Time To Talk About TJ Brodie

[Tofveve]

Boomer, Warner and Pinder in agreement this am discussing how bad Brodie has been. They said similar things I and many others have been saying for a couple of seasons now: untrustworthy in the defensive zone; poor passes/turnovers; lacks confidence. And more. Is not worthy of top 4 responsibility and is barely deserving of regular minutes. They even said, "not to pile on, but . . ."

This segued into addressing common counterarguments from the last few years, with the more popular being: wait until he gets back with Gio, wait until he's back on the right side.

I'll say it again, I think we should trade him while there is shred of illusion left. And yes I was saying this last year. Alas we traded Hamilton in the off-season.

Click to read more...

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Yawn.

He had his first actually bad game of the season, a game in which nobody played well.

The few miscues in prior games do not mean anything.

Just a reactionary response. Watch him win the Conn Smythe this year.

 

[JPeeper]

He is amazing for 65% of the time, great for 20% of the time, poor 10% of the time, makes a huge error 5% of the time.

Unfortunately for him the fans focus on the last 15% I mentioned and they usually lead to goals against anyway so it's hard to argue against. I don't know what's wrong with him, he'll make 20 good plays in a row then have a f*** up that leads to a goal against, then have 20 good plays again.

I thought he'd be the heir apparent to Gio back when Gio was hurt and Brodie was Norris-esque. But he has backpedalled in terms of growth and now with Hanifin and Vali one of them will be the heir apparent #1 d-man for our future. I don't know what I do with Brodie. He is obviously better than Stone so you don't sit him when Hammer comes, but do you let him walk in free agency? Do you trade him and make Stone your permanent #6 d-man (pls kill me)?

Also I find it laughable a thread is made calling out Brodie for being bad when Stone is essentially an ECHL player out there he is so horrendous.

 

[super6646]

Really have to do this? Yes, he's not a #2 dman anymore due to his brain farts, so what? He's still more than capable of second pairing minutes, and he's been fine with giordano besides two really awful games this season. At this point, best to ride it out because that's where we are at right now. We shouldn't move him because our back end looks terrible then, and frankly he probably won't cost that much to resign at this point either.

 

[Tofveve]

He is amazing for 65% of the time, great for 20% of the time, poor 10% of the time, makes a huge error 5% of the time.

Unfortunately for him the fans focus on the last 15% I mentioned and they usually lead to goals against anyway so it's hard to argue against. I don't know what's wrong with him, he'll make 20 good plays in a row then have a **** up that leads to a goal against, then have 20 good plays again.

I thought he'd be the heir apparent to Gio back when Gio was hurt and Brodie was Norris-esque. But he has backpedalled in terms of growth and now with Hanifin and Vali one of them will be the heir apparent #1 d-man for our future. I don't know what I do with Brodie. He is obviously better than Stone so you don't sit him when Hammer comes, but do you let him walk in free agency? Do you trade him and make Stone your permanent #6 d-man (pls kill me)?

Also I find it laughable a thread is made calling out Brodie for being bad when Stone is essentially an ECHL player out there he is so horrendous.

Comparing him to Stone says a lot tho.

 

[Tofveve]

Yawn.

He had his first actually bad game of the season, a game in which nobody played well.

The few miscues in prior games do not mean anything.

Just a reactionary response. Watch him win the Conn Smythe this year.

 

[JPeeper]

Comparing him to Stone says a lot tho.

Comparing Brodie (a Ferrari FXXK) to Stone (an already blown up Ford Pinto) is only done because fans keep seeing Brodie make 1 mistake a game and think he has been garbage the rest of the time, yet Stone will make 2 good plays a game and thinks he has been fine when he makes 100 other mistakes that no one calls out (the guy misses 98% of the shots he takes which leads to turn overs, he takes a ton of dumb penalties because he is too slow, he never actually plays the puck in the d-zone or neutral zone, he defence against 2 on 1's is hilariously bad). So they think they are comparable which they are not, Stone faces lines 3-4, Brodie faces teams top players, Brodie averages like 5-7 minutes more a game.

Only be another 3 weeks though until Hammer comes back and I'll never see Stone in a Flames jersey ever again.

 

[Tofveve]

Comparing Brodie (a Ferrari FXXK) to Stone (an already blown up Ford Pinto) is only done because fans keep seeing Brodie make 1 mistake a game and think he has been garbage the rest of the time, yet Stone will make 2 good plays a game and thinks he has been fine when he makes 100 other mistakes that no one calls out (the guy misses 98% of the shots he takes which leads to turn overs, he takes a ton of dumb penalties because he is too slow, he never actually plays the puck in the d-zone or neutral zone, he defence against 2 on 1's is hilariously bad). So they think they are comparable which they are not, Stone faces lines 3-4, Brodie faces teams top players, Brodie averages like 5-7 minutes more a game.

Only be another 3 weeks though until Hammer comes back and I'll never see Stone in a Flames jersey ever again.

I'm not a fan of Stone, but this is more of a Brodie thread.

And I feel very justified for my comments over the last couple of years but particularly last year. My thinking was to package him while he still had cache. And, Hamilton had finally rounded into form as a top 2 D (and I criticized him quite a bit in his first couple of years). But now here we are.

I'd still package him at reduced value.

 

[Janks]

We are 8 games into the season, learning a new system, with a partner he had 3 years ago. I think we might be jumping the gun a bit here. Brodie didn't have the best game, but giving up on a top 4 D (who has shown potential to be a 1-2D) for "reduced value" is how we become the Oilers of the league. He has a 53.36 CF% and a 50 FF% this season, so it's not like he's been abhorrent. As reference, Ras (who everyone seems to be praising on the Fan 960) has a 46.29 CF% and a 44.88 FF% - so markedly lower than "terrible" Brodie.

 

[Anglesmith]

Unfortunately, having 6 #1 defencemen locked up for term at a nice cap-friendly deal is just not a realistic scenario, and we need to wrap our heads around that. Brodie probably won't ever be a Norris Trophy defenceman, but neither will most of the defencemen in the league. Most of them are a mixed bag.

It is concerning that Brodie seems to make that one big error every game, but other than that, he makes so many great plays in all three zones, and we never need to worry about him losing a foot-race. On the balance, he's still a guy that helps the team overall. The radio guys sound like they got carried away in an echo-chamber, which is often the case on radio.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Boomer, Warner and Pinder in agreement this am discussing how bad Brodie has been.

This should have been your first red flag. Which one got to use the brain this morning?

Brodie has ALWAYS played like this. He had an all-star stretch when Giordano went down with the bicep injury, and suddenly that's where the bar is placed.

Brodie is an adequately agile puck moving defenseman, who will on occasion make a risky pass that winds up on the tape of the opposing team. His willingness to take those risks is why he's counted on to be part of the offense.

He's better paired with a stay-at-home type, like Engelland because someone slower and more defensive minded than him will be able to clean up some of these mistakes.

 

[Calculon]

Yeah, he's a top four defenceman on a team that still needs all the top four defencemen it has for the time being. He's not going anywhere (and if he was, a defenceman would have to be coming back - I don't think people realize just how thin the depth chart is at the moment).

Top four defencemen are flawed. As long as the good outweighs the bad (and clearly does with Brodie), you deal with it.

 

[tmurfin]

He’s been better this year. And talk about over exaggeration, not worth of our top 4? Please. He’s an average 2 on a good night, a good 3-4 most others, he’s not the one to replace Gio like we’d hoped, but that’s the way she goes.

 

[Dack]

We are 8 games into the season, learning a new system, with a partner he had 3 years ago. I think we might be jumping the gun a bit here. Brodie didn't have the best game, but giving up on a top 4 D (who has shown potential to be a 1-2D) for "reduced value" is how we become the Oilers of the league. He has a 53.36 CF% and a 50 FF% this season, so it's not like he's been abhorrent. As reference, Ras (who everyone seems to be praising on the Fan 960) has a 46.29 CF% and a 44.88 FF% - so markedly lower than "terrible" Brodie.

Brodie plays with Gio though last year with worse forwards Hamilton was like a 58% CF player with Gio.

Brodie is still a top 4 D man I just don't see him as the borderline #1 he was in Hartleys final year.


Also of all of our D men I'm most worried about Hanifin he's been sheltered his entire career and is now being played in a heavy shutdown role and IMO he's not excelling.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Brodie has been significantly better this year, but has had a string egregious turnovers that highlight the negatives.

He's not been perfect. No doubt. He's more or less what we are hoping Kylington turns into, a smooth skating D that unfortunately makes a really bad turnover every once and a while.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Willing to take Brodie's lapses in judgment if it means he puts up numbers. Have no problem with trading some defensive risk-taking for offense when we've already got Giordano, Hammer and Hanifin.

This is the NHL equivalent of a first world problem - fans have been spoiled by a good top four and are now looking for something to complain about. A fast, smart offensive defenseman is not our problem.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Willing to take Brodie's lapses in judgment if it means he puts up numbers. Have no problem with trading some defensive risk-taking for offense when we've already got Giordano, Hammer and Hanifin.

This is the NHL equivalent of a first world problem - fans have been spoiled by a good top four and are now looking for something to complain about. A fast, smart offensive defenseman is not our problem.

And it's really radio hosts trying to find something to talk about on a team that has gotten off to one of their better starts in years.

We're 1 point back of the division lead instead of chasing .500 hockey to start the season. This is a rare feeling.

 

[Tofveve]

Unfortunately, having 6 #1 defencemen locked up for term at a nice cap-friendly deal is just not a realistic scenario, and we need to wrap our heads around that. Brodie probably won't ever be a Norris Trophy defenceman, but neither will most of the defencemen in the league. Most of them are a mixed bag.

It is concerning that Brodie seems to make that one big error every game, but other than that, he makes so many great plays in all three zones, and we never need to worry about him losing a foot-race. On the balance, he's still a guy that helps the team overall. The radio guys sound like they got carried away in an echo-chamber, which is often the case on radio.

I respect Warrener and especially Pinder. Boomer is funny and has some incite once in awhile for being a shmo. I honestly think they were talking in quite a level-headed manner.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Don't really think it's outlandish to say he could be better. It's October, basically the cornered raccoon of hockey months. Wildly unpredictable. A lot of the things he does consistently well are kind of hard to notice. He'll make the occasional gaffe and the occasional incredible play, and has always been that player tbh. You just hope the incredible plays are more pronounced than the gaffes.

What I don't like seeing is how often he's having to reach in on guys, yes he's got a good stick but when you see that he's not using his skating or his body effectively. He'll never be a physical dman but you really can't afford to only rely on stick checks, he's got to take the body when that's the best option presented.

 

[Tofveve]

Don't really think it's outlandish to say he could be better. It's October, basically the cornered raccoon of hockey months. Wildly unpredictable. A lot of the things he does consistently well are kind of hard to notice. He'll make the occasional gaffe and the occasional incredible play, and has always been that player tbh. You just hope the incredible plays are more pronounced than the gaffes.

What I don't like seeing is how often he's having to reach in on guys, yes he's got a good stick but when you see that he's not using his skating or his body effectively. He'll never be a physical dman but you really can't afford to only rely on stick checks, he's got to take the body when that's the best option presented.

I think it was Warrener who said something along the lines of him always playing this way to some degree. He then said something like was it Gio covering for his mistakes back then too.

And regarding his size, I commented several times last year that he plays like he's 2" shorter and 20 lbs lighter than he is. Reaching in, overcommitting etc.

I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[Mobiandi]

Willing to take Brodie's lapses in judgment if it means he puts up numbers. Have no problem with trading some defensive risk-taking for offense when we've already got Giordano, Hammer and Hanifin.

This is the NHL equivalent of a first world problem - fans have been spoiled by a good top four and are now looking for something to complain about. A fast, smart offensive defenseman is not our problem.

Pretty much. We've had a good start, looked great in 6 out of 8 games and even came away with the win in one of those awful games. Our losses from this season are more entertaining than our wins from last season and things are still coming together under Peters.

If our biggest problem is TJ Brodie, you might as well give us the cup now. He looks leaps and bounds more comfortable this season, so why worry in October if he makes a mistake here and there?

 

[JPeeper]

Brodie plays with Gio though last year with worse forwards Hamilton was like a 58% CF player with Gio.

Brodie is still a top 4 D man I just don't see him as the borderline #1 he was in Hartleys final year.


Also of all of our D men I'm most worried about Hanifin he's been sheltered his entire career and is now being played in a heavy shutdown role and IMO he's not excelling.

Disagree with this. Hanifin has been great this year. He is already better defensively than Hamilton and his offence is just waiting to pop.

When I read that sportsnet article on the trade I laughed when I saw them write, "Hanifin could be as good as Hamilton is right now if he reaches his max potential" when referring to his defensive game. Like gtfo, do these people watch the Flames? (no they don't) Hamilton's defensive game was a joke, it took him months to get going every year he was here and I never saw anymore potential in him than what was being shown. Hanifin you see every game that this kid can be a #1 d-man in the league. Elite skating, elite passing, more physical than Dougie ever was, actually shows hustle in the d-zone.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I think it was Warrener who said something along the lines of him always playing this way to some degree. He then said something like was it Gio covering for his mistakes back then too.

And regarding his size, I commented several times last year that he plays like he's 2" shorter and 20 lbs lighter than he is. Reaching in, overcommitting etc.

I guess we'll see what happens.

Yup. Really that's not likely to change. He's made up for it over his career by being faster than the other guy and being able to get in good position quick enough to negate chances. That's why I think the reaching and desperation defense is more concerning than the brainfarts(although I hate those too). Whether or not those are a sign of a further marked decline in play in relation to what he was or just Brodie being a little lazy in the first month of the season I'm not sure.

What I'd like to see him do is lead the rush more often, he's got responsible wingers down that right side now in Lindholm, Frolik, Czarnik, and Neal(maybe not the most reliable, but should at least know when to cover for a dman). His speed and his cross ice passes are what makes him an offensive threat, because honestly he's just not that dangerous from the blueline.

 

[Volica]

When Hammer comes back anyone care to see:

Giordano - Andersson
Hanifin - Hamonic
Valimaki - Teej

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

He had the puck so much he’s bound to make mistakes. He hasn’t been nearly as bad as the media has said.