Thornton says Matthews should be up for the Rocket, Selke, and Hart - PART 2

[Cotton]

Search Results | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Yeah that’s not what we’re talking about. The Oilers mentioned Matthews in a pgt between them and CALGARY. Nothing in your link like that.

 

[RogerR]

Leafs fans crying about advanced stats usage in evaluating players is ironic considering the bullshit stats that had zero importance and were never talked about all of a sudden became super important stats when they happen to make Matthews look good. I am of course referencing "Loose Puck Retrievals", a stat that was never talked about before Matthews looked good in that department and hasn't been talked about since.

In fairness, a lot of those advanced stats about Matthews turned out correct. They were used for all the silly "matthews most overrated" comments on here.

 

[danpantz]

Yeah that’s not what we’re talking about. The Oilers mentioned Matthews in a pgt between them and CALGARY. Nothing in your link like that.

Search Results | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

5 posts that mention McDavid in your last PGT versus the Canadiens

The forum that mentions McDavid the 5th most on this board is the leafs board. It trails the main board, the polls section, the Edmonton board, and the Trade section.

The Oilers board mentions Matthews the 8th most. Behind the 3 main boards, the prospects board, the leafs forum and 2 other canadian teams.

 

[snipes]

We don’t talk about McDavid in our threads, let alone title PGT’s with his name.

We also don’t throw tantrums when he has a good season and gets MVP hype.

So no.

It’s a joke based on this meme that was widely circulated on HFOil by an athletic writer, and HNIC endlessly talking about Matthews 4 point night and how it motivated him (maybe it did, maybe it didn’t McDavid is great without added motivation).

Anyways here’s the meme that likely inspired the OP of that thread, it is pretty funny. Anything with MJ will espouse good responses.

 

[Cotton]

Search Results | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

5 posts that mention McDavid in your last PGT versus the Canadiens

The forum that mentions McDavid the 5th most on this board is the leafs board. It trails the main board, the polls section, the Edmonton board, and the Trade section.

The Oilers board mentions Matthews the 8th most. Behind the 3 main boards, the prospects board, the leafs forum and 2 other canadian teams.

You got wooshed, I’m not talking about simple mentions, it would take you 2 seconds to realize the Leafs board is far larger than everybody else’s. I’m talking about something specific that Sniper has since explained.

Great work though.

 

[danpantz]

You got wooshed, I’m not talking about simple mentions, it would take you 2 seconds to realize the Leafs board is far larger than everybody else’s. I’m talking about something specific that Sniper has since explained.

Great work though.

We don’t talk about McDavid in our threads, let alone title PGT’s with his name.

We also don’t throw tantrums when he has a good season and gets MVP hype.

So no.

 

[Cotton]

You’re taking it too literal.

 

[danpantz]

You’re taking it too literal.

That's my bad then. Tough to see nuance through message board posts.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

He hasn't played weak competition
He is in the North - a good division.

Good*

 

[Karl Eriksson]

So, can we say the same thing about McDavid and the Hart?

Subban won a Norris*.

I’m an equitable asterisker

 

[Leaf Fans]

Good*

Yes.

 

[Leafs1991]

Scoring goals isn't the only thing Matthews is better at.

The word "fact" doesn't mean what you think it means.

I'm not here to jump into the McDavid vs Matthews debate but I doubt many of the people in this thread have watched all of the Leaf games this season to see the improvement in Matthews game, mainly off the puck. He is playing much better defensively, is more engaged, forechecking harder, and is even hitting! He has shown all those traits (except for the hitting) before but never this consistent and this effective. Every single game he is going out there and giving it his all.

So I agree with you, not everyone here will consider the facts. It's not like Matthews is the same player as last year taking advantage of the division he is in. He is doing it by being a more complete player.

And if someone wants to come to refute what I just said, how about you find the games from this season, then watch some of the previous seasons and then report back to me.

 

[Leafs1991]

Imma be honest, I have no clue what those stats are based on, wtf is gsva? Does McDavid also lead in VD?

Goals Scored Versus Against is what it stands for.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not here to jump into the McDavid vs Matthews debate but I doubt many of the people in this thread have watched all of the Leaf games this season to see the improvement in Matthews game, mainly off the puck. He is playing much better defensively, is more engaged, forechecking harder, and is even hitting! He has shown all those traits (except for the hitting) before but never this consistent and this effective. Every single game he is going out there and giving it his all.

So I agree with you, not everyone here will consider the facts. It's not like Matthews is the same player as last year taking advantage of the division he is in. He is doing it by being a more complete player.

And if someone wants to come to refute what I just said, how about you find the games from this season, then watch some of the previous seasons and then report back to me.

Agreed, people saying Matthews isn't even close to McDavid probably don't watch him on a regular basis so they just don't know, simple as that.

McDavid still has to be considered the best cause he's been at this high level for a long time whereas Matthews has only recently climbed up there. We see him play all the time so it's not really a surprise to us, more like something we've been waiting for and is finally happening but I get why people who don't know him as well as we do might expect he'll fall off.

IMHO McDavid has to be considered the best for that reason but if I had to pick one player today to lead my team into the playoffs, boy that would be tough. It's McDavid or Matthews though, this season I'd say those guys are their own tier above everyone else.

To be fair, it's possible I'm not giving Draisaitl enough credit, don't watch the Oilers enough to know for sure but I assume he's not quite on the same level.

 

[snipes]

You got wooshed, I’m not talking about simple mentions, it would take you 2 seconds to realize the Leafs board is far larger than everybody else’s. I’m talking about something specific that Sniper has since explained.

Great work though.

It's snipes bro.

But yes, that's the context of that OP just so you guys are aware of our PGT has that title. There's no way you guys would have known, but it was that meme by an Athletic writer that was widely circulated on HFOil and the HNIC constant blabbing about how McDavid was watching the Leafs game beforehand and it is what inspired the 5 point game. I mean, maybe it played a role, maybe it didn't. More than likely, McDavid just really wanted to dominate the game on the HNIC evening game stage.

Who knows? Pro athletes are extremely competitive so I wouldn't deny that it might have played a role seeing Matthews tear it up. We just don't know one way or the other. I'd point to him just being a superstar as the reason.

While I'm on this point, and not being sarcastic I'm actually being genuine here -- those two should train again this offseason together. Both of them look to have taken another step in their games this year.

 

[pcruz]

McDavid will win the Hart in a landslide when it’s all said and done.

Great start to the season for Matthews though, he’s playing very good hockey. Comfortably establishing himself as a bona fide top 5 centre this year.

This is incredibly short-sighted.

Why even play out the rest of the season?
The end results have already been pre-determined right?

How about we let the season play out before we start making assertations like these?

It's likely that McDavid wins the Hart if he continues on this trajectory. It's not yet guaranteed.
It's possible that someone comes out of nowhere and scored 45 goals and 100 points, leading Arizona into the playoffs.
Would it still be McDavid winning the Hart then? No.

So, we don't affirm things before they've happened.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Sure, start a thread, dont come in here whining about it.

Whining about what??? I was just asking if people say that Matthews wins the Rocket because he played in a division where people say there is no defense, then since McDavid plays in the same division, wouldn't the same apply to McDavid.

And not a fan of either team, just a fan of both players.

 

[Bedards Dad]

Whining about what??? I was just asking if people say that Matthews wins the Rocket because he played in a division where people say there is no defense, then since McDavid plays in the same division, wouldn't the same apply to McDavid.

And not a fan of either team, just a fan of both players.

Oh, my bad, i must have the person you responded to blocked. All I saw was your post with no context and it came across as complaining about Matthews having a thread. Appologies.

 

[Zamknij kurwa ryj]

You’re taking it too literal.

Your PGT's and GDT's are filled with endless hypothesizing, and the downright creepy expectation, that McDavid is going to flee Edmonton the first chance he gets to don a Leafs sweater.

 

[Zamknij kurwa ryj]

somehow I feel like that asterisk won't be applied to whatever McDavid accomplishes despite them having the same competition this season. Also, Montreal is a good defensive team and Matthews just made them look like the Sens.

See, there's a difference. McDavid has actually sustained a ridiculous level of production for multiple seasons. Without shortened season lengths he'd currently be heading towards his 5th straight 100 point+ season. Matthews has not come remotely close to proving that level of dominance.

The same as it relates to Draisaitl. 50+55 two seasons ago and was on his way to a 120+ point total last season.

When Matthews shows the ability to sustain his production (which still doesn't match McDavid or Draisaitl's) for longer than an 18 game sample size in a 7 team division, perhaps he can be favorably compared. This assumes regression or no more progression from McDavid or Draisaitl mind you, which is unlikely.

Every season it's groundhog day with this narrative. First two months the Matthews hyperbole gets out of control before McDavid and Draisaitl inevitably distance themselves as more games are played.

 

[authentic]

I just posted another stat chart without Bergeron this time, and you still have no legit arguments on why Matthews is somehow more superior defensively. Go figure?

You still haven't responded to this funny enough.

Lowest 5v5 Expected Goals Against/60 REL ranking among the 14 centers who played 1000+ minutes last year (Bergeron and Couts thrown in as they just missed the 1000 minute cut and should be included in a list covering defensive play):

1. O'Reilly
2. Schenn
3. Bergeron
4. Couturier
5. Matthews
6. Larkin
7. Kopitar
8. Mackinnon
9. Reinhart
10. Eichel
11. Barkov
12. Barzal
13. Draisaitl
14. Sheifele
15. McDavid

Actual Goals against/60 REL ranking last year from the same list:

1. Matthews
2. Kopitar
3. Couturier
4. Larkin
5. Schenn
6. Barkov
7. O'Reilly
8. Eichel
9. Barzal
10. Reinhart
11. Bergeron
12. Mackinnon
13. Draisaitl
14. McDavid
15. Sheifele

5v5 Takeaways/60 from the same list:

1. Matthews
2. Barzal
3. O'Reilly
4. McDavid
5. Barkov
6. Draisaitl
7. Sheifele
8. Bergeron
9. Eichel
10. Larkin
11. Couturier
12. Mackinnon
13. Kopitar
14. Schenn
15. Reinhart

 

[authentic]

I watch both of these players all the time and you seriously have to be living in la la land to believe McDavid is the better defensive player.

 

[Zamknij kurwa ryj]

I watch both of these players all the time and you seriously have to be living in la la land to believe McDavid is the better defensive player.

You'd also have to be living in la la land to believe that McDavid and Draisaitl are bad defensive players. But yet here we are where that erroneous narrative has taken hold among a segment of fans in their desperate bid to narrow the substantial gulf that exists between these players.

 

[authentic]

You'd also have to be living in la la land to believe that McDavid and Draisaitl are bad defensive players. But yet here we are where that erroneous narrative has taken hold among a segment of fans in their desperate bid to narrow the substantial gulf that exists between these players.

I never said they were bad defensive players. Neither one of them has to be great to be dominant anyway. It just so happens that Matthews is dominant both ways and it makes some people upset.

 

[Zamknij kurwa ryj]

I never said they were bad defensive players.

I never said you personally did. I said that's the narrative that's been prevalent and taken hold for the past few months in an attempt to diminish them.