is the earliest that chl players can even enter the ahl.

2. Being "passed" by Sandin on the depth chart. This overlooked that this was only because Sandin is awesome, not because Lilly isn't very good. And it overlooked that there were far more injuries on the left side of the leafs' D than the right side.

3. He did look genuinely in over his head in his first stint last year. That's never great to see, of course, but it's hardly a damning indictment of a 20yr old rook getting his first cup of coffee.


Basically all those reasons were flat out dumb, and paled beside the only 2 things that actually mattered:

1. His elite all around nhl skillset.

2. His fantastic performance relative to age and league at every level.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Yes, they are #1 in the division for a reason. Improved defensive play.

Now you want to get rid of that improved defensive play because Liljegren was ok in 1 game with 15 minutes of icetime against the worst team in the division.

Wrong side of 30? Muzz is 32 and Brodie 30. Do you think before typing or? What happens when we get injuries next year? Where's the depth?

Certain members of this fanbase are bipolar sometimes. Finally lock down a top end defensive team and it's LeTs SHiP thEM oUT nOW, tHEy mIGht NoT Be GrEAt iN 3 yAErs!!!!

If Liljegren and Sandin prove they are ready to be in the top 6 by the end of the year, why not look at it?

Muzzin Holl
Rielly Liljegren
Sandin Bogosian
Dermott UFA

 

[BertCorbeau]

There were 3 (misleading, superficial) reasons why he got slept on:

1. Being in the AHL at age 18, 2yrs early. This made people feel that he was "stuck" in the AHL at age 20, which is the earliest that chl players can even enter the ahl.

2. Being "passed" by Sandin on the depth chart. This overlooked that this was only because Sandin is awesome, not because Lilly isn't very good. And it overlooked that there were far more injuries on the left side of the leafs' D than the right side.

3. He did look genuinely in over his head in his first stint last year. That's never great to see, of course, but it's hardly a damning indictment of a 20yr old rook getting his first cup of coffee.


Basically all those reasons were flat out dumb, and paled beside the only 2 things that actually mattered:

1. His elite all around nhl skillset.

2. His fantastic performance relative to age and league at every level.

3. His work ethic and dedication to get physically stronger and become a TRUCK

 

[zeke]

3. His work ethic and dedication to get physically stronger and become a TRUCK

Yep.

And shame on anyone who didn't notice his massive physical development just from looking at pictures. Guy is a tank.

 

[4thline]

If Liljegren and Sandin prove they are ready to be in the top 6 by the end of the year, why not look at it?

Because we can make room for them AND ice an overall better defense by not letting a top pair defender go for no gain.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Because we can make room for them AND ice an overall better defense by not letting a top pair defender go for no gain.

How so?

 

[MR4]

If Liljegren and Sandin prove they are ready to be in the top 6 by the end of the year, why not look at it?

Muzzin Holl
Rielly Liljegren
Sandin Bogosian
Dermott UFA

There is absolutely no indication that we can rely on Holl for top pairing minutes, and Liljegren has not proven himself at all.

Very weird to look towards ruining our RD depth when we haven’t had anyone as good as Brodie at RD this decade

 

[LeafChief]

A lot of flip flopping from a bunch of you that told us he sucked for many years.

Imagine that - the people that actually watched him play knew that he was going to be good. Who would have thought?