Confirmed with Link: Tim Burke promoted to Assistant GM DWJR to Dir. of Scouting

[OrrNumber4]

Right, and the Sharks being a sub-par developmental team definitely hasn’t helped their draft results.

I'm not sure I would grant you that.

The one certain criticism you can make is that the Sharks (and DW especially) tend to rush prospects, getting them on the NHL roster ASAP and promoting them early. Of course, in the cap era, competitive teams push for this to save space, and the Sharks have generally been competitive, but DW does overdo it.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

I'm not sure I would grant you that.

The one certain criticism you can make is that the Sharks (and DW especially) tend to rush prospects, getting them on the NHL roster ASAP and promoting them early. Of course, in the cap era, competitive teams push for this to save space, and the Sharks have generally been competitive, but DW does overdo it.

Can you make that criticism, and is it certain? Outside of Mueller, who was handed the keys to a top 4d role on day one, who else was rushed? I mean a few guys might have got a quick cup of coffee due to injuries and/or to check in on their progress, but I’d hardly say they’re over zealously promoting prospect to the NHL.

 

[hohosaregood]

Can you make that criticism, and is it certain? Outside of Mueller, who was handed the keys to a top 4d role on day one, who else was rushed? I mean a few guys might have got a quick cup of coffee due to injuries and/or to check in on their progress, but I’d hardly say they’re over zealously promoting prospect to the NHL.

Timo wasn't ready his first year and that's the only other recent example I can think of.

 

[Maladroit]

Timo wasn't ready his first year and that's the only other recent example I can think of.

Tierney wasn't really ready his first year either. Or his second year for that matter. Or his third.

 

[AgentCooper]

Tierney wasn't really ready his first year either. Or his second year for that matter. Or his third.

Tierney was awesome that first half-season that he played. He sure looked ready to me.

This idea that the Sharks rush prospects is total revisionist history. Mueller is the outlier, not an example of the norm.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Tierney wasn't really ready his first year either. Or his second year for that matter. Or his third.

Tierney was ready for NHL minutes in all of those years but he wasn’t ready to be a top-9 NHL center.

 

[Maladroit]

Tierney was ready for NHL minutes in all of those years but he wasn’t ready to be a top-9 NHL center.

Yeah this is more the point I was trying to make. Tierney's an NHL player for sure but IMO he's still not a third line center on a legit contender and will never be.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Yeah this is more the point I was trying to make. Tierney's an NHL player for sure but IMO he's still not a third line center on a legit contender and will never be.

Right and I agree with that but I think he’s been an NHL caliber player since he came to the league, the organization just tried to do too much with him.

 

[Maladroit]

Right and I agree with that but I think he’s been an NHL caliber player since he came to the league, the organization just tried to do too much with him.

To me he looked way out of his depth in 2014 but was much better once they called him back up from the AHL in February. I'm still not sure why he was gifted a roster spot out of camp that year when it's not like he ever tore up the OHL or anything. In fairness everything about that season still baffles me.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

To me he looked way out of his depth in 2014 but was much better once they called him back up from the AHL in February. I'm still not sure why he was gifted a roster spot out of camp that year when it's not like he ever tore up the OHL or anything. In fairness everything about that season still baffles me.

In all honesty, the more I look back on that season, the more I feel like what ultimately happened wasn’t that bad. It was obviously a tank for McDavid. And at the end of the day, we factually had exactly a 5% chance at Connor McDavid.

If we could have added 18 year old McDavid to our roster instead of, say, Chris Tierney, then we would have won the Stanley Cup Finals against the Penguins. And we would also have a franchise center for the next 20 years and we would be the best team in the NHL right now.

The big mistake was when we still ended up with a top-10 pick, high enough to select a potential franchise center in Mathew Barzal, and we made our classic safe pick in Meier.

 

[Maladroit]

In all honesty, the more I look back on that season, the more I feel like what ultimately happened wasn’t that bad. It was obviously a tank for McDavid. And at the end of the day, we factually had exactly a 5% chance at Connor McDavid.

If we could have added 18 year old McDavid to our roster instead of, say, Chris Tierney, then we would have won the Stanley Cup Finals against the Penguins. And we would also have a franchise center for the next 20 years and we would be the best team in the NHL right now.

The big mistake was when we still ended up with a top-10 pick, high enough to select a potential franchise center in Mathew Barzal, and we made our classic safe pick in Meier.

Yeah it would have all been more than worth it if we'd drafted Barzal. Too bad. I still think it was dumb we didn't just return the exact same team from 2013-14. That was one of the best Sharks teams ever and was probably better than the eventual champion 2015 Blackhawks.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I would argue that it was a mistake to pull Labanc up to the NHL before he completed a full AHL season.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Yeah it would have all been more than worth it if we'd drafted Barzal. Too bad. I still think it was dumb we didn't just return the exact same team from 2013-14. That was one of the best Sharks teams ever and was probably better than the eventual champion 2015 Blackhawks.

I would tank for 2 years if the only thing that came out of it was Barzal.

That 2013-2014 team was beast. Quite honestly, they may have been the GOAT Sharks team. They weare dominating the eventual Cup Champions until their #1D got injured.

 

[Alwalys]

wait who didnt we return from 2013-14? just boyle right?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

wait who didnt we return from 2013-14? just boyle right?

Forward Burns
Deters

Probably a few other depth players since we gave all that NHL time to Mueller, John Scott, Tierney, Goodrow, etc.

 

[Alwalys]

i thought demers was traded after the season sucked already

 

[OrrNumber4]

Can you make that criticism, and is it certain? Outside of Mueller, who was handed the keys to a top 4d role on day one, who else was rushed? I mean a few guys might have got a quick cup of coffee due to injuries and/or to check in on their progress, but I’d hardly say they’re over zealously promoting prospect to the NHL.

Under Lombardi, Sharks prospects marinated forever, but since then, you have Michalek, Bernier, Gorges, Carle, Vlasic, Torrey Mitchell, Setoguchi, Demers, Wingels, Tierney, Labanc, Meier....who were rushed. Heck, even players like Pavelski, Couture, and Hertl were rushed, but they were able to handle it.

Probably as a cost-saving measure, the Sharks seem very willing to let young players completely prove themselves in college or juniors before going pro. But once the players go pro, they rarely even get half an AHL season before they are on the big club, and often with big minutes.

 

[Maladroit]

wait who didnt we return from 2013-14? just boyle right?

Burns at forward was the big one, plus Boyle, Demers was traded like a month into the following season. And then Havlat and Stuart who they were probably right to move on from but both were useful players on the 13-14 squad.

Under Lombardi, Sharks prospects marinated forever, but since then, you have Michalek, Bernier, Gorges, Carle, Vlasic, Torrey Mitchell, Setoguchi, Demers, Wingels, Tierney, Labanc, Meier....who were rushed. Heck, even players like Pavelski, Couture, and Hertl were rushed, but they were able to handle it.

Probably as a cost-saving measure, the Sharks seem very willing to let young players completely prove themselves in college or juniors before going pro. But once the players go pro, they rarely even get half an AHL season before they are on the big club, and often with big minutes.

Wingels was rushed? He broke into the NHL at 23. In what universe is that rushing a prospect? Couture was a top ten pick who didn't make his NHL debut until age 20 and was still a rookie at 21. Same with Setoguchi. You seem to be under the impression that players need to marinate until they're 25, which is literally past their peak age. You're missing out on the best seasons of these players' careers if you don't play them in the league by 21.

 

[Used As A Shield]

Under Lombardi, Sharks prospects marinated forever, but since then, you have Michalek, Bernier, Gorges, Carle, Vlasic, Torrey Mitchell, Setoguchi, Demers, Wingels, Tierney, Labanc, Meier....who were rushed. Heck, even players like Pavelski, Couture, and Hertl were rushed, but they were able to handle it.

Probably as a cost-saving measure, the Sharks seem very willing to let young players completely prove themselves in college or juniors before going pro. But once the players go pro, they rarely even get half an AHL season before they are on the big club, and often with big minutes.

Might have to do with how bad the barracuda and Worcester sharks were under Sommer?

 

[WTFetus]

Couture and Pavelski 100% weren't rushed into the NHL. They were dominant in the AHL and obviously didn't belong there anymore.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Wingels was rushed? He broke into the NHL at 23. In what universe is that rushing a prospect? Couture was a top ten pick who didn't make his NHL debut until age 20 and was still a rookie at 21. Same with Setoguchi. You seem to be under the impression that players need to marinate until they're 25, which is literally past their peak age. You're missing out on the best seasons of these players' careers if you don't play them in the league by 21.

With Wingels, I was talking about his promotion off the fourth line.

Couture and Pavelski 100% weren't rushed into the NHL. They were dominant in the AHL and obviously didn't belong there anymore.

I didn't use the proper words. I think that DW's bar for "ready" was (is?) so low that Couture, Hertl, and Pavelski would have been given NHL spots even with a less impressive track record.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

In general, what Sharks prospects did we ruin by rushing? Pretty much every player we’ve drafted in the past decade is either currently playing for the Sharks, or they’re a mostly useless depth player. The only guy I can think of that used to be in our organization that I would really want to bring back would be Yanni Gourde.

 

[hohosaregood]

We ruined Hertl by rushing him.

 

[Lebanezer]

We ruined Hertl by rushing him.

Dustin Brown ruined Hertl by rushing him.

 

[hohosaregood]

Dustin Brown ruined Hertl by rushing him.

Same thing.