This team needs a shakeup

Super Cake

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
30,920
6,356
Lol.

Yeah we didn't get to the cup finals with him as our #1 centre or anything. He hasn't consistently been our best player and p/g in the playoffs. Why does Ottawa attract so many fairweather fans? Is it just because of being a relatively new team?

A lot of teams attract their fair share of fairweather fans.
 

Vesa Awesaka

#KeepTheSenate
Jul 4, 2013
18,236
25
The team is built wrong imo with Spezza, Michalek and Karlsson. Karlsson just isnt enough to carry the whole defense by himself. Spezza is not the type of number 1 forward successful teams have and is too expensive. We need a number one center who dominates possession numbers and has a solide two way game. Spezza doesnt dominate when he's on the ice although he does produce. Michalek is meh at 4mil but with his injury problems he's risky. Guy can be useful but probably better placed in a limited role. I also think or system is flawed. Theres way too much room for mistakes with our aggressive pinches.

Still way too early to freak out. We have all the pieces if guys step up. Methot regains his form, Cowen improves, Speeza gets better without the puck and become less turn over prone and Michalek accelerate his goal scoring pace and were good as gold.

I'd also like to call up hoffman to add more of a dimension of speed t line up. We don't exactly have that many speedsters atm.
 
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HavlatMach9

streamable 3rah1
Mar 17, 2011
13,445
394
Ottawa
The team is built wrong imo with Spezza, Michalek and Karlsson. Karlsson just isnt enough to carry the whole defense by himself.
No one can, but if there's anyone, it's a top form Karlsson.

Spezza is not the type of number 1 forward successful teams have and is too expensive.
Wonder how we made the finals then with him as a #1C. 7.5m is expensive? He's worth between 7.5m to 8.5m. In the 07 finals, the other team had the great McDonald. It's as if the rest of the team has to be good too.

We need a number one center who dominates possession numbers and has a solide two way game.
Dominates possession numbers? What? I can think of only Datsyuk and Crosby who can do those while putting up points.

Spezza doesnt dominate when he's on the ice although he does produce.
Well without him, we don't win the few games that we did when he was dominant.

Michalek is a product of Spezza, though while good, isn't someone you can say undermines the team because there are other more important players on the team.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
The team is built wrong imo with Spezza, Michalek and Karlsson. Karlsson just isnt enough to carry the whole defense by himself. Spezza is not the type of number 1 forward successful teams have and is too expensive. We need a number one center who dominates possession numbers and has a solide two way game. Spezza doesnt dominate when he's on the ice although he does produce. Michalek is meh at 4mil but with his injury problems he's risky. Guy can be useful but probably better placed in a limited role. I also think or system is flawed. Theres way too much room for mistakes with our aggressive pinches.

This is just silly. Completely silly. Spezza's two-way game is fine and better than a lot of 'elite' #1 centres. His possession numbers have also traditionally been fine (Spezza has only had a negative CorsiOn once in his entire career and that was in 2009-10). He doesn't have ridiculous possession numbers like say a Bergeron, Datsyuk or a Toews, but that comes at the expense of the offence he generates that they don't (minus Datsyuk, who is arguably a top 3 forward in the league).

But anyway you can believe what you want. Spezza is absolutely a #1 forward that teams are successful with. His peripherals are in line with guys like Malkin, Crosby, Getzlaf, Thornton et. al. who people drool over. The problem is that this is a team game and you need a strong team to win especially in a league that is constantly moving towards an even stronger level of parity.

Still way too early to freak out. We have all the pieces if guys step up. Methot regains his form, Cowen improves, Speeza gets better without the puck and become less turn over prone and Michalek accelerate his goal scoring pace and were good as gold.

Michalek just needs to convert more on the chances he's been given. I can't tell you how many times Spezza has already fed him a great chance (or someone else has) and he's either bobbled the puck or just done nothing with it. He's having a bad year even by his standards.

I do agree it's too early to freak out. This is a really good team that is just going through growing pains. There's been some close games with some really strong teams already and some flashes of brilliance.

I'd also like to call up hoffman to add more of a dimension of speed t line up. We don't exactly have that many speedsters atm.

Zibanejad, Turris, MacArthur, Pageau, Greening, Condra, Karlsson, Michalek and Conacher are not fast enough? Plenty of speed up front the problem is our D is not overly mobile outside of Karlsson.

This fanbase needs a shakeup. Too many Alfie sympathizers.

Amen.
 

King Karlsson

Gersei Chongar
Sep 30, 2011
1,478
28
This is just silly. Completely silly. Spezza's two-way game is fine and better than a lot of 'elite' #1 centres. His possession numbers have also traditionally been fine (Spezza has only had a negative CorsiOn once in his entire career and that was in 2009-10). He doesn't have ridiculous possession numbers like say a Bergeron, Datsyuk or a Toews, but that comes at the expense of the offence he generates that they don't (minus Datsyuk, who is arguably a top 3 forward in the league).

But anyway you can believe what you want. Spezza is absolutely a #1 forward that teams are successful with. His peripherals are in line with guys like Malkin, Crosby, Getzlaf, Thornton et. al. who people drool over. The problem is that this is a team game and you need a strong team to win especially in a league that is constantly moving towards an even stronger level of parity.



Michalek just needs to convert more on the chances he's been given. I can't tell you how many times Spezza has already fed him a great chance (or someone else has) and he's either bobbled the puck or just done nothing with it. He's having a bad year even by his standards.

I do agree it's too early to freak out. This is a really good team that is just going through growing pains. There's been some close games with some really strong teams already and some flashes of brilliance.



Zibanejad, Turris, MacArthur, Pageau, Greening, Condra, Karlsson, Michalek and Conacher are not fast enough? Plenty of speed up front the problem is our D is not overly mobile outside of Karlsson.



Amen.

Come on, we're not a fast team, everyone knows it. The Leafs are a fast team.. we have one line of speed and one defenseman with speed, that's all.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,157
9,903
We're an uneven team in terms of speed: Spezza has solid top speed and good acceleration, Michalek is allaround fast, Karlsson is very fast, Conacher is speedy etc... Then we have Ryan who isn't SLOW but certainly isn't very fast (still love the guy!), Cowen who isn't very mobile, Phillips who is unfortunately getting there in age etc...

I know I keeping repeating myself but the issue is that the gap control is bad at the moment: the breakouts involve long passes far too often (it's been getting better) and this makes backcheking harder than it has to be; it's as if the D and the F aren't playing as a unit but as two seperate ones.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,046
5,653
Ottawa
We're an uneven team in terms of speed: Spezza has solid top speed and good acceleration, Michalek is allaround fast, Karlsson is very fast, Conacher is speedy etc... Then we have Ryan who isn't SLOW but certainly isn't very fast (still love the guy!), Cowen who isn't very mobile, Phillips who is unfortunately getting there in age etc...

I know I keeping repeating myself but the issue is that the gap control is bad at the moment: the breakouts involve long passes far too often (it's been getting better) and this makes backcheking harder than it has to be; it's as if the D and the F aren't playing as a unit but as two seperate ones.

I agree with you. Watching the Sharks' transition game the other night made the holes in Ottawa's all the more apparent. There were always forwards skating towards center ice waiting for an outlet pass, or to collect a puck chipped off the boards or flipped towards the redline.

I've seen a lot of the Sens standing still waiting to see what happens during the start of a breakout and then having to burn into center ice giving the puck carrier few options. They always seem to be trying to catch up to the play instead of dictating it, and when they do they miscue and go offside or have forwards standing still at the opposing blue line waiting for the puck to cross.

Just seems to be that there are a lot of miscues, or communication issues or trouble adapting to the system. Wahtever you want to call it, i think that's where the major issues with this team are right now.

People want to point fingers at the usual suspects time and time again but I think that is misdirected. In my opinion the team's issues are more from the collective then they are the individual parts. The good news is that can be coached.
 

Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk

Effortless sexy.
Jul 13, 2006
12,719
1,049
Cumberland
Wonder how we made the finals then with him as a #1C. 7.5m is expensive? He's worth between 7.5m to 8.5m. In the 07 finals, the other team had the great McDonald. It's as if the rest of the team has to be good too.




Well without him, we don't win the few games that we did when he was dominant.

Michalek is a product of Spezza, though while good, isn't someone you can say undermines the team because there are other more important players on the team.

Spezza had a 50-goal trigger man and one of the best two-way forwards in the game on his wing.

We made the playoffs without him last year and I'd wager if you took a look at the W-L record with and without him it would be close to equal...and Michalek was a product of an out of this world shooting percentage.


This fanbase needs a shakeup. Too many Alfie sympathizers.

Being honest isn't being a sympathizer. Alfredsson did a ton with and away from the puck. Things you won't see on TV but that become apparent in a live game: blocking passing lanes, little slashes to wear down players, nice board work, puck retrieval as well as taking the entirety of the blame when things go wrong (and praise when things go right). Like it or not, Alfie's shoes are huge to fill and we're already seeing our #1D snapping for lack of his presence.

I'm certainly not throwing Spezza out with the bathwater but he needs to raise his deensive play to an elite level if this team is going to win a Cup with him.
 

Liliaceae

hockey
Jun 21, 2007
7,046
32
Canada
I'm certainly not throwing Spezza out with the bathwater but he needs to raise his deensive play to an elite level if this team is going to win a Cup with him.

11 didn't bring us a Cup. The Alfie love is sickening. I mean I get it but to put him high on a pedestal like he's perfect... yeah right. :facepalm:
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,340
59,233
Ottawa, ON
11 didn't bring us a Cup. The Alfie love is sickening. I mean I get it but to put him high on a pedestal like he's perfect... yeah right. :facepalm:

Lots of people didn't bring us a Cup. Chara, Redden, Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, Heatley, Bonk, White, Hasek, Emery...

He wasn't perfect, but over the long-run, he was Ottawa's best player in our team's history with the statistics to prove it.

This is a fact.

He also probably had the best playoff performance of any Senator ever.

This is also a fact.

The pedestal he is on, is that of the best forward that has suited up for the team.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Lots of people didn't bring us a Cup. Chara, Redden, Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, Heatley, Bonk, White, Hasek, Emery...

He wasn't perfect, but over the long-run, he was Ottawa's best player in our team's history with the statistics to prove it.

This is a fact.

He also probably had the best playoff performance of any Senator ever.

This is also a fact.

The pedestal he is on, is that of the best forward that has suited up for the team.

Spezza's year last year was better than any year Alfredsson had for the Sens. Alfredsson has longevity going for him, and that has always been his most impressive asset (obviously, he's very skilled also). It's not hard to imagine Spezza surpassing Alfredsson if he can stay healthy. I mean at age 30 Alfredsson's numbers were 488 points in 552 games with 187 goals. If you take Spezza from 23 - 30 he's put up 556 points in 510 games with 206 goals.

Spezza and Karlsson are very likely to surpass Alfredsson. The problem is that Alfredsson was the first legitimate star to tow the line for Ottawa to what is a very new fanbase (relative to the league being only 20 years old). That nostalgia and attachment is something that very likely won't go away for a long time.

However, what you have highlighted above makes it very simple -- one player doesn't win a cup. Not a captain, not a goalie, not any single player. It's a team game and a great team needs to be built around a player like Spezza, or Alfredsson, or Karlsson in order to win a cup.
 
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Icelevel

During these difficult times...
Sep 9, 2009
24,640
4,904
remember that game we played when the team was really motivated? 6-1W
 

TeamRenzo

Registered User
Jul 20, 2009
3,159
1,063
Lots of people didn't bring us a Cup. Chara, Redden, Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, Heatley, Bonk, White, Hasek, Emery...

He wasn't perfect, but over the long-run, he was Ottawa's best player in our team's history with the statistics to prove it.

This is a fact.

He also probably had the best playoff performance of any Senator ever.

This is also a fact.

The pedestal he is on, is that of the best forward that has suited up for the team.

Alfie was put on a pedestal not only for his on ice activities but also for what he brought to the community and team.

When our team was on life support Alfie, as well as other players deferred salary so the team could meet payroll. He has done a substantial amount of work for the Royal Ottawa Hospital. Alfie is a solid guy and deserved to be on a pedestal.
 

ZekeA

The Pride is Back...
Jan 13, 2009
4,843
1,181
Where the Cup is
Stone will be out a bit longer

Stone has almost fully recovered. When he is fully healthy, I think it is likely that he plays 2-3 games in Binghamton and then gets called up.

"Berserker":

Right winger Mark Stone has been practicing with the team for the past few days but is still avoiding contact as he recovers from a shoulder injury suffered in the season opener on Oct. 5. Richardson said Stone is ahead of schedule but unlikely to return this weekend.
 

aragorn

Do The Right Thing
Aug 8, 2004
28,464
8,992
The only way Spezza is going to change people's mind about him (his detractors) is if he can win a cup in Ottawa, otherwise, he was a good offensive player with a lot of defensive holes in his game. Looking back at his whole hockey career he hasn't really won all that much, not sure what to make of that though. IMO he still needs another goal scorer on his wing who can play with him, that's also one of his problems, he is a difficult player to play with, very unpredictable & plays a east/west game. I really hope Stone turns into that player & becomes another Heatley playing with Spezza.
 

Vesa Awesaka

#KeepTheSenate
Jul 4, 2013
18,236
25
Spezza's year last year was better than any year Alfredsson had for the Sens. Alfredsson has longevity going for him, and that has always been his most impressive asset (obviously, he's very skilled also).

Gotta disagree alfie's work ethic in determination was what made him great. Havent seen anyone win board battle like him in a sens uniform outside fisher.
 

Laoghaire

Registered User
Jun 1, 2008
3,492
2
Ottawa
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This team doesn't need a shake-up. Cowen, Spezza, Michalek and Greening need to get it together.
 

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