Thoughts on Tyler Bozak?

[shpongle falls]

He's meh. If we could trade him for something that would be fine with me, but if not it's fine.

Pretty much agree. A bit overpaid but it's nice to have that extra depth up the middle, solid player.

 

[Renard]

He's meh. If we could trade him for something that would be fine with me, but if not it's fine.

That's how I feel about it. I suppose he will do as a second line center until Thomas learns the ropes.

 

[m1a2lt]

I’m not a big fan of right handed Berglund. Not sure why we traded Berglund away and signed someone who scores less, plays worse defensively, and costs more. I know it was a panic move by Army because he thought he wasn’t going to get RoR but still. Anyway, woulda, coulda, shoulda...

As for Bozak; feel he is exposed when he moves above the third line and he does have the anchor that is Steen on his line (why couldn’t we have sent Steen to BUF instead of Bergs?).

Anyway, not a fan.

 

[m1a2lt]

While the Bozak signing hasn’t gone perfectly, I also don’t regret it. I viewed him as a replacement for Sobotka, and man oh man is he better hen Sobotka.

Regardless of number, I see him as a replacement for Berglund and he has not played better here than Berglund.

 

[542365]

The bolded, really? He has been okay at best, defensively. I don't see a lot of hustle from him in his own zone. Perhaps because I tend to focus on players defensive abilities, his shortcomings might be exaggerated in my eyes. This is the only reason I can think of as to why our evaluations differ. I didn't like the Bozak signing when it happened and I still don't. I mean, if you don't score, don't hit and don't defend, what do you do? 5m+ at 3 yrs is a lot to pay for a face-off specialist, and ROR is better at it.

Well, nothing, but that doesn't describe Bozak at all. He's given us 2nd line production for second line pay while largely playing with anchors. He's also been great on the faceoffs and fine defensively. I don't think he's been amazing, but saying he's just a faceoff specialist for 5M is disingenuous. On pace for 41 points. Points per game among forwards with at least 30 games played puts him as the 169th most productive forward in the league, second line production. 5M for a second liner is pretty much the going rate for UFAs. Don't have a problem with it at all.

 

[The Note]

I think he’s been fine and does add some nice depth down the middle. I think a Schwartz-Bozak-Thomas line would be a pretty excellent second line.

 

[Brian39]

I know I do this a bunch on this board, but I still think there are way too many people who have wildly unrealistic expectations regarding point totals from various spots in the lineup.

Bozak is one of 7 NHL forwards who currently has 25 points. That's good for somewhere between 175th and 181st in scoring among NHL forwards. With 31 NHL teams, that means that there are 186 "top 6" forwards in the NHL. His scoring totals put him right at the low end of a top 6 forward in production or at the very upper end of 3rd line production. His 20 even strength points put him in a 14 way tie somewhere between 173 and 186. Any way you cut it, he is producing exactly like a 2nd/3rd line tweener should. And guess what? That's exactly how he is being utilized by the Blues. He is 7th among Blues forwards in both even strength TOI per game and overall TOI per game. His 2 most common line mates are Steen and Maroon (Schwartz is 3rd and will likely overtake one of those 2 soon). He's a 3rd liner here that is asked to slide into 2nd line duty as injuries dictate and he is producing like a low end 2nd liner.

I don't think Bozak finishes that contract in St. Louis. We can afford it next year (barring a major acquisition or two), but probably can't in the last year of the deal. If he keeps up this level of play, that will be a positive value contract when we go to move it. But until then, having him as a quality middle 6 center is a nice luxury. The 17-21-20 line has looked like a good 2nd line during this win streak and Bozak has 7 points in his last 11 games since the Perron injury caused him to slide up into a 2nd line role.

I firmly believe that anyone complaining about Bozak's production is largely doing so due to unrealistic expectations. He produces like a 2nd/3rd line tweener when used in that role and like a good 2nd liner when used in that role. I think his defensive play has been somewhere between adequate and above NHL average this year and he has been doing a decent job on the PK.

My only complaint with Bozak has been his PP production, but I still think that the PP is a disaster from a system/coaching standpoint, so I'm not ready to blame Bozak for that.

 

[MissouriMook]

I know I do this a bunch on this board, but I still think there are way too many people who have wildly unrealistic expectations regarding point totals from various spots in the lineup.

Bozak is one of 7 NHL forwards who currently has 25 points. That's good for somewhere between 175th and 181st in scoring among NHL forwards. With 31 NHL teams, that means that there are 186 "top 6" forwards in the NHL. His scoring totals put him right at the low end of a top 6 forward in production or at the very upper end of 3rd line production. His 20 even strength points put him in a 14 way tie somewhere between 173 and 186. Any way you cut it, he is producing exactly like a 2nd/3rd line tweener should. And guess what? That's exactly how he is being utilized by the Blues. He is 7th among Blues forwards in both even strength TOI per game and overall TOI per game. His 2 most common line mates are Steen and Maroon (Schwartz is 3rd and will likely overtake one of those 2 soon). He's a 3rd liner here that is asked to slide into 2nd line duty as injuries dictate and he is producing like a low end 2nd liner.

I don't think Bozak finishes that contract in St. Louis. We can afford it next year (barring a major acquisition or two), but probably can't in the last year of the deal. If he keeps up this level of play, that will be a positive value contract when we go to move it. But until then, having him as a quality middle 6 center is a nice luxury. The 17-21-20 line has looked like a good 2nd line during this win streak and Bozak has 7 points in his last 11 games since the Perron injury caused him to slide up into a 2nd line role.

I firmly believe that anyone complaining about Bozak's production is largely doing so due to unrealistic expectations. He produces like a 2nd/3rd line tweener when used in that role and like a good 2nd liner when used in that role. I think his defensive play has been somewhere between adequate and above NHL average this year and he has been doing a decent job on the PK.

My only complaint with Bozak has been his PP production, but I still think that the PP is a disaster from a system/coaching standpoint, so I'm not ready to blame Bozak for that.

Nothing to add. Just wish I could have liked this post more than once!

 

[EastonBlues22]

<snip>

My only complaint with Bozak has been his PP production, but I still think that the PP is a disaster from a system/coaching standpoint, so I'm not ready to blame Bozak for that.

I agree with most of your post, with the caveat that paying Bozak $5 million to be an average scoring middle six center who isn't exactly great defensively is not exactly a great return on the dollar. You're really hoping for 50-55 points from that sort of player for that AAV (even at UFA prices). You might be ok with 45 points if he was a decent bit above average defensively.

Bozak absolutely should be blamed for his PP production, though. He's been on the first unit most of the year, and is currently 4th among Blues forwards in PP TOI. He has 5 points on the PP this year. Tarasenko and ROR both sit at 16, and Perron is at 10. Even Maroon has 8. Virtually everyone else is getting more bang for their buck from their PP time than he is.

 

[Brian39]

I agree with most of your post, with the caveat that paying Bozak $5 million to be an average scoring middle six center who isn't exactly great defensively is not exactly a great return on the dollar. You're really hoping for 50-55 points from that sort of player for that AAV (even at UFA prices). You might be ok with 45 points if he was a decent bit above average defensively.

Bozak absolutely should be blamed for his PP production, though. He's been on the first unit most of the year, and is currently 4th among Blues forwards in PP TOI. He has 5 points on the PP this year. Tarasenko and ROR both sit at 16, and Perron is at 10. Even Maroon has 8. Virtually everyone else is getting more bang for their buck from their PP time than he is.

That AAV was the cost of not having to give enough years that the end of the contract was a disaster. I get that $5 mil AAV for that isn't great, but it wasn't big enough to hinder our ability to construct the roster this year and it won't hinder us next year, so I'm not upset about it. I don't believe that we would have made any other moves or would be trying to make any more deadline moves if he was making $3 mil against the cap this year.

We'll probably have to agree to disagree about the PP numbers. None of our set pieces on the PP run through him, which is absolutely a strategy decision and not him failing to execute. Even Maroon has that stupid jam play on the side of the net that the team insists on running. He should have a couple more PP points, but I think for the most part he has done his job on the PP even though I absolutely despise what that job is. I don't think he would have kept the #1 PP slot as long as he did if the coaches didn't want him being stationary and bumping the puck back to Petro in an effort to open up space for 91 and 90. My biggest complaint about the Blues 1st PP unit is that it largely ignores about a third of the offensive zone once it gets set up and that is the area of the ice that Bozak is (was) positioned in. I believe that is a scheme issue rather than the players choosing to ignore that area.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

I know I do this a bunch on this board, but I still think there are way too many people who have wildly unrealistic expectations regarding point totals from various spots in the lineup.

Bozak is one of 7 NHL forwards who currently has 25 points. That's good for somewhere between 175th and 181st in scoring among NHL forwards. With 31 NHL teams, that means that there are 186 "top 6" forwards in the NHL. His scoring totals put him right at the low end of a top 6 forward in production or at the very upper end of 3rd line production. His 20 even strength points put him in a 14 way tie somewhere between 173 and 186. Any way you cut it, he is producing exactly like a 2nd/3rd line tweener should. And guess what? That's exactly how he is being utilized by the Blues. He is 7th among Blues forwards in both even strength TOI per game and overall TOI per game. His 2 most common line mates are Steen and Maroon (Schwartz is 3rd and will likely overtake one of those 2 soon). He's a 3rd liner here that is asked to slide into 2nd line duty as injuries dictate and he is producing like a low end 2nd liner.

I don't think Bozak finishes that contract in St. Louis. We can afford it next year (barring a major acquisition or two), but probably can't in the last year of the deal. If he keeps up this level of play, that will be a positive value contract when we go to move it. But until then, having him as a quality middle 6 center is a nice luxury. The 17-21-20 line has looked like a good 2nd line during this win streak and Bozak has 7 points in his last 11 games since the Perron injury caused him to slide up into a 2nd line role.

I firmly believe that anyone complaining about Bozak's production is largely doing so due to unrealistic expectations. He produces like a 2nd/3rd line tweener when used in that role and like a good 2nd liner when used in that role. I think his defensive play has been somewhere between adequate and above NHL average this year and he has been doing a decent job on the PK.

My only complaint with Bozak has been his PP production, but I still think that the PP is a disaster from a system/coaching standpoint, so I'm not ready to blame Bozak for that.

Agree 100%
Point totals arent just to be judged in a vacuum. Expecting him to match his career high in point totals playing with steen, maroon, and this years version of schwartz is just unrealistic.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

I agree with most of your post, with the caveat that paying Bozak $5 million to be an average scoring middle six center who isn't exactly great defensively is not exactly a great return on the dollar. You're really hoping for 50-55 points from that sort of player for that AAV (even at UFA prices). You might be ok with 45 points if he was a decent bit above average defensively.

Bozak absolutely should be blamed for his PP production, though. He's been on the first unit most of the year, and is currently 4th among Blues forwards in PP TOI. He has 5 points on the PP this year. Tarasenko and ROR both sit at 16, and Perron is at 10. Even Maroon has 8. Virtually everyone else is getting more bang for their buck from their PP time than he is.

Dont you think he may be closer to 50 point pace though if he was playing with different linemates than maroon steen, or this years jaden.

Put perron and a revitalized jaden and hed probably be on thaat pace.

Its hard to carry a line and score goals by youself when your linemates are black holes who turn the puck over. Hed have several more assists if schwartz wasnt so terrible at finishing easy chances this year. Its not his fault when jaden whiffs on easy chances he sets him up with.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Dont you think he may be closer to 50 point pace though if he was playing with different linemates than maroon steen, or this years jaden.

Put perron and a revitalized jaden and hed probably be on thaat pace.

Its hard to carry a line and score goals by youself when your linemates are black holes who turn the puck over. Hed have several more assists if schwartz wasnt so terrible at finishing easy chances this year. Its not his fault when jaden whiffs on easy chances he sets him up with.

If you need to put him with two more talented offensive players to get 50 points out of him, then he's simply not bringing anything to the team that's worth $5 million. At that price, you're expected to be able to drive offensive play yourself to some degree...and the worse you are defensively, the better you should be at driving offense.

Bozak simply hasn't done enough of that this year, regardless of who has been on his wing. It's not like he's setting up people left and right and it's all on them for not converting. He's just not, and he's had plenty of PP time to work with as well, so that shouldn't be an issue, either.

Maybe next year is a different story, but it's pretty easy to say he's been a disappointment this year.

 

[Zamadoo]

I think he's had a jump in his step of late, has been good in battling for pucks, makes good passes, and good at both ends of the ice. I'd call him a 2/3rd line tweener who can carry the play of his line.

 

[Blueston]

I agree with most of your post, with the caveat that paying Bozak $5 million to be an average scoring middle six center who isn't exactly great defensively is not exactly a great return on the dollar. You're really hoping for 50-55 points from that sort of player for that AAV (even at UFA prices). You might be ok with 45 points if he was a decent bit above average defensively.

Bozak absolutely should be blamed for his PP production, though. He's been on the first unit most of the year, and is currently 4th among Blues forwards in PP TOI. He has 5 points on the PP this year. Tarasenko and ROR both sit at 16, and Perron is at 10. Even Maroon has 8. Virtually everyone else is getting more bang for their buck from their PP time than he is.

Paying someone more doesn't make them better player. He had 43 points last year and is on pace for just under that. Not player's fault if we overpaid him.

 

[Novacain]

I also don't buy he is overpaid to begin with. 5 mill a season for a low end 2C or top 5 3C in the league seems about right. If the worst contract your team has is Bozak at 5 million per for 3 years, you need to give your GM a raise.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

If you thought you needed a center last summer, and didn’t sign Bozak, who did you sign and for how much? At the time the Blues certainly needed a center. Stastny was probably the next best option. It was thin after that, unless you could get Tavares to wear Blues pajamas.

 

[Blueston]

If you thought you needed a center last summer, and didn’t sign Bozak, who did you sign and for how much? At the time the Blues certainly needed a center. Stastny was probably the next best option. It was thin after that, unless you could get Tavares to wear Blues pajamas.

He really was best option at that point. And if anything helped show Buffalo we weren't desperate enough to bid against ourselves on ROR. We overpaid a bit, as everyone does in FA, but was good signing and glad we have him.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Paying someone more doesn't make them better player. He had 43 points last year and is on pace for just under that. Not player's fault if we overpaid him.

Did I say it was his fault?

I just said he hasn't been particularly impressive, and he's not a particularly good value. Do you disagree with either of those two statements?

 

[Honeycutt]

Did I say it was his fault?

I just said he hasn't been particularly impressive, and he's not a particularly good value. Do you disagree with either of those two statements?

Who could the blues have gotten that is producing at his level for less than 5 mil in free agency?

People complaining about bozak are just trying to sound smarter than they are and are analyzing everything in a vacuum..

 

[rumrokh]

Unsung contributor to the resurgence. Has added a lot of stability to the middle of the lineup with Perron, Steen, and Fabbri injured/missing time, no offense from Maroon, and Schwartz looking like he forgot how to play hockey half the games.

Even if he is overpaid, he's not overpaid enough that I'd like to see the team without him this year. It's nice to finally have skilled depth like Barbashev, Sanford, Thomas, Maroon, and Sundqvist actually playing depth roles instead of constantly having to jump up into higher pressure positions. Bozak is a buffer who has experience playing up and down the lineup, allowing those guys to do their thing consistently and with confidence.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Who could the blues have gotten that is producing at his level for less than 5 mil in free agency?

People complaining about bozak are just trying to sound smarter than they are and are analyzing everything in a vacuum..

Quite possibly no one.

You understand there's a difference between saying he hasn't been impressive, and that the Blues never should have signed him, right? I'm in the former camp, not the latter. I understand why they signed him. I haven't even said it was a mistake.

 

[stl76]

Quite possibly no one.

You understand there's a difference between saying he hasn't been impressive, and that the Blues never should have signed him, right? I'm in the former camp, not the latter. I understand why they signed him. I haven't even said it was a mistake.

Clearly you're utterly hysterical and being completely unreasonable with your blatant Bozak hatred. Get a grip Easton!

(Hopefully it's clear this was sarcasm.)


Seriously tho, not a ton to add to this topic that Brian39 and others haven't covered. Would love it if we could get a bit more from Bozak point wise and wish he was a little more fleet of foot. All-in-all tho he seems like a good character guy and is dependable, if unspectacular. Have no issue with the signing.

One thing I am surprised nobody has mentioned so far tho: dude is f***ing money in the shootout.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

I think the shootout thing hasn’t been noticed much because we’ve only been in two this year haha

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Clearly you're utterly hysterical and being completely unreasonable with your blatant Bozak hatred. Get a grip Easton!

(Hopefully it's clear this was sarcasm.)


Seriously tho, not a ton to add to this topic that Brian39 and others haven't covered. Would love it if we could get a bit more from Bozak point wise and wish he was a little more fleet of foot. All-in-all tho he seems like a good character guy and is dependable, if unspectacular. Have no issue with the signing.

One thing I am surprised nobody has mentioned so far tho: dude is ****ing money in the shootout.

Well to be fair, that only came up once this year.