GDT: This one might have more flair ;) Hurricanes vs Avalanche 11AM MST

Pokecheque

Whack it Hard to Girard
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I did show you how Soda was tops in the league for toughest competition faced in the NHL last year right? Considering we made the playoffs, and everything else regarding his year. I'm not really sure you have a leg to stand on discounting his defensive ability.

I don't think anyone is arguing that hes a defensive specialist, or a underrated Selke candidate, but "simply doesn't work." Is "simply wrong."

You can throw those at me all you want and I can show you how lousy his shot counts have been over the years, and how his stats in Boston were inflated because he was a two-way player playing soft minutes behind the best two-way forward in the league, and one of the best shutdown defenders in the league.

Bottom line, he's been the top defensive forward on a bad defensive team. In that Calgary game Bednar kept rolling out that line for defensive purposes and it got absolutely steamrolled, and that's not just because the two wingers on that line are kinda lousy right now--that happened with the Long Beach All-Star/Soda/Como line too.

And I don't mean to say he's Sandis Ozolinsh in the defensive zone. He's not useless, I just don't think they're using him properly the way they're currently using him. He IS a two-way player, but I don't think he's a shutdown guy. He needs to produce in order to be effective. I'm not even really trying to diss him here, just saying he's miscast in a Stephane Yelle-role. And since that 2nd line ain't cuttin' it, all I'm saying is, bump Carl up a line and use him as a scorer.

So to be clear, I didn't say "Use him as a 2C or scratch him" just saying if they want to get their money's worth, he needs to get 2C minutes with proper linemates.
 

CobraAcesS

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You can throw those at me all you want and I can show you how lousy his shot counts have been over the years, and how his stats in Boston were inflated because he was a two-way player playing soft minutes behind the best two-way forward in the league, and one of the best shutdown defenders in the league.

Bottom line, he's been the top defensive forward on a bad defensive team. In that Calgary game Bednar kept rolling out that line for defensive purposes and it got absolutely steamrolled, and that's not just because the two wingers on that line are kinda lousy right now--that happened with the Long Beach All-Star/Soda/Como line too.

And I don't mean to say he's Sandis Ozolinsh in the defensive zone. He's not useless, I just don't think they're using him properly the way they're currently using him. He IS a two-way player, but I don't think he's a shutdown guy. He needs to produce in order to be effective. I'm not even really trying to diss him here, just saying he's miscast in a Stephane Yelle-role. And since that 2nd line ain't cuttin' it, all I'm saying is, bump Carl up a line and use him as a scorer.

So to be clear, I didn't say "Use him as a 2C or scratch him" just saying if they want to get their money's worth, he needs to get 2C minutes with proper linemates.

If you want to pick out some games here and there that a line gets dominated you can find them for pretty much any in the league. I get it his line as a shutdown line can be inconsistent, but it's not that easy to tell how much of it is him versus how much of it also falls on his line-mates. In saying that I am absolutely a Comeau hater, and never felt any sort of endearment towards Neato outside of when he was scoring net front goals.

I think you can make the case that he'd be better used as a #2C right now without commentary stating he simply does not work. Plenty of people have done so already on a daily basis. Do you see the difference between what you detail out here and the hot take you made earlier?

I just personally can't abide anything that removes credit from the shit role hes had to deal with, and how hes performed outside of one year for us. There is just a lot of different ways to make that point that don't involve taking a complete dump on his defensive abilities.

For the record he is miss cast to an extent, but until we have someone better the most we can hope for is that he gets some wingers with skill who can also not look like fools in the defensive zone. It's also not going to be that easy for any of these young guys to surpass him before his contract runs out either.
 

Pokecheque

Whack it Hard to Girard
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If you want to pick out some games here and there that a line gets dominated you can find them for pretty much any in the league. I get it his line as a shutdown line can be inconsistent, but it's not that easy to tell how much of it is him versus how much of it also falls on his line-mates. In saying that I am absolutely a Comeau hater, and never felt any sort of endearment towards Neato outside of when he was scoring net front goals.

I think you can make the case that he'd be better used as a #2C right now without commentary stating he simply does not work. Plenty of people have done so already on a daily basis. Do you see the difference between what you detail out here and the hot take you made earlier?

I just personally can't abide anything that removes credit from the **** role hes had to deal with, and how hes performed outside of one year for us. There is just a lot of different ways to make that point that don't involve taking a complete dump on his defensive abilities.

For the record he is miss cast to an extent, but until we have someone better the most we can hope for is that he gets some wingers with skill who can also not look like fools in the defensive zone. It's also not going to be that easy for any of these young guys to surpass him before his contract runs out either.

Well, I'll own the fact that I should've phrased it better and said he doesn't *quite* work in a lesser role, but if you're gonna come out and post that I've "taken a complete dump on his defensive abilities" when I've gone out of my way to say that I think his defense is "overrated" and not "awful," that bit of hyperbole is on you. I still say his defense is "okay." If you take umbrage with that, don't know what to tell you, we'll just agree to disagree. And I'm not nitpicking the stats to just feed some sort of narrative, he simply isn't that great in terms of getting the puck out of the zone, nor is he stellar in terms of shot suppression overall. It isn't just one crap year where everything went wrong that I'm pointing at.

I'll just say one last time that I don't think the Avs will capitalize on him in the time he has left in Colorado in a 3rd/4th line role. Doesn't mean he's worthless, just means I think his true value is in putting up points, not preventing them. If someone else steps up and bumps him outta that spot, so be it, but no one has yet so I think if you put him in there, bump him up the depth chart and take some of the onus off the kids who we hope will develop into a secondary scoring role. May as well use him in a role that maximizes his abilities.

I will agree though, he has been used in that role because there really isn't anyone else. But that doesn't mean he's great, or even good at it.
 
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CaleMakaw

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There's no reason why the second line can't be the shut down line. I'd like to see Jost-Soda-Kamenev/Ghetto take over defensive duties and leave wilson-kerfoot-kamenev/Ghetto on line 3 with the offensive minutes to chip in goals. Soda is arguably best defensive player on the team (I would argue better than Landy) he just needs linemates that aren't black holes. This also allows Jost to focus on offense instead of worrying about the defensive duties of center.
 

CobraAcesS

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Well, I'll own the fact that I should've phrased it better and said he doesn't *quite* work in a lesser role, but if you're gonna come out and post that I've "taken a complete dump on his defensive abilities" when I've gone out of my way to say that I think his defense is "overrated" and not "awful," that bit of hyperbole is on you. I still say his defense is "okay." If you take umbrage with that, don't know what to tell you, we'll just agree to disagree. And I'm not nitpicking the stats to just feed some sort of narrative, he simply isn't that great in terms of getting the puck out of the zone, nor is he stellar in terms of shot suppression overall. It isn't just one crap year where everything went wrong that I'm pointing at.

I'll just say one last time that I don't think the Avs will capitalize on him in the time he has left in Colorado in a 3rd/4th line role. Doesn't mean he's worthless, just means I think his true value is in putting up points, not preventing them. If someone else steps up and bumps him outta that spot, so be it, but no one has yet so I think if you put him in there, bump him up the depth chart and take some of the onus off the kids who we hope will develop into a secondary scoring role. May as well use him in a role that maximizes his abilities.

I will agree though, he has been used in that role because there really isn't anyone else. But that doesn't mean he's great, or even good at it.

Yeah we should take the high road and agree to disagree lol. :ha:

We agree on everything except what shade of defensive ability he has. I've got a soft spot for the role hes been cast in and how hes handled it last year, and now. It would have been no surprise to anyone if he did everything he could to get out of town after Bednar's first year. Which I don't think was only on Soda either.

I think Soda has done a lot with very little.
 

Freudian

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Freudian

Clearly deranged
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- I tell you Marc, no one around the league knows who Mikko Rantanen is
- I'm gonna call him Rodney
- Heh
- You know because "I get no respect"
- Did you know Mikko has had two four point games without getting a star. Not a star league wide but not a star in a single game.
- I'm going to call him Rodney
 
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agentblack

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Apr 11, 2011
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Do people really care that much if Mikko gets recognition around the league? I mean i have no idea if the player cares, id have to think he doesnt but who knows but for fans and the media, who gives a sh!t
The minute those bright east coast hockey media lights get on you ...oh look a slump. how about that.
 

AnimalMother73

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Sep 17, 2009
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Yup. It's not working, at all.

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Kerfoot-Kamenev-Wilson
Jost-Soderberg-Sven
Dano-JTC-Calvert

When everyone is healthy.
2 points thru 8, same number of shots as Girard, half the shots as Kerfoot. I'm not seeing any agility in his skating which also still looks slow to me. A non-entity on the power play. Really think he should spend some time w the Eagles, figure things out a bit and build some confidence.
 

Foppberg

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Nov 20, 2016
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2 points thru 8, same number of shots as Girard, half the shots as Kerfoot. I'm not seeing any agility in his skating which also still looks slow to me. A non-entity on the power play. Really think he should spend some time w the Eagles, figure things out a bit and build some confidence.
I can't see that happening though, hopefully Bednar will bump him down and/or to the wing.
 

Ivan13

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May 3, 2011
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At some points it looks he and Landy are in each others way on the PP. He should move to wing, and they should promote either Kamenev or Soda to that 2nd line, depending on how you want to deploy that line.
 

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