Tribute Timothy Liljegren Discussion

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supermann_98

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Its actually comical what their assessment's were of him. Hayes is one thing, he is a radio host. But Button is supposed to be a hockey mind. One that supposedly has a firm grasp on NHL prospects and draft eligible prospects. He clearly did not watch any Marlies games in the last couple years. It was very clear he was the best Marlie all year this year and it wasn't even particularly close
Last I saw Button had Niemela and Koster ahead of Liljegren ... like what? Those guys are nice but Liljegren is ready for the NHL and those guys still have a ways to go to get there and may never even get as far as Liljegren has already
 

LeafGrief

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Justin Holl needs to sign up for that next seminar.
True, but he can also lead the "Staple the guy to the boards and then take the puck" seminar, which is also very useful. They could set up a seminar series or something. Rielly could do one for, "Neutral Zone transitions and you" while Brodie could give a very informative one on "Defending the 2 on 1, how to save the day"
 
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Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
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I think this is the perfect time of the season to give Sandin/Liljegren a little run as a defensive pairing before the playoffs start to see how they handle NHL competition.

It appears less likely that Bogosian will be ready for the first round, so it's important to figure out the ideal defense pairings in advance.
 
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A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
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this is the best Leafs defense corps we've seen in 30 years, why would you want to start planning away the two biggest catalysts that have got us here?

They'll likely decline at some point towards the end of, or after, their existing contracts. In the meantime, do your best to develop replacements and enjoy what they're bringing to the table with the Leafs being a well better than average defensive team.

Agreed on the best defence in my life time.

Not saying get rid of both, I'm saying the easiest to be relieved of one of the contracts is the expansion draft since Liljegren and Sandin are ready for a top 6 roles now.

For example if we lose Brodie:

Muzzin Holl
Rielly Liljegren
Sandin Bogosian
Dermott
 

zeke

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Most defensive defenseman remain effective well into their mid-30's so I'm not worried about their play falling off a cliff. As a matter of fact when their contracts expire I'm sure th Habs will be interested in signing them as UFA's as Bergevin has a stiffy when it comes to signing older UFA defensive defenseman

Petry's new 5yr deal STARTS at age 34!
 

zeke

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Pleasantly surprised with his progression, with the way how the TSN guys (Button, Hayes etc) I'd thought he'd be the next Tyler Biggs of defensemen.

Kid deserves a longer look, he is already more defensively sound than guys like Holl and Hutton.

FYI listening to those talking heads only makes one less informed.
 
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A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
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So you're saying that Liljegren or Sandin are ready to replace a good top 3 NHL dman next season?
For example if we lose Brodie:

Muzzin Holl
Rielly Liljegren
Sandin Bogosian
Dermott

I think we still have 7 capable dmen in the mix.​
 

Randy Randerson

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For example of we lose Brodie:

Muzzin Holl
Rielly Liljegren
Sandin Bogosian
Dermott

I think we still have 7 capable dmen in the mix.​
That's a ridiculous take, and absolutely asking to go back to being frustrated with the defense like we have been for a long, long time after finally fixing this problem.

Sandin and Liljegren have been good in sheltered, small minute usage in small samples, asking them to replace a good 20+min top 3 NHL dman with no safety net is the kind of pressure that ruins prospects.

We're probably going to lose Dermott in expansion, who knows if Bogosian will be back. So there will be opportunity for them to play going forward, with a huge safety net but also the ability to steal someone's job if they're good enough.
 

A1LeafNation

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Oct 17, 2010
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That's a ridiculous take, and absolutely asking to go back to being frustrated with the defense like we have been for a long, long time after finally fixing this problem.

Sandin and Liljegren have been good in sheltered, small minute usage in small samples, asking them to replace a good 20+min top 3 NHL dman with no safety net is the kind of pressure that ruins prospects.

We're probably going to lose Dermott in expansion, who knows if Bogosian will be back. So there will be opportunity for them to play going forward, with a huge safety net but also the ability to steal someone's job if they're good enough.

No it's not ridiculous at all. This is what teams do when they want to keep being competitive.

They trade out the veterans when the cheap prospects are ready to take over.

In this case, we can expose one for cap relief, rather than trading one WITH a first later on.
 

justloveleafs

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Its actually comical what their assessment's were of him. Hayes is one thing, he is a radio host. But Button is supposed to be a hockey mind. One that supposedly has a firm grasp on NHL prospects and draft eligible prospects. He clearly did not watch any Marlies games in the last couple years. It was very clear he was the best Marlie all year this year and it wasn't even particularly close

NOT having a like button is cruel. So many good posts to like, this one is very good, and makes me laugh at same time.
 

Randy Randerson

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No it's not ridiculous at all. This is what teams do when they want to keep being competitive.

They trade out the veterans when the cheap prospects are ready to take over.
They don't trade the pillars of their organization until they have to for cap reasons, we're not there yet, and we don't know what we have in Sandin or Liljegren.

But I did just sign up for Getting Ahead of Yourself 101, can I get an early look at the syllabus, Teach?
 

4thline

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Jul 18, 2014
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That's a ridiculous take, and absolutely asking to go back to being frustrated with the defense like we have been for a long, long time after finally fixing this problem.

Sandin and Liljegren have been good in sheltered, small minute usage in small samples, asking them to replace a good 20+min top 3 NHL dman with no safety net is the kind of pressure that ruins prospects.

We're probably going to lose Dermott in expansion, who knows if Bogosian will be back. So there will be opportunity for them to play going forward, with a huge safety net but also the ability to steal someone's job if they're good enough.

Agree that exposing Brodie/Muzzin is idiotic, but I do think that there is enough time for them to change our offseason/next season plans in a big way, but that's by making Rielly available in trade and protecting Dermott instead of Holl.
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
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They don't trade the pillars of their organization until they have to for cap reasons, we're not there yet, and we don't know what we have in Sandin or Liljegren.

But I did just sign up for Getting Ahead of Yourself 101, can I get an early look at the syllabus, Teach?

Actually it's the same logic that went into not resigning Bozak JVR Komarov, trading Martin.

All were effective players still, but as a GM you can't just think about what's working now, you have to think about who could possibly drop off and where you need to focus on next year as well.
 

Randy Randerson

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Agree that exposing Brodie/Muzzin is idiotic, but I do think that there is enough time for them to change our offseason/next season plans in a big way, but that's by making Rielly available in trade and protecting Dermott instead of Holl.
I completely agree on that, Sandin in particular I think has a better chance of replacing Rielly next year than Brodie/Muzzin this one.

I just think we should not take the test early, enjoy the quality and depth of defense we have now. I was a little kid the last time the Leafs were winning at this clip.
 

Randy Randerson

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Actually it's the same logic that went into not resigning Bozak JVR Komarov, trading Martin.

All were effective players still, but as a GM you can't just think about what's working now, you have to think about who could possibly drop off and where you need to focus on next year as well.
Bozak & JVR were about as important to a bad offense on a non-contending team as Muzzin & Brodie are to a good defense on a contending team, Komarov & Martin were not in comparable roles. So those aren't comparable.

"things are working now" should be the takeaway.
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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It was only one game against Vancouver but it was still pretty impressive. With Liljegren on the ice 5 on 5:

64.29 CF%
63.64 SF%
72.58 xG%
68.75 SCF%
83.33 HDCF%

Vancouver generated absolutely nothing when he was on the ice.
He was standing them up all night and zipping quick passes to relieve pressure all night. Solid game and he looked relaxed. He can play defense. Once he is a fixture on the team he will likely feel the responsibility to show his offensive game. Right now they want solid defense. He done that in spades.
 

A1LeafNation

Obsession beats talent everytime!!
Oct 17, 2010
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Bozak & JVR were about as important to a bad offense on a non-contending team as Muzzin & Brodie are to a good defense on a contending team, Komarov & Martin were not in comparable roles. So those aren't comparable.

"things are working now" should be the takeaway.

It's the same philosophy Chicago used when trading Versteeg to the Leafs, they still continued to contend, but traded guys like that in order to stay competitive and not fall off in their contending years.
 

4thline

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It's the same philosophy Chicago used when trading Versteeg to the Leafs, they still continued to contend, but traded guys like that in order to stay competitive and not fall off in their contending years.

Trading players in support roles that you literally can no longer afford for 1st round picks
=/=
Giving away cornerstone players that *might* not be worth the last year of their contracts 3 seasons from now for free
 
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Randy Randerson

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It's the same philosophy Chicago used when trading Versteeg to the Leafs, they still continued to contend, but traded guys like that in order to stay competitive and not fall off in their contending years.
Versteeg wasn't as important to any team he's played for as Muzzin and Brodie are to this defense. We've seen what this D looks like without them, and it's bad.

Should we trade Nylander because Robertson might be as good to get some cap relief that we may need in the future? That's the comparison you're throwing out here.
 
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Apex Predator

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Jun 21, 2019
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Liljegren looked good yesterday. He seemed to fall a few times so hopefully that is nothing. I really would like to give him the rest of the season so we can’t really see what he’s got. Next season he should be our bottom pairing right Dman.
 
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