Tribute Timothy Liljegren Discussion

[Mr Hockey]

he is very close to being NHL ready, it will be interesting to see if he can crack the leafs top 6 out of camp next season

 

[Battle Lin]

hes gotten a bit better and a bit better every year, hes gonna be even better by next camp, and at the cap room we have to fill out the bottom of our rosters, we aint finding guys much better than lilly, i expect sandin and liljegren to be our 3rd pairing next year

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Rielly - - - _____
Muzzin - Liljigren
Sandin - - - - Holl

 

[Funk21]

Rielly - - - _____
Muzzin - Liljigren
Sandin - - - - Holl

Would have been nice to go after a player like Pietrangelo but with the cap being what it will likely be there is zero chance.

I proposed this before we got rid of Kadri but CBJ fans scoffed-so maybe revisiting this trade.

CBJ
Wennberg
Savard

TML
Kerfoot
AJ
Maybe a late round pick

We also trade Dermott for a 2nd and a 4th.

While I know Savard is only one year he seems the perfect complement to Reilly. Stay at home RHD with some size and grit. Wennberg while he has underperformed since signing that contract could use a change of scenery and coach. Wennberg was fantastic with Nylander at WHC. It gives us a much stronger 3C with some size and much better defensively. Plus if we need to put the lines in the blender we know there is chemistry.

Hyman Matthews Marner
Mikheyev JT Kapanen
Engvall Wennberg Nylander
Clifford Spezza Korskov
Gauthier

Reilly Savard
Muzzin Liljegren
Sandin Holl

Andersen
Campbell

 

[Einzakin]

Rielly - - - _____
Muzzin - Liljigren
Sandin - - - - Holl

Sandin is ahead of Liljegren

 

[Duke Silver]

Sandin is ahead of Liljegren

Right, but they play different sides... ?

 

[kb]

Right, but they play different sides... ?

To that poster, it doesn't matter.

Narrative only matters.

 

[stickty111]

To that poster, it doesn't matter.

Narrative only matters.

Leafs management also seems to believe Lilly is ahead.

 

[ACC1224]

Sandin is ahead of Liljegren

So is Holl

 

[Einzakin]

Right, but they play different sides... ?

That wont determine whether he gets more ice time though. Being higher in the pairings indicates that's what you mean.

 

[Einzakin]

Leafs management also seems to believe Lilly is ahead.

Oh yeah, by the fact that when they were both on the Marlies Sandin was ahead, as well as the Leafs. Everything indicates they think Sandin is better, and he's even younger.

What evidence suggests Leafs management like Liljegren?

Weird flex tho Sticky.

 

[Duke Silver]

That wont determine whether he gets more ice time though. Being higher in the pairings indicates that's what you mean.

Yes, sometimes one side of a team's defence is stronger than the other, which leads to some inferior players playing on higher pairings.

Very good!

 

[mapleleaf979]

Holl is above Sandin and Liljegren right now. Sandin is above Liljegren. Liljegren played 11 games and 2 of them was the 7th dman dressed. Clearly they didnt trust him to suit up 7. Liljegren also played 5 mins in one of those games and was a -2 and benched.

Button touched on Sandin and echoed what ive said about him this year. Liljegren has to let go of the way he played growing up. He can not be an offensive puck carrier/offensive dman in the NHL. He needs to play defense first. Liljegren I isolate on him and I dont like his decision making at all. I dont understand his timing on pinches, he is guessing wrong/forcing the pinches. He can not stick handle at speed without flubbing the puck. He is forcing passes to guys with no time and space when other options are better. Liljegren didnt wow me once with poise or a deceptive play that opened the ice up.

Liljegren only makes the NHL if he plays a simple game, like Ron Hainsey. I dont know if he wants to play that way but Liljegren will make too many mistakes trying to play a puck carrying, puck moving style that he will force his own way out of the NHL if he doesnt commit to a different style than he played growing up. He simply does not have the hockey sense to play the way he wants too.

 

[Einzakin]

Yes, sometimes one side of a team's defence is stronger than the other, which leads to some inferior players playing on higher pairings.

Very good!

Guess my point is that Lilly isn't even better than Holl so it's weird to put him ahead.

 

[Duke Silver]

Guess my point is that Lilly isn't even better than Holl so it's weird to put him ahead.

Well that wasn't what you said.

 

[Einzakin]

Well that wasn't what you said.

It's exactly what I said. Why is Lilly so high in the lineup when he is in the minors. They allowed Sandin and others to play on their opposite side? Can you not put it together? My goodness.

 

[BlueBaron]

Sandin is ahead of Liljegren

Sandin is also a LH shot while Timmy is a RH.

 

[Duke Silver]

It's exactly what I said. Why is Lilly so high in the lineup when he is in the minors. They allowed Sandin and others to play on their opposite side? Can you not put it together? My goodness.

You think "Sandin is ahead of Liljegren" and "Guess my point is that Lilly isn't even better than Holl so it's weird to put him ahead" are similar statements?

If you had actually said something along the lines of "Sandin should be switched to the right side, ahead of Liljegren", there'd be no confusion. Instead, you lazily grumbled and expected everyone else to pick up on all the words you didn't say.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Guess my point is that Lilly isn't even better than Holl so it's weird to put him ahead.

Why's it so weird?

Clearly this poster is trying to balance a vet with a rookie or at least a stabilizing partner to each one while also considering which side they play, it's not necessarily what I would do but I can see the thought process. Both pairings could be used roughly the same amount at even strength and Muzzin/Holl being used more for PK.

Not sure why people are so rigid about pairings/lines. You need to create the best 4 lines/3 pairs possible and getting caught up in numbering them is a bit flawed some times.

 

[Thornbury]

You think "Sandin is ahead of Liljegren" and "Guess my point is that Lilly isn't even better than Holl so it's weird to put him ahead" are similar statements?

If you had actually said something along the lines of "Sandin should be switched to the right side, ahead of Liljegren", there'd be no confusion. Instead, you lazily grumbled and expected everyone else to pick up on all the words you didn't say.

This whole discussion shows how desperately we need real hockey to talk about.....

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This whole discussion shows how desperately we need real hockey to talk about.....

Totally agree. And the most important issue was not even mentioned and that is getting the right vet partners for these guys to really learn the details of the game from. But my earlier point still stands none of these guys are WORSE than Marincin. Anyone who asserts this just does not know their hockey. and I was completely shocked and massively surprised he was resigned next year.

 

[ottomaddox]

Sandin is also a LH shot while Timmy is a RH.

Being hung-up on who shoots what hand, and balancing the right and left side has resulted in the following: A flat/soft/disorganized/Dion-type shooting Tyson Barrie, and a average to below average Ceci.

I think the last few Cup teams won with majority left-handed defensemen. I don't have perfect NHL stats to back that up, but I heard Ray Ferraro say it on TSN "Overdrive". Even if I can't back it up with statistics it makes sense. At the NHL level many players (wingers and D-men) play their opposite wing.

 

[BlueBaron]

Being hung-up on who shoots what hand, and balancing the right and left side has resulted in the following: A flat/soft/disorganized/Dion-type shooting Tyson Barrie, and a average to below average Ceci.

I think the last few Cup teams won with majority left-handed defensemen. I don't have perfect NHL stats to back that up, but I heard Ray Ferraro say it on TSN "Overdrive". Even if I can't back it up with statistics it makes sense. At the NHL level many players (wingers and D-men) play their opposite wing.

I agree it makes sense with RHD being a minority position (which makes no sense to me since most right handed people should shoot right but it is what it is) that cups are won without them but I think that is out of necessity and is not ideal.

Personally I don't care who is in what spot so long as it yields the best results but I think it is perfectly normal to express our depth chart by natural position over projected reality. I mean I can write Timmy in the top pair all I like but I'm not sure Keefe is going to listen to me

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

Being hung-up on who shoots what hand, and balancing the right and left side has resulted in the following: A flat/soft/disorganized/Dion-type shooting Tyson Barrie, and a average to below average Ceci.

I think the last few Cup teams won with majority left-handed defensemen. I don't have perfect NHL stats to back that up, but I heard Ray Ferraro say it on TSN "Overdrive". Even if I can't back it up with statistics it makes sense. At the NHL level many players (wingers and D-men) play their opposite wing.

There isn't many d-man that play their off-side better than their normal side. They only one I can think of that plays these days is Brodie and even then many think it's cause he was paired with Gio and has since been moved back to his left side I believe. I guess Hainsey is another.

D-man only play their off-side (left handers on the right side) cause there is just that significant of a lack of NHL quality RHD. Even St Louis made significant moves and got the LH/RH balanced.

I could be wrong but I don't think there is a RHD that plays any kind of regular mins on the left side and the teams that play left handed guys on the right side are cause they just don't have any NHL quality RHD.

It's definitely a something that every NHL coach thinks is an important thing.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

I agree it makes sense with RHD being a minority position (which makes no sense to me since most right handed people should shoot right but it is what it is) that cups are won without them but I think that is out of necessity and is not ideal.

Personally I don't care who is in what spot so long as it yields the best results but I think it is perfectly normal to express our depth chart by natural position over projected reality. I mean I can write Timmy in the top pair all I like but I'm not sure Keefe is going to listen to me

Most right handed players shoot left. having your strong hand up top gives you more control/stickhandling and shooting is more in the wrists these days then the power pushed down at that midway point of the stick.