Player Discussion Time for the Christian Laflamme Trophy

[JC Superstar]

During the 1999-2000 season the Habs slipped all the way to last place. That's the moment Christian Laflamme was waiting for to broadcast to all media and GMs alike that he was not playing enough. Suicidal move if I've ever seen one. He went on to play a few more games for St Louis in the next 3 season, but the damage was done and he never recovered.

Now that Montreal is in last place, who is your bet for the Christian Laflamme trophy given to the player with the guts (or the brain cramp) to broadcast to the hockey world that he can't have ice time on the worst team in the league?

Click to read more...

 

[dcyhabs]

Laflamme was the culmination of a series of trades in which the habs exchanged D for worse D, then traded the guy they picked up for someone worse than that. He wouldn't have been in the NHL if the habs management hadn't been a complete tire fire even with a great attitude.

I'd expect some frustration, and I'm sure we'll have at least one player says something really dumb, what with Montreal media, but I don't think flaming that person is going to help the team in any way.

 

[MasterD]

Armia doesn't need to say anything, paid 4M$ to play the 4th line on the worse team in the league.... He's out of the NHL after this contract

 

[FloJack]

I remember having hopes for Christian Laflamme.

I can’t remember if they were high or not, but there were definite hopes.

 

[MXD]

Laflamme was the culmination of a series of trades in which the habs exchanged D for worse D, then traded the guy they picked up for someone worse than that. He wouldn't have been in the NHL if the habs management hadn't been a complete tire fire even with a great attitude.

I'd expect some frustration, and I'm sure we'll have at least one player says something really dumb, what with Montreal media, but I don't think flaming that person is going to help the team in any way.

Well...
It starts with Stephane Richer. Richer had an awful 95-96 season with the Devils, after leading the said Devils in Regular season and Playoffs scoring for their '95 Cup run. We know today that Richer suffered depression and that he was about to attempt suicide right after the '95 Cup Run. Richer had a somewhat better 96-97 season, but was by then 30 years old.

Traded by the New Jersey Devils to the Montreal Canadiens for Lyle Odelein.

I'm on the fence as to whether this was, in and of itself, a good trade. The Canadiens probably needed Richer and the 96-97 version of Richer could've remained a Hab for a few seasons. Odelein did end up having the longer career, being a super reliable #4 D-Men on a great team, but it's worth noting that his PIMs went way down with the Devils; it's almost like he could focus on his play when he wasn't a main enforcer. The trade made sense in a way, it just didn't play very well for reasons we know today.

Then, Richer...

Traded by the Montreal Canadiens with Darcy Tucker and David Wilkie to the Tampa Bay Lightning for Patrick Poulin, Igor Ulanov and Mick Vukota.

Tucker was underwhelming and annoying as a Hab, but didn't yet blossom. Wilkie wasn't yet a bust - but was nearing that territory - and would end up a bust. Poulin and Ulanov were regular players but ultimately depth parts, but Poulin seemed to be miscast everywhere in the lineup (very bad defensively, not skilled enough for Top-6 duties but nonetheless skilled enough for Top-9 duties, big body but no really a power forward, and also an early bloomer, so he was a bit past his prime at 25). Ulanov was a bruiser who could hit like a serious truck but wasn't great at anything else, but could play a very simple defensive game. I still don't understand how he could be a Top-4 D on a pretty good team (the 00-01 Oilers). Then, Ulanov...

Traded by the Montreal Canadiens with Alain Nasreddine to the Edmonton Oilers for Matthieu Descoteaux and Christian Laflamme.


So, in terms of assets we went from Odelein, Tucker, Brad Brown (the logical counterpart to Nasreddine) and Wilkie to Christian Laflamme, a post-prime Poulin, Matthieu Descoteaux (a first rounder acquired at D+4 who was really suspect when we traded for him) and the corpse of Mick Vukota. By the end of 00-01, all that remained of this is 28 games of Patrick Poulin on the 4th line, which is a worthless asset. Meanwhile, the likes of Tucker and Odelein still had value, and we lost value on Ulanov.

 

[cheeseburgers]

I remember he had a 68 rating or so in NHL 2000 or 2001 video game... used to like trading him for Martin St. Louis who had the same rating

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Armia doesn't need to say anything, paid 4M$ to play the 4th line on the worse team in the league.... He's out of the NHL after this contract

Doubtful.
He brings a lot of good qualities that you would want in a depth player, which will allow him to stay in the nhl for a while

 

[FloJack]

Well...
It starts with Stephane Richer. Richer had an awful 95-96 season with the Devils, after leading the said Devils in Regular season and Playoffs scoring for their '95 Cup run. We know today that Richer suffered depression and that he was about to attempt suicide right after the '95 Cup Run. Richer had a somewhat better 96-97 season, but was by then 30 years old.

Traded by the New Jersey Devils to the Montreal Canadiens for Lyle Odelein.

I'm on the fence as to whether this was, in and of itself, a good trade. The Canadiens probably needed Richer and the 96-97 version of Richer could've remained a Hab for a few seasons. Odelein did end up having the longer career, being a super reliable #4 D-Men on a great team, but it's worth noting that his PIMs went way down with the Devils; it's almost like he could focus on his play when he wasn't a main enforcer. The trade made sense in a way, it just didn't play very well for reasons we know today.

Then, Richer...

Traded by the Montreal Canadiens with Darcy Tucker and David Wilkie to the Tampa Bay Lightning for Patrick Poulin, Igor Ulanov and Mick Vukota.

Tucker was underwhelming and annoying as a Hab, but didn't yet blossom. Wilkie wasn't yet a bust - but was nearing that territory - and would end up a bust. Poulin and Ulanov were regular players but ultimately depth parts, but Poulin seemed to be miscast everywhere in the lineup (very bad defensively, not skilled enough for Top-6 duties but nonetheless skilled enough for Top-9 duties, big body but no really a power forward, and also an early bloomer, so he was a bit past his prime at 25). Ulanov was a bruiser who could hit like a serious truck but wasn't great at anything else, but could play a very simple defensive game. I still don't understand how he could be a Top-4 D on a pretty good team (the 00-01 Oilers). Then, Ulanov...

Traded by the Montreal Canadiens with Alain Nasreddine to the Edmonton Oilers for Matthieu Descoteaux and Christian Laflamme.


So, in terms of assets we went from Odelein, Tucker, Brad Brown (the logical counterpart to Nasreddine) and Wilkie to Christian Laflamme, a post-prime Poulin, Matthieu Descoteaux (a first rounder acquired at D+4 who was really suspect when we traded for him) and the corpse of Mick Vukota. By the end of 00-01, all that remained of this is 28 games of Patrick Poulin on the 4th line, which is a worthless asset. Meanwhile, the likes of Tucker and Odelein still had value, and we lost value on Ulanov.

My favourite memory of Mick Vukota as a Hab was versus the Leafs and Vigneault kept putting him on when Domi was on the ice, for a scrap.

Domi would not fight due to a banged up hand at the time and went full on enforcer prima donna calling out Vigneault after the game, how dare he try to get his enforcer to fight him when his hand was banged up. Domi could not die by the sword he lived by. What a clown.

 

[dcyhabs]

Armia doesn't need to say anything, paid 4M$ to play the 4th line on the worse team in the league.... He's out of the NHL after this contract

Says a lot about MB's cap management and team building. He gave generous contracts to role players and played hardball with the guys driving the team. Even the guys he kept, like Subban and Price, stayed more because of pressure on MB than because he was willing to pay them.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

I'm not into that folks. It's negativity and toxicity.
Have fun between guys and don't count on me for that new bashing-O-rama.

edit. maybe mods could close that thread?
I would if I was a mod.

 

[nilan30]

I remember him now. Isn't he Xavier's uncle?

 

[tazsub3]

I'm not into that folks. It's negativity and toxicity.
Have fun between guys and don't count on me for that new bashing-O-rama.

edit. maybe mods could close that thread?
I would if I was a mod.

Sometime we need to make the best of a bad situation, nothing wrong with having a laugh. When you see the effort a drouin like laflamme (drouin) himself is putting in the ice, he should expect much more from fans.
As hard as Montreal might sound to some, he is lucky he aint playing soccer in a soccer crazed south america, and hard montreal fans would look like angels vs some of those countries.

 

[dcyhabs]

Well...
It starts with Stephane Richer. Richer had an awful 95-96 season with the Devils, after leading the said Devils in Regular season and Playoffs scoring for their '95 Cup run. We know today that Richer suffered depression and that he was about to attempt suicide right after the '95 Cup Run. Richer had a somewhat better 96-97 season, but was by then 30 years old.

Traded by the New Jersey Devils to the Montreal Canadiens for Lyle Odelein.

I'm on the fence as to whether this was, in and of itself, a good trade. The Canadiens probably needed Richer and the 96-97 version of Richer could've remained a Hab for a few seasons. Odelein did end up having the longer career, being a super reliable #4 D-Men on a great team, but it's worth noting that his PIMs went way down with the Devils; it's almost like he could focus on his play when he wasn't a main enforcer. The trade made sense in a way, it just didn't play very well for reasons we know today.

Then, Richer...

Traded by the Montreal Canadiens with Darcy Tucker and David Wilkie to the Tampa Bay Lightning for Patrick Poulin, Igor Ulanov and Mick Vukota.

Tucker was underwhelming and annoying as a Hab, but didn't yet blossom. Wilkie wasn't yet a bust - but was nearing that territory - and would end up a bust. Poulin and Ulanov were regular players but ultimately depth parts, but Poulin seemed to be miscast everywhere in the lineup (very bad defensively, not skilled enough for Top-6 duties but nonetheless skilled enough for Top-9 duties, big body but no really a power forward, and also an early bloomer, so he was a bit past his prime at 25). Ulanov was a bruiser who could hit like a serious truck but wasn't great at anything else, but could play a very simple defensive game. I still don't understand how he could be a Top-4 D on a pretty good team (the 00-01 Oilers). Then, Ulanov...

Traded by the Montreal Canadiens with Alain Nasreddine to the Edmonton Oilers for Matthieu Descoteaux and Christian Laflamme.


So, in terms of assets we went from Odelein, Tucker, Brad Brown (the logical counterpart to Nasreddine) and Wilkie to Christian Laflamme, a post-prime Poulin, Matthieu Descoteaux (a first rounder acquired at D+4 who was really suspect when we traded for him) and the corpse of Mick Vukota. By the end of 00-01, all that remained of this is 28 games of Patrick Poulin on the 4th line, which is a worthless asset. Meanwhile, the likes of Tucker and Odelein still had value, and we lost value on Ulanov.

I guess it wasn't one for one trades. I tend to think of the D they had through the '80s and what it turned into pretty quick due to salary dumps and bad decisions. Stuff like Ludwig for Diduck, Svoboda for Haller, and picking up Dirk. They spent years going after Quintal, not a terrible D, but why target him for years?

Some of those players, notably Laflamme and Dirk, just weren't NHL players and shouldn't ever have been on the NHL team. It showed that the management team had no clue how good the defense was from pretty much the '50s until the mid-'90s. They just didn't realize that the D was really impressive.

 

[MXD]

I guess it wasn't one for one trades. I tend to think of the D they had through the '80s and what it turned into pretty quick due to salary dumps and bad decisions. Stuff like Ludwig for Diduck, Svoboda for Haller, and picking up Dirk. They spent years going after Quintal, not a terrible D, but why target him for years?

Some of those players, notably Laflamme and Dirk, just weren't NHL players and shouldn't ever have been on the NHL team. It showed that the management team had no clue how good the defense was from pretty much the '50s until the mid-'90s. They just didn't realize that the D was really impressive.

Yeah... it went :

Svoboda for Haller
Haller for Racine (who did have a terrific season with Philly but was mostly a guy whose defense was a bit problematic and who could run a decent PP and ended up being fed minutes because the Philly D-Corps was thin; the Canadiens quickly realized he was no better than Brisebois, let alone than Schneider/Malakhov).
Racine to Waivers.

 

[JC Superstar]

I'm not into that folks. It's negativity and toxicity.
Have fun between guys and don't count on me for that new bashing-O-rama.

edit. maybe mods could close that thread?
I would if I was a mod.

You are right, there is some pessimistic irony in a thread like this, a kind of laugh rather then cry stance.

There is also a kind of déjà vu reaction and the hope that players, management and coaches could pull through and have a decent season.

Unfortunately, it's not the first time we are deep in a (fox)hole and we all know what's coming up: recrimations, claiming side players from the waivers, AHL players having a chance they didn't always deserve.

After enduring Dirks, Laflammes and Ulanovs of this world, I just hope every fans could pull through and if memories of past mediocrities can help I say why not?

Just keep the same respect you've shown so far.