This Is Why The NHL Is Dead/Lemieux under attack

[habfan4]

Don't be ridiculous. There is a third explanation that it most likely the right one - there was simply a misunderstanding.

Really - Perhaps you should call Mr. Klatt and bring him up to speed, seems he let the PA's spin and hypebole get the best of him.

 

[SENSible1*]

Gary Bettman invited Wayne and Mario at the NHLPA's behest.
Wayne claimed on the Friday before that the only player he had spoken to was Shane Doan, did Shane have the authority to offer information on possible NHLPA proposals?

Doan is the player rep for the Coyotes.

 

[SENSible1*]

Your claims are absolutly idiotic. The known hockey world was sitting on pins and needles on friday the 15th as word leaked out from "players" that a deal was done at $45 million and that there was a meeting on saturday to confirm it.

go back and look this stuff up son or does mom shut the computer off at bedtime.

This poster has the nerve to act like other are spinning the events to be the opposite of what occured when he is the only one on the board guilty of doing exactly that.

 

[HockeyCritter]

Gary Bettman invited Wayne and Mario at the NHLPA's behest.
Wayne claimed on the Friday before that the only player he had spoken to was Shane Doan, did Shane have the authority to offer information on possible NHLPA proposals?

Is not Shane Doan the player representative, therefore does it not make sense that when he spoke to an owner he possessed a smidgen of information regarding the PA’s intent?

And speculation (granted the source was Brooks) has it that the "some players" consisted of a group lead by Roenick, Yzerman, Doan, and Iginla . . . . not exactly lowly grunts.

Additionally, my understanding of what happened is - -

1- Players contacted Bettman and suggested a meeting be called as the players were going to offer $45-million

2-Players contacted Lemieux and Gretzky and told them the same thing

3-Bettman had Daly call Linden to set up a meeting

4-Linden requested Lemieux and Gretzky

5-Gretzky pulls Guerin aside to inquire about the proposal

6-Damphouse says the PA isn't going to make a proposal, they aren't there to talk about a cap, they want to talk about the other details

7-Meeting ends

**Sigh**

Who knows . . . but for there to be the appearance that the PA embarrassed/mislead Gretzky or Lemeiux be it accidentally or on purpose is shameful and only deepens the resentment the majority of fans feel toward the PA.

(And notice I said PA and not players as I believe that they are not the same thing).

 

[ti-vite]

The way people post around here the should be called the PU (union). Sounds better

 

[Phanuthier*]

Most of all, bling is ignorant to one thing... fans can help swing this one way or another. We saw it in 1994 when Chelios's famous threats to Bettman's family swayed the public. Lemieux and Gretzkey are icons, simply put. They are well connected, they are popular and they are the face of the game. They garner the respect of players and owners alike, and more importantly, the public.

So when Mario Lemieux speaks, and Trent Klatt tries his pathetic rebuttel, who do you think joe-hockey fan is listening to?

 

[bling]

For those who want to look too far between the lines for conspiracy...

you're an idiot.

The reason everyone's believing these guys is because they represent the "class" that detractors seem to think the NHL lacks. Plus, why would two owners be so much more important than say... Jeremy Jacobs? Because these two laced them up. They represent a vital link between owner and management. Infact, Mario is literally the bridge because he's both.

If we're talking conspiracy here -- JFK and Hitler probably need re-solving. Go do that.

Ah, once again those who can not formulate an intelligent thought or rebuttal must resort to insult.

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Thank god Burke never gave Klatt that massive raise he was asking.

"There's no way I'm paying a 3rd liner over one million dollars, If Trent does'nt like it, that's fine, I'll drive him to the airport".

 

[X8oD]

Ah, once again those who can not formulate an intelligent thought or rebuttal must resort to insult.

eh, reading your spins on said topic is more than enough to warrant an insult ban here at HF.

Him calling you an idiot is just brushing over the top of it.

 

[bling]

eh, reading your spins on said topic is more than enough to warrant an insult ban here at HF.

Him calling you an idiot is just brushing over the top of it.

Oh so sorry, I was not aware that it was a common practice here to ban posters who disagree with the majority. How foolish of me to think that a variety of opinions is welcomed on a message boards such as this.

 

[Munchausen]

I didn't think this PA rhetoric would continue after February 16th however it has been cranked up even more.

Sadly, I always knew it would, and you can look forward to much worse than that. Players will be in denial 'til the very end, they are great warriors, but poor decision makers. As Kypreos said, those guys have huge stones... Well yes Nick, that have, but unfortunatelly, the size of their... brains.. isn't proportionally equal to the size of their stones (at least the ones who spoke up to date). To quote an other analyst from the Hockey Central panel, I think a lot of players are only hoping Goodenow goes down like Braveheart at the end of the movie. Making a point speaks to them more than common sense.

 

[labatt50]

Sadly, I always knew it would, and you can look forward to much worse than that. Players will be in denial 'til the very end, they are great warriors, but poor decision makers. As Kypreos said, those guys have huge stones... Well yes Nick, that have, but unfortunatelly, the size of their... stones.. isn't proportionally equal to the size of their brains (at least the ones who spoke up to date). To quote an other analyst from the Hockey Central panel, I think a lot of players are only hoping Goodenow goes down like Braveheart at the end of the movie. Making a point speaks to them more than common sense.

Well said

 

[Ol' Dirty Chinaman*]

Whats with all these Canuckleheads?

Did Burke rub them the wrong way in Vancouver so that they are all suddenly hardline union members????

you've got nazzy, linden and now klatt.. who's next? cloutier?

As a Canuck fan, the shame is getting worse and worse

 

[Drury_Sakic]

Bling has his right to his belief.. and if thats how he read the articles.. Fine...

No one can post references anymore to this since all the reputalbe sites have cleared out the articles that refered to it..


In general.. 90% of hockey people would say they thought the PA was going to make an offer...... And I doubt that many thought that the NHL was the one in the position to make the offer simply because the league canned the season.. if the NHL came back with an offer.. with the thought of starting the season up still, it would have been a HUGE joke(not that this is not)...

If the PA came with an offer that worked, the NHL could then say "the PA came to us with a deal that worked, and it would have been wrong not to take it and play hockey"

 

[PecaFan]

Well yes Nick, that have, but unfortunatelly, the size of their... stones.. isn't proportionally equal to the size of their brains

No no no, you've got that backwards. The size of their *brains* isn't proportional to the size of the stones.

IE, they have more stones than brains.

 

[Munchausen]

No no no, you've got that backwards. The size of their *brains* isn't proportional to the size of the stones.

IE, they have more stones than brains.

You're right, guess the size of my brain isn't proportional to the size of my stones either. On the other hand, I never had that much stones to begin with.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Your kidding right? Both Mario and Wayne said that the players invited them and told them that a new offer would be on the table.

Gretzky never said that.

If you read his interview statements you will note he was told this by Bettman not any player. At no time has Gretzky claimed he was told this by a player.

 

[dakota]

Here is a clip from an article.. bottom line is they were misled to believe that they were going to the meeting expecting a proposal from the NHLPA... if you think Gretzky would favor his stake in the Coyotes over his LOVE FOR THE GAME OF HOCKEY and the NHL... you obviously do not know what he stands for.

He was there without an agenda and was asked by the NHLPA to be there for those reasons... and to be blindsided was a disgrace to those players who invited him... (see Shane Doan, Linden and Iginla).


February 23, 2005

NEW YORK - Wayne Gretzky says he is not mad, just disappointed.

Hockey legends Gretzky and Mario Lemieux were unable to broker a deal to end the NHL lockout, with the Great One telling the New York Post that the NHL Players' Association never even discussed a salary cap number at a Saturday meeting.

Gretzky, who confirmed he and Lemieux had been invited to the meeting by the NHLPA, said the league side expected the players to present a proposal that would include a salary cap number they'd be willing to accept.

"Mario and I believed our role was going to be to do what we could to help the players get to the number that was going to get a deal done," Gretzky told the Post. "Gary (Bettman) never told me or led me to believe (the NHL) was coming to the meeting with a new proposal, or had committed to raising the hard cap number from the previous $42.5 million (U.S.). Gary never told me the league was prepared to go to $45 million.

"I wasn't there to negotiate, and neither was Mario. That wasn't our role. You have to remember, this wasn't the NHL's meeting. If Gary had wanted to call another meeting, he would have done it Wednesday morning before he announced cancellation of the season.

it looks like he was invited by the PA... its semantics if the PA had to get Bettmans permission to bring him in, and Bettman made the phone call to "officially invite" him.

Another article here

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=115751

Gretzky also confirmed to the paper that both he and Mario Lemieux had been invited to the meeting by the NHLPA, where he expected the players to present a proposal that would include the hard cap number they'd be willing to accept.

 

[mooseOAK*]

Whats with all these Canuckleheads?

Did Burke rub them the wrong way in Vancouver so that they are all suddenly hardline union members????

you've got nazzy, linden and now klatt.. who's next? cloutier?

B.C is one of the few places left in the civilized world that is still fighting these stupid union- management battles. The rest have figured out the the unions won a long time ago and the the working guy is getting a good deal and can enjoy a good lifestyle, for the most part.

The NHLPA position just takes that to absurd levels.

 

[Lou is God]

Gretzky never said that.

If you read his interview statements you will note he was told this by Bettman not any player. At no time has Gretzky claimed he was told this by a player.

You are correct, Gretzky has never claimed that....yet, but Mario did and that is enough to show that the players goal was to embarass the League using two of the greatest players in our time on top of also using the fans devotion as a tool against the owners. You don't find that revolting and lowlife like? I do.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Thank god Burke never gave Klatt that massive raise he was asking.

"There's no way I'm paying a 3rd liner over one million dollars, If Trent does'nt like it, that's fine, I'll drive him to the airport".

What massive raise? Klatt was earning $900,000 and coming off a good year.

So instead Burkie signed 3rd liner Brad May for more money than he offered Klatt. while Klatt was offered more money in LA than he would have signed to stay in Vancouver.

May ($1.1 million) clocked in with:
70G 5g 6a 11pts 137PIM

Klatt's($1.1 million) stats:
82GP 17g 26a 43pts 46PIM

Burkie also said that Murray Baron would not get the money elsewhare he was being offered to stay in Vancouver. Burke was right - the next day Baron signed for $400,000 more than the Canucks were offering.

When the rubber hit the road in the playoffs the Canucks simply did not have the grit and character veterans like Klatt and Baron around to gut it out and they folded.

No wonder Burkie was handed his walking papers. I wonder if he drove Klatt and Baron to the airport?

 

[Wetcoaster]

You are correct, Gretzky has never claimed that....yet, but Mario did and that is enough to show that the players goal was to embarass the League using two of the greatest players in our time on top of also using the fans devotion as a tool against the owners. You don't find that revolting and lowlife like? I do.

Lemieux has never claimed anyone authorized by the NHLPA spoke to him. If you recall there was lot of buzz and positive news being generated particulalrly by the Hockey News in spite of denials to the contrary.

As far as I can see Bettman used them as much or more than the NHLPA.

Mario's understanding is likely a miscommunication as I do not think he is lying while Bettman surely misled Gretzky. YMMV

 

[dakota]

What massive raise? Klatt was earning $900,000 and coming off a good year.

So instead Burkie signed 3rd liner Brad May for more money than he offered Klatt. while Klatt was offered more money in LA than he would have signed to stay in Vancouver.

May ($1.1 million) clocked in with:
70G 5g 6a 11pts 137PIM

Klatt's($1.1 million) stats:
82GP 17g 26a 43pts 46PIM

Burkie also said that Murray Baron would not get the money elsewhare he was being offered to stay in Vancouver. Burke was right - the next day Baron signed for $400,000 more than the Canucks were offering.

When the rubber hit the road in the playoffs the Canucks simply did not have the grit and character veterans like Klatt and Baron around to gut it out and they folded.

No wonder Burkie was handed his walking papers. I wonder if he drove Klatt and Baron to the airport?

brad may was set to earn for the 04-05 season at 900,000... Klatt was 1.1 million...

klat was 1.2 million for 05-06 season (he got a 2 or 3 year deal i think) whereas May only got a one year deal I think maybe 2...

i got these figures from the NHLPA proposal from Dec 9 http://www.nhlpa.com/

 

[Lou is God]

Lemieux has never claimed anyone authorized by the NHLPA spoke to him. If you recall there was lot of buzz and positive news being generated particulalrly by the Hockey News in spite of denials to the contrary.

As far as I can see Bettman used them as much or more than the NHLPA.

Mario's understanding is likely a miscommunication as I do not think he is lying while Bettman surely misled Gretzky. YMMV

"There is a deal in principle has been reached and the league will uncancel the season"

Where did that come from that Friday night? According to the Hockey News a unnamed player. And in fact there were also other people who claimed that this rumor was true also said their sources were players. NOBODY ever said it was from the league or the owner sides, nobody. Then you throw in the fact that Mario was told by the players that they would have a proposal (I don't buy your arguement for one second that who told Mario this was not authorized or he misunderstood) when in fact they never did.

Now why would the players go around and tell people who they know will run with the lie as truth that the agreement was reached in principle and the season would be uncancelled the next day? There has to be a reason why this lie was passed around and I can only conclude that the players were desperate for a deal and figured that if the media and public were under the assumption that a deal was done that the owners in fear of more embarassment and negative PR would then fold and make a deal, but they figured wrong and know the truth is coming out on who played dirty that weekend and no matter on how you try to paint it, the players are the ones with crap on their face and deservedly so.

 

[Shark Attack]

Let's take a step back here. Who actually invited Mario and Wayne? It was the Owners group who did so at the behest of the NHLPA. So logically it would seem that the NHL Owners group said to Mario and Wayne. "The NHPLA is ready to cave and has asked that you there to witness it or perhaps even lend some credence to the proceedings." Now to me that is the bad info that those guys recieved.

Who is then responsible for misleading Mario and Wayne? Sounds like the NHL Owners group to me!

Trent Klatt was correct in saying they were misled.

I believe that you are mistaken, Trevor Linden invited Mario and Wayne to the meeting. - TSN

So it would appear that your conclusion is incorrect, the PA mislead the public.