Confirmed with Link: Tierney re-signs to 2 year deal 2.9375 AAV

[Pinkfloyd]

Hertl or Thornton depending on the hot hand. Although I'm one of the few people on this board who think Hertl is more effective as a Winger then a Center, especially when paired with Thornton.

If Hertl is on Thornton's wing, you have no 3C. And in reality, if Hertl is on Thornton's wing then you have no effective 2C because Couture is actually more effective these days on the wing.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think 2 is more likely than 1.

I don't think they could seriously contend for Seguin next offseason after all of these huge contracts, which sucks because this team badly needs a top center.

I was trying to be positive and going to say that it could work but then I looked at capfriendly for the 2019-20 season. Yah, does not look very promising.

 

[Nighthock]

So basically our entire offseason is overpaying a bunch of dudes to stay here... brilliant.

One of the most frustrating offseasons yet. God dammit.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I was trying to be positive and going to say that it could work but then I looked at capfriendly for the 2019-20 season. Yah, does not look very promising.

I think it's going to be pretty easy for them to contend for Tyler Seguin if he gets to that point. They have plenty of room and plenty of flexibility.

 

[Maladroit]

You'd simply cut ties with Tierney with the hopes you could land a Fehr type replacement for the $$ you want vs holding onto a tradeable asset that has value? That's terrible asset management.

These were the only Comparisons I could find. Seems on par with Andreas.

Name	Satus	Age	GP	G	A	P	PM	TOI	Previous CH	Cap Hit	When
227. Chris Tierney	RFA [TBODY] [/TBODY]	24	81	17	23	40	1	16:01	$735,000	$2,937,500	Signed This Year
208. Radek Faksa	RFA [TBODY] [/TBODY]	24	78	17	16	33	22	15:14	$2,200,000	$2,200,000	Signed Last Year
233. Andreas Athanasiou	RFA [TBODY] [/TBODY]	23	70	16	17	33	-15	15:18	$1,387,500	$3,000,000	Signed This Year

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This makes me feel even worse about the deal. Faksa and Athanasiou are significantly better players than Tierney. Faksa just turned in a Selke-caliber season and Athanasiou is probably the second fastest skater in the NHL.

Anyway it doesn't really matter as long as Doug finds a way to move Tierney before it becomes obvious he's a 20 point 4C who had a fluke season. Needs to happen by November I think.

 

[Led Zappa]

This makes me feel even worse about the deal. Faksa and Athanasiou are significantly better players than Tierney. Faksa just turned in a Selke-caliber season and Athanasiou is probably the second fastest skater in the NHL.

Anyway it doesn't really matter as long as Doug finds a way to move Tierney before it becomes obvious he's a 20 point 4C who had a fluke season. Needs to happen by November I think.

Let's see what Faksa gets next year before you feel to bad about the price. You can feel bad now that Tierny isn't a Sleke-caliber player.

And speed rarely translates into higher pay. It's all about them points

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This makes me feel even worse about the deal. Faksa and Athanasiou are significantly better players than Tierney. Faksa just turned in a Selke-caliber season and Athanasiou is probably the second fastest skater in the NHL.

Anyway it doesn't really matter as long as Doug finds a way to move Tierney before it becomes obvious he's a 20 point 4C who had a fluke season. Needs to happen by November I think.

You seem to find ways to be upset with deals regardless. Tierney's not going to sag down to a 20 point 4C level. There's not enough evidence to suggest that will happen. So long as DeBoer doesn't play Labanc with Tierney, I expect Tierney to be a 30 point player. He probably won't have a 40 point season again but if he consistently comes in the 30 point range then it's easily an acceptable deal. The idea that it needs to happen by November is laughable. They may end up trading him because he's an easy candidate for a hockey trade just like Labanc is but they're in no way in a position where they have to deal Tierney let alone by November. That is just ludicrous.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think it's going to be pretty easy for them to contend for Tyler Seguin if he gets to that point. They have plenty of room and plenty of flexibility.

Could it be done, sure. I would not exactly call it easy though.

We have 21.9M available and we need to fill in 7 F and 1 D spot. Lets just say 22M. The current players that are due up for new contracts.

Donskoi (UFA)
Meier (RFA)
Labanc (RFA)
Pavs (UFA)
Thornton (UFA)

I am thinking that we can re-sign Donskoi (4.5M), Meier (2.5M), Labanc (2M). That leaves 13M. If we re-sign Pavs, the least he gets is 6M AAV. I would not be surprised if he gets more. That leaves us at 7M with still needing to re-sign 3 more forwards and 1 more D-man. I know the cap will rise a little bit too (2-3M), but even then it is going to be a struggle to make it work.

 

[Maladroit]

You seem to find ways to be upset with deals regardless. Tierney's not going to sag down to a 20 point 4C level. There's not enough evidence to suggest that will happen. So long as DeBoer doesn't play Labanc with Tierney, I expect Tierney to be a 30 point player. He probably won't have a 40 point season again but if he consistently comes in the 30 point range then it's easily an acceptable deal. The idea that it needs to happen by November is laughable. They may end up trading him because he's an easy candidate for a hockey trade just like Labanc is but they're in no way in a position where they have to deal Tierney let alone by November. That is just ludicrous.

Tierney has been a 20ish point 4th line center his entire career save for the first half of last season. There's objectively way more evidence to suggest that's what he really is as opposed to the 40 point scorer being the real Tierney. Even if he scores 30 points he's not worth this contract by virtue of being terrible at pretty much everything else. He's one of our worst possession forwards and he inexplicably gets tons of PK time despite not being good at it. Labanc is younger, vastly more talented and given his lack of arbitration rights in line for a lower salary than Tierney's next summer. He should absolutely not be seen as a similar level asset to Tierney.

I'm upset with a lot of the deals Doug signed this summer because they were very bad. Kane and DeMelo were completely unnecessary, Hertl was an overpay, Couture's contract is gonna look really ugly but at least in that case you pretty much have to keep him so I get it. The quality of Tierney's contract is entirely contingent on whether we can ship him off somewhere before it becomes obvious he's really just a fourth line center.

 

[STL Shark]

Tierney has been a 20ish point 4th line center his entire career save for the first half of last season.

BECAUSE HE WAS PLAYING WITH OTHER 4TH LINERS ON A 4TH LINE! I don't find it to be that hard of a concept that if Tierney was playing as the 4C with guys like John Scott, Micheal Haley, Mike Brown, and Joel Ward for his first 3 years that his scoring was down at a 4th line level. He got bumped to the 3C role this year with linemates that actually belonged in the NHL and his scoring went up considerably. It's a crazy concept, I know.

Is he overpaid by about $400k? Sure. Is that $400k going to really hinder his trade value or the team's ability to go out and make the moves they need to make? Nope.

 

[Gilligans Island]

If we sign a Seguin, then some of those players probably aren't getting re-signed like Donskoi and Pavs(especially at that cap figure

 

[Maladroit]

BECAUSE HE WAS PLAYING WITH OTHER 4TH LINERS ON A 4TH LINE! I don't find it to be that hard of a concept that if Tierney was playing as the 4C with guys like John Scott, Micheal Haley, Mike Brown, and Joel Ward for his first 3 years that his scoring was down at a 4th line level. He got bumped to the 3C role this year with linemates that actually belonged in the NHL and his scoring went up considerably. It's a crazy concept, I know.

Is he overpaid by about $400k? Sure. Is that $400k going to really hinder his trade value or the team's ability to go out and make the moves they need to make? Nope.

He barely played any time with Scott or Haley. His linemates before this season were mostly guys like Goodrow, Wingels, Nieto, Karlsson, Labanc, Meier, Sorensen, etc. all of whom are better players than Tierney except for maybe Karlsson. It's not about how much he's overpaid by, it's about the fact that we already have Suomela signed for less than a million who can do Tierney's job better than he can. As @Fistfullofbeer laid out, this deal absolutely hinders our ability to go after a player like Tyler Seguin in free agency next summer when compounded with similar dumb contracts Doug Wilson has handed out to replaceable depth players like Karlsson, Dillon and Braun. It's not big enough to hinder his trade value though so I hope that's the direction this goes.

 

[rangerssharks414]

If we sign a Seguin, then some of those players probably aren't getting re-signed like Donskoi and Pavs(especially at that cap figure

I highly doubt that they let Pavelski walk.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Could it be done, sure. I would not exactly call it easy though.

View attachment 130701

We have 21.9M available and we need to fill in 7 F and 1 D spot. Lets just say 22M. The current players that are due up for new contracts.

Donskoi (UFA)
Meier (RFA)
Labanc (RFA)
Pavs (UFA)
Thornton (UFA)

I am thinking that we can re-sign Donskoi (4.5M), Meier (2.5M), Labanc (2M). That leaves 13M. If we re-sign Pavs, the least he gets is 6M AAV. I would not be surprised if he gets more. That leaves us at 7M with still needing to re-sign 3 more forwards and 1 more D-man. I know the cap will rise a little bit too (2-3M), but even then it is going to be a struggle to make it work.

None of those guys are guys that you sign before you figure out what you're doing with Seguin. Donskoi and Pavelski are both guys this team can let walk to free agency and replace if Seguin is coming on board. The others are RFA's that can wait. One that you are missing is Joakim Ryan and he will need a new contract but that doesn't change the point. With the talent that the Sharks have coming in, they're able to approach it like that and move guys if others they brought in show they can hack it when they get the opportunity. We're going to know by next off-season whether guys like Suomela, Radil, and Praplan can go here. We're also probably going to see guys like Gambrell, Letunov, and Balcers get an opportunity to show themselves as well. And if I have to let Pavelski and Donskoi go to bring in Seguin, that's what I'm going to do and I'm going to give all those guys an opportunity or an advanced role. All of that would be very easy to do and it opens up the possibility that they move someone like Tierney and Karlsson. It's not going to be much of a struggle when you realize that you don't commit to anyone else before Seguin's status is known.

Tierney has been a 20ish point 4th line center his entire career save for the first half of last season. There's objectively way more evidence to suggest that's what he really is as opposed to the 40 point scorer being the real Tierney. Even if he scores 30 points he's not worth this contract by virtue of being terrible at pretty much everything else. He's one of our worst possession forwards and he inexplicably gets tons of PK time despite not being good at it. Labanc is younger, vastly more talented and given his lack of arbitration rights in line for a lower salary than Tierney's next summer. He should absolutely not be seen as a similar level asset to Tierney.

I'm upset with a lot of the deals Doug signed this summer because they were very bad. Kane and DeMelo were completely unnecessary, Hertl was an overpay, Couture's contract is gonna look really ugly but at least in that case you pretty much have to keep him so I get it. The quality of Tierney's contract is entirely contingent on whether we can ship him off somewhere before it becomes obvious he's really just a fourth line center.

His entire career was two and a half seasons. He was asked to do better and did. Players at his age take steps sometimes to become better players. The only way that you can say there's objectively more evidence to suggest that is if you completely ignore player progression as a thing for players his age. That would be intellectually dishonest. Tierney is not terribly at pretty much everything else. He's shown to be a reliable PK'er even when you account for him not being so good at it in the Vegas series. He does more than enough as a 3C to justify this contract even just producing 30 points a year on it. If he's regularly playing with Donskoi and Meier on the 3rd line, I think he'd be fine from a possession standpoint and no Labanc is not vastly more talented. Hertl wasn't an overpay either. Your take on Tierney's contract is laughable. At the worst, they don't trade him, he tanks, and they walk from him in two years. Who gives a damn about that? That's hardly going to prevent the team from doing anything. Chances are he levels out to be a 25-30 point 3C who PK's well which is what he does normally do. That's fine. It's replaceable for sure and if you can move him for assets that make you better of course you do it but it's not going to be some albatross and it's not going to handcuff them and they're not going to be in a position where they should feel pressed to move him. That's just silly and there's nothing to suggest that to be the case.

 

[Maladroit]

None of those guys are guys that you sign before you figure out what you're doing with Seguin. Donskoi and Pavelski are both guys this team can let walk to free agency and replace if Seguin is coming on board. The others are RFA's that can wait. One that you are missing is Joakim Ryan and he will need a new contract but that doesn't change the point. With the talent that the Sharks have coming in, they're able to approach it like that and move guys if others they brought in show they can hack it when they get the opportunity. We're going to know by next off-season whether guys like Suomela, Radil, and Praplan can go here. We're also probably going to see guys like Gambrell, Letunov, and Balcers get an opportunity to show themselves as well. And if I have to let Pavelski and Donskoi go to bring in Seguin, that's what I'm going to do and I'm going to give all those guys an opportunity or an advanced role. All of that would be very easy to do and it opens up the possibility that they move someone like Tierney and Karlsson. It's not going to be much of a struggle when you realize that you don't commit to anyone else before Seguin's status is known.



His entire career was two and a half seasons. He was asked to do better and did. Players at his age take steps sometimes to become better players. The only way that you can say there's objectively more evidence to suggest that is if you completely ignore player progression as a thing for players his age. That would be intellectually dishonest. Tierney is not terribly at pretty much everything else. He's shown to be a reliable PK'er even when you account for him not being so good at it in the Vegas series. He does more than enough as a 3C to justify this contract even just producing 30 points a year on it. If he's regularly playing with Donskoi and Meier on the 3rd line, I think he'd be fine from a possession standpoint and no Labanc is not vastly more talented. Hertl wasn't an overpay either. Your take on Tierney's contract is laughable. At the worst, they don't trade him, he tanks, and they walk from him in two years. Who gives a damn about that? That's hardly going to prevent the team from doing anything. Chances are he levels out to be a 25-30 point 3C who PK's well which is what he does normally do. That's fine. It's replaceable for sure and if you can move him for assets that make you better of course you do it but it's not going to be some albatross and it's not going to handcuff them and they're not going to be in a position where they should feel pressed to move him. That's just silly and there's nothing to suggest that to be the case.

You're totally right, "player progression" is why Tierney, who has never been a notable goal scorer at any level, shot nearly 15% this year on the back of four empty net goals. That's sustainable age-related player development that definitely won't regress next season. You're also completely right that every other GM is lined up around the block on Santa Clara Street to take on Doug Wilson's inflated contracts for depth players without sending salary back the other way. Who wouldn't want fourth liners like Tierney and Karlsson at the discounted rate of $2 and $3 million dollars or a third pairing defenseman like Dillon for even more than that. Every other NHL team exists to do the Sharks favors so they can sign Tyler Seguin.

I'm loling at "25 point 3C" as if that's an acceptable level for your third line center to be at if you have the slighest of Cup aspirations.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He barely played any time with Scott or Haley. His linemates before this season were mostly guys like Goodrow, Wingels, Nieto, Karlsson, Labanc, Meier, Sorensen, etc. all of whom are better players than Tierney except for maybe Karlsson. It's not about how much he's overpaid by, it's about the fact that we already have Suomela signed for less than a million who can do Tierney's job better than he can. As @Fistfullofbeer laid out, this deal absolutely hinders our ability to go after a player like Tyler Seguin in free agency next summer when compounded with similar dumb contracts Doug Wilson has handed out to replaceable depth players like Karlsson, Dillon and Braun. It's not big enough to hinder his trade value though so I hope that's the direction this goes.

Wait what? Goodrow, Wingels, Nieto, Labanc, and Sorensen are all better players than Tierney? The idea that Suomela can do what Tierney does better is completely unproven. The idea that his deal prevents them from doing anything is not based in reality. He is so easily movable as are Karlsson, Dillon, and Braun. Even if they have to take less than what they want, all those players are tradeable at their current rates.

 

[Maladroit]

Wait what? Goodrow, Wingels, Nieto, Labanc, and Sorensen are all better players than Tierney? The idea that Suomela can do what Tierney does better is completely unproven. The idea that his deal prevents them from doing anything is not based in reality. He is so easily movable as are Karlsson, Dillon, and Braun. Even if they have to take less than what they want, all those players are tradeable at their current rates.

I love this. You think Vlasic wouldn't have received a significant haul in a trade last summer but honestly believe GMs are lined up to take on our inflated contracts for depth players. No one is trading for Karlsson or Dillon without sending salary back. Tierney can be moved right now but when it becomes obvious he's just a fourth line center no one is taking that player on for $3mil a year.

 

[Mattb124]

He barely played any time with Scott or Haley. His linemates before this season were mostly guys like Goodrow, Wingels, Nieto, Karlsson, Labanc, Meier, Sorensen, etc. all of whom are better players than Tierney except for maybe Karlsson. It's not about how much he's overpaid by, it's about the fact that we already have Suomela signed for less than a million who can do Tierney's job better than he can. As @Fistfullofbeer laid out, this deal absolutely hinders our ability to go after a player like Tyler Seguin in free agency next summer when compounded with similar dumb contracts Doug Wilson has handed out to replaceable depth players like Karlsson, Dillon and Braun. It's not big enough to hinder his trade value though so I hope that's the direction this goes.

There are questions about Suomela's ability to be effective with the physicality at the NHL level given his performance in International tournaments. I'd wait to see if Suomela can actually perform at the NHL level before anointing him a better 3C than Tierney.

 

[Maladroit]

There are questions about Suomela's ability to be effective with the physicality at the NHL level given his performance in International tournaments. I'd wait to see if Suomela can actually perform at the NHL level before anointing him a better 3C than Tierney.

You're seriously evaluating Suomela's NHL readiness based on four World Championship games instead of the 100+ Liiga games over the past two seasons that indicate he's a 40 point scorer at worst in the NHL?

Suomela is no guarantee but he's a great bet to be a productive third line center right away and if he doesn't work out, it's not like what Tierney brings to the table is impossible to replace for cheaper elsewhere.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You're totally right, "player progression" is why Tierney, who has never been a notable goal scorer at any level, shot nearly 15% this year on the back of four empty net goals. That's sustainable age-related player development that definitely won't regress next season. You're also completely right that every other GM is lined up around the block on Santa Clara Street to take on Doug Wilson's inflated contracts for depth players without sending salary back the other way. Who wouldn't want fourth liners like Tierney and Karlsson at the discounted rate of $2 and $3 million dollars or a third pairing defenseman like Dillon for even more than that. Every other NHL team exists to do the Sharks favors so they can sign Tyler Seguin.

I'm loling at "25 point 3C" as if that's an acceptable level for your third line center to be at if you have the slighest of Cup aspirations.

Even if Tierney shot his career average last year minus the empty netters, he'd have scored 12 goals and had 35 points. Why should I be all that concerned about his shooting percentage being some huge thing that will tank his production? You just saw DW a month ago move Boedker for draft picks who has a worse cap hit by a significant margin than anyone else left that's seemingly a high priced depth piece. They are not difficult to move. If Tierney was legitimately the 4th liner you think he is, teams would love to have a 20-30 point 4th liner that will kill penalties. But in reality, he's a 24 year old solid 3C with room to round out his game to be more consistent. Lots of teams will take a flier on a player like that. Even if Karlsson couldn't be moved when the Sharks could easily make that happen by either tagging a pick with him to take a slightly worse pick back, retaining salary, or just flat out buying him out to save 1.3 million, they could bury Karlsson in the minors and save a million that way. I fail to see how that is some debilitating issue to get bent out of shape over. Guys like Dillon are dealt routinely and DW has shown in the past he can move players like Dillon when he moved Murray and Stuart for draft picks who were both demonstrably worse than Dillon is right now. The Sens did us a favor to try and sign Tavares. Why don't you think that a team like Carolina or any other team that regularly has openings in their 3C spots or their 3rd pairing wouldn't trade a late pick or a nothing prospect for that depth? It happens quite frequently.

As for 25 point 3C comment, way to immediately take it out of context since I specifically typed 25-30 points. Then I'll point you to Lars Eller who was at 25 points just the season prior to this one before then having a 38 point campaign this season before their team went on to win the Cup and tell you to calm down. Players, especially depth ones, will fluctuate their production from season to season. Eller isn't exactly on another level from Tierney.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I love this. You think Vlasic wouldn't have received a significant haul in a trade last summer but honestly believe GMs are lined up to take on our inflated contracts for depth players. No one is trading for Karlsson or Dillon without sending salary back. Tierney can be moved right now but when it becomes obvious he's just a fourth line center no one is taking that player on for $3mil a year.

Expecting anyone with a full clause to go for a haul is not reasonable in the slightest. And you can slant the depth players' contracts all you like but there's a significant amount of evidence that shows players like them getting moved around. If DW can find a way to move Boedker like he did, he can easily find a way to move Karlsson or Dillon. Karlsson is making 2 million. Sending salary back in that instance can include a league minimum player and it would be fine for both sides and still not a hindrance to doing anything. Dillon is an effective 3rd pairing d-man at just north of 3 million. That's about the going rate for a proven effective player in that role. Again, hardly a hindrance to anything. And if Tierney proves that he's just a 4th line center, then they can just ride it out and let him go or they buy him out and have a sub-500k cap hit on him. Big damn deal.

 

[Mattb124]

You're seriously evaluating Suomela's NHL readiness based on four World Championship games instead of the 100+ Liiga games over the past two seasons that indicate he's a 40 point scorer at worst in the NHL?

Suomela is no guarantee but he's a great bet to be a productive third line center right away and if he doesn't work out, it's not like what Tierney brings to the table is impossible to replace for cheaper elsewhere.

Based on international play and playoff performances, where last year he was .5 ppg (admittedly small sample) versus being 1+ ppg in the RS. Time will tell if the narrative of him fading when the competition ratchets up is valid, but the fact of the matter is he is unproven and suggesting he is a better than 3C than Tierney is largely baseless. Regardless, Wilson would be foolish to have parted with Tierney based on the assumption Suomela will pan out as the 3C.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Strange the Sharks haven't announced the deal yet. Especially since the contract has already been confirmed by Capfriendly.

This is exactly what happened with Mike Hoffman when we traded for him.

 

[Lebanezer]

This is exactly what happened with Mike Hoffman when we traded for him.

Yeah, it makes you wonder...

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

None of those guys are guys that you sign before you figure out what you're doing with Seguin. Donskoi and Pavelski are both guys this team can let walk to free agency and replace if Seguin is coming on board. The others are RFA's that can wait. One that you are missing is Joakim Ryan and he will need a new contract but that doesn't change the point. With the talent that the Sharks have coming in, they're able to approach it like that and move guys if others they brought in show they can hack it when they get the opportunity. We're going to know by next off-season whether guys like Suomela, Radil, and Praplan can go here. We're also probably going to see guys like Gambrell, Letunov, and Balcers get an opportunity to show themselves as well. And if I have to let Pavelski and Donskoi go to bring in Seguin, that's what I'm going to do and I'm going to give all those guys an opportunity or an advanced role. All of that would be very easy to do and it opens up the possibility that they move someone like Tierney and Karlsson. It's not going to be much of a struggle when you realize that you don't commit to anyone else before Seguin's status is known.

I think you make losing Pavs and Donskoi sound way too simple. Sure. It can be done but there is the inherent risk that while waiting on Seguin to decide his destination you end up losing both Pavs and Donskoi and still not landing Seguin.

Would I be ok losing both Pavs and Donskoi for Seguin? Without a doubt. But if I were a GM, I would not put all my eggs in the Seguin basket. Especially after the way the Tavares situation went down.