Tim Thomas or Roberto Luongo & all goalie trade discussion

Ruski

Registered User
Apr 7, 2009
901
3
Toronto
I'm honestly to tired of typing to respond.

You guys know how I feel.

I know many feel the same way.

I'll jump back in this convo another time (I'll read your response tmrw).


At the end of the day, this type of potential deal will always have groups of fans on either side. If it goes down, we will have to wait years before passing judgement anyway, so have a good night man!

Cheers.
 
Apr 1, 2010
9,715
53
I see the same cutoff for making the playoffs.

It's no different.

You only have to have between 92-94 points.

It's the same.

Really???
How about loking at the other end of the spectrum. Or the WHOLE PICTURE as I have heard realists refer to it as.

in 2012 there were 4 teams with less than 80pts. (and one of those is EDM the next dynasty)
in 2011 ther were 5 team with under 80 pts.
In 2010 there were 5 teams with under 80pts
in 2009 there were 6 teams with under 80 pts.
IN 2008 there were 5 teams with under 80pts.
In 2007 there were 8 teams with less than 80 points.


And in 2006 there were 7. Including 3 future Stanley Cup champions.
Boston 74pts, Chicago 65pts and Pittsburgh with a miserable 58pts.


If you can't see the overall average strength of the league has improved then....:help:
 

4evaBlue

Bottle of Lightning
Jan 9, 2011
4,834
5
Vancouver ownership WILL NOT buyout Luongo. They are not anywhere near the financial position of the Leafs, which is why it makes way more sense for us to take him on for this 1.5 seasons and evaluate after 2013/2014 with an option to buyout then.

Financial position doesn't have much to do with it. Luongo will get another offer if he gets amnestied, which means the Nucks are only on the hook for $1.5M'ish per season (not included in the cap). The Canucks can certainly afford that.

If Luongo doesn't get amnestied, it'll be because Gillis thinks him too valuable of an asset to just let walk. If there are no suckers for that contract, he will have to lower his asking price and/or retain some portion of his salary.
 
Apr 1, 2010
9,715
53
I don't think any Luongo supporters here advocate trading 1st rounders or our core young guys. Bozak, kadri, reimer, macarthur are more likely candidates.

Vancouver ownership WILL NOT buyout Luongo. They are not anywhere near the financial position of the Leafs, which is why it makes way more sense for us to take him on for this 1.5 seasons and evaluate after 2013/2014 with an option to buyout then.

I'm sorry but Helloooooo. that is the price being reported. You willing to give up that for LUongo. Hell no.

As for the buyout. PRobalby won't happen but I would rather give VAN 5 more months to think about it.

Then maybe Kadri comes off the table. At anyrate Luongo will be a damn sight cheaper in JUly than he will be now. Just wait.
 
Apr 1, 2010
9,715
53
Financial position doesn't have much to do with it. Luongo will get another offer if he gets amnestied, which means the Nucks are only on the hook for $1.5M'ish per season (not included in the cap). The Canucks can certainly afford that.

If Luongo doesn't get amnestied, it'll be because Gillis thinks him too valuable of an asset to just let walk. If there are no suckers for that contract, he will have to lower his asking price and/or retain some portion of his salary.

I do agree that a good team defensive philosophy can make a crappy goalie like Mike Smith seem a real starting goalie. Then why does need Lolongo?

Correct and Correct and both posts.

I'd still pay Lu 4M for 4 yrs if he is bought out. That takes a huge bite our of what VAN would owe.

And yes lets see wha tcarlyl's system brings before we go out throwing away our top prospect and our #1 center.
 

Ruski

Registered User
Apr 7, 2009
901
3
Toronto
Financial position doesn't have much to do with it. Luongo will get another offer if he gets amnestied, which means the Nucks are only on the hook for $1.5M'ish per season (not included in the cap). The Canucks can certainly afford that.

If Luongo doesn't get amnestied, it'll be because Gillis thinks him too valuable of an asset to just let walk. If there are no suckers for that contract, he will have to lower his asking price and/or retain some portion of his salary.

Provided Luongo doesn't opt for a sweetheart deal like Vokoun did last year, taking 1mil to play. What does he care, since his pay basically won't change no matter if they buy him out or not.

I think Gillis will make that decision now and not in the off-season but this is just a guess.

Although i am pro Luongo, its only at what i would consider fair cost. None of this kadri + bozak + frattin business. I would do Kardi + avg. prospect or Reimer straight up or Bozak + Macarthur type deals.
 

Ruski

Registered User
Apr 7, 2009
901
3
Toronto
I'm sorry but Helloooooo. that is the price being reported. You willing to give up that for LUongo. Hell no.

As for the buyout. PRobalby won't happen but I would rather give VAN 5 more months to think about it.

Then maybe Kadri comes off the table. At anyrate Luongo will be a damn sight cheaper in JUly than he will be now. Just wait.

I wasn't suggesting Bozak + Kadri + Macarthur + Reimer....just pieces i would negotiate with.

Even, Kadri + Bozak seems rough because they are both centers but are these guys going to lead us anywhere long term? How many smalish centers can this team have?

Grabo has be lights out for us offensively and defensively, earning at-least a shot at the #2 center spot for the next few seasons.

Kadri and Bozak cant both be #1 centers so not tough to let one go if you ask me. Two? ...thats a bit of a strech i agree, but i would wait a few seasons before passing that judgement.

Don't know how widely its been reported but Kadri has had his fair share of off-ice issues. Not getting into it here because i like him as a player and don't want to badmouth anyone but unless his size and strength increase dramatically without speed disappearing, he will have a very hard time becoming an impact NHL player, but may very well turn into a career AHL star.

Anyway, lets see what happens...
 

The Winter Soldier

Registered User
Apr 4, 2011
70,803
21,006
New CBA, any deal with Luongo now post new CBA should be even softer than prior to the lock out. That contract is even worse now than pre lock out. Keep this in mind kids.

Grabo might be an overpayment, who would have thought...Though I would love to pawn off 5.5M from the books.
 

Winreims

Registered User
Dec 31, 2011
1,942
2
If Luongo does go to Florida, I wouldn't mind taking Theodore off their hands for a low price. He'd be a better 1A/1B guy then Scrivens would be at this point. jmo
 

daveleaf

#FIREKEEFE #MIGHTBETIMETOFIRESHANNYTOO
Mar 23, 2010
5,857
538
Canada
This franchise has had historical good returns from older goaltenders. That being said the rumored asking price of Kadri and Bozak is ridiculous. For my money and where this team sits right now I would rather go with a guy like Bernier and Reimer in goal. A stronger team defense will make these guys better and I think Bernier holds some real promise. I ask this. Are the Leafs a top goaltender away from a Stanley Cup? I will say no. Are the Leafs a goalie away from the playoffs? I will answer with maybe. That whole team fell apart last year, not just the goalies. For me I would rather play the kids, make shrewd deals and all these extra vets will be very valuable at trade deadline for teams that 'think' they have a legitimate chance.
 

Chandrashekhar Limit

From the runaway slave to a modern day king.
Apr 2, 2009
18,140
249
Milky Way
Yesterday, I thought that teams can make moves as soon as the CBA is signed upon by both sides, which should be today. But, Bobby Mac recently tweeted that the earliest moves can happen is Saturday, due to what he called MOU. Can anybody explain?
 

ForSpareParts*

Guest
OT: Post Pics of Luongo in a Leafs Uniform

lushop.jpg
 

Bleed Blue and White

Registered User
Oct 4, 2009
294
0
Toronto, Ontario
Yesterday, I thought that teams can make moves as soon as the CBA is signed upon by both sides, which should be today. But, Bobby Mac recently tweeted that the earliest moves can happen is Saturday, due to what he called MOU. Can anybody explain?

To the best of my knowledge and I could be off base on this so someone feel free to correct me but the MOU (Memo of Understanding) is a shortened version of the CBA. It contains all the important major elements of the deal which both sides have to agree on in order to move forward. The full length CBA will probably take weeks to draft onto paper, so this is a working agreement. As for Saturday, the NHL Board of Governors is voting on it today, and the NHL players are having an online vote tomorrow and Friday, meaning that Saturday is the first day movement can happen if all goes as planned.
 

daveleaf

#FIREKEEFE #MIGHTBETIMETOFIRESHANNYTOO
Mar 23, 2010
5,857
538
Canada
To the best of my knowledge and I could be off base on this so someone feel free to correct me but the MOU (Memo of Understanding) is a shortened version of the CBA. It contains all the important major elements of the deal which both sides have to agree on in order to move forward. The full length CBA will probably take weeks to draft onto paper, so this is a working agreement. As for Saturday, the NHL Board of Governors is voting on it today, and the NHL players are having an online vote tomorrow and Friday, meaning that Saturday is the first day movement can happen if all goes as planned.

Thanks for the info!
 

slozo

Registered User
Aug 28, 2011
3,533
730
Newmarket, ON
I have to amend my earlier guess on what the trade will look like between Toronto and Vancouver for Luongo . . . it's gonna have to have Reimer in it, no question from a GM's standpoint. Vancouver needs a back-up, and Toronto will not want Reimer's contract on their hands as a back up who will see very little time - and nor do they want to waste his value as a good 'potential' starter.

bare bones, just for Luongo . . .
To Toronto: Luongo
To Vancouver: Reimer, Kadri, maybe a prospect/2nd rounder

Possible bigger trade with other players coming from Vancouver?
To Toronto: Luongo, Booth
To Vancouver: Reimer, Kadri, Bozak, prospect
 

AndMat*

Guest
I have to amend my earlier guess on what the trade will look like between Toronto and Vancouver for Luongo . . . it's gonna have to have Reimer in it, no question from a GM's standpoint. Vancouver needs a back-up, and Toronto will not want Reimer's contract on their hands as a back up who will see very little time - and nor do they want to waste his value as a good 'potential' starter.

bare bones, just for Luongo . . .
To Toronto: Luongo
To Vancouver: Reimer, Kadri, maybe a prospect/2nd rounder

Possible bigger trade with other players coming from Vancouver?
To Toronto: Luongo, Booth
To Vancouver: Reimer, Kadri, Bozak, prospect

Why would you wanna take so much cap back on DAVID booth that's 4.25 coming back, We only should trade for Luongo and no other cap coming back, with next year free agency coming the more cap space we have the better.

And David booth is Overrated big time
 

hockeyfanz*

Guest
Financial position doesn't have much to do with it. Luongo will get another offer if he gets amnestied, which means the Nucks are only on the hook for $1.5M'ish per season (not included in the cap). The Canucks can certainly afford that.

If Luongo doesn't get amnestied, it'll be because Gillis thinks him too valuable of an asset to just let walk. If there are no suckers for that contract, he will have to lower his asking price and/or retain some portion of his salary.

Love the avatar EvaBlue.....but I get the sinking feeling that greasy Lou is on his way to Leafs Nation...oh boy I hope that all this is just speculation and rumour.
 

achtungbaby

Registered User
Oct 31, 2006
4,792
25
If we trade our first round pick this year all hell will break loose around here... Again!
 

hockeyfanz*

Guest
When your goalies have trouble getting .900 save %, it does make people think goaltending is a big issue...

James Reimer in 2011-12' had a .921 save %, 6th best in the entire NHl. And guess what, they turned their season around.

The Leafs have had the worst goaltending post lockout in the entire NHL.

Really..the Leafs have had some of the worst "a lot of things" post lockout...I guess it at all falls on the shoulders of Raycroft, Belfour, Aubin, Tellqvist, Clemmensen, Toskala, Gerber, Cujo, MacDonald, Gustavsson, Scrivens, Reimer and Giguere.... Either the Leafs have had horrible luck finding decent goalies or there is something more to the story than what most fans claim as being the reason why the Leafs have been so bad.

So when you look at the Leafs roster and compare it to a good team....all you see as being the difference is decent goaltending? Sure.
 

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