This is weird. Kasparaitis gifted his series-winning stick and puck to ... Alex Ovechkin

Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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This is the same argument people use to place Sakic and Yzerman over Sid. Do you subscribe to that mindset as well?
Sids better but Yzerman and Sakic aren't far off. I'd probably put Forsberg ahead of Sakic. Geno would be in that conversation and eventually Mcdavid may overtake them all. But we got a ways to go before that happens.

IMO Mario and Gretzky are far and away the most gifted players to ever play. Orr was playing when I was a youngin, so I can't say much about him. Only by highlights and how much reverence and respect he has garnered. But beyond these three there is a considerable gap to anyone else.
 

Gurglesons

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Sids better but Yzerman and Sakic aren't far off. I'd probably put Forsberg ahead of Sakic. Geno would be in that conversation and eventually Mcdavid may overtake them all. But we got a ways to go before that happens.

IMO Mario and Gretzky are far and away the most gifted players to ever play. Orr was playing when I was a youngin, so I can't say much about him. Only by highlights and how much reverence and respect he has garnered. But beyond these three there is a considerable gap to anyone else.

How do you justify it by subscribing to the same standpoint on Ovechkin?
 

Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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How do you justify it by subscribing to the same standpoint on Ovechkin?
Because AO simply isn't as proficient as the others that I mentioned, not in GPG, not in shooting percentage and the level and quality of goal scorers as a whole isn't what it once was. What elite goal scorers besides AO year in and year out are there? Conversely, Sid would stack up. Geno is in his era, Now McDAVID, so it's not just one elite guy.

We're also comparing Sid to Sakic and Yzerman, not Lemieux or Gretzky, big difference.
 

Gurglesons

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Because AO simply isn't as proficient as the others that I mentioned, not in GPG, not in shooting percentage and the level and quality of goal scorers as a whole isn't what it once was. What elite goal scorers besides AO year in and year out are there? Conversely, Sid would stack up. Geno is in his era, Now McDAVID, so it's not just one elite guy.

We're also comparing Sid to Sakic and Yzerman, not Lemieux or Gretzky, big difference.

So if Ovechkin ties Gretzky’s record you’re going to view it as him complying?

He’s essentially had as many 50 goal seasons as Bossy and Gretzky in a much lower scoring environment.
 

Ryder71

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So if Ovechkin ties Gretzky’s record you’re going to view it as him complying?

He’s essentially had as many 50 goal seasons as Bossy and Gretzky in a much lower scoring environment.
And Bossy and Lemieux missed a ton of games and their careers were cut short. So again, context is important. If you wanna say that AO is more durable and has better longevity then yeah, I'll buy that.
 

Al Smith

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Apr 28, 2012
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I remember well when Bossy would come down the RW on our goalies, Dion in particular. I just remember thinking ''oh no that's not good''. lol

He was great player, so damn underrated.

I loved watching Bossy. He had such a quick release, and he was the perfect complement to Trots and Gillies. I think Hull actually had a quicker release, but I couldn't stand the guy, so he doesn't count.

I tend to agree with Pixies as far as OV goes, although with the stick to OV thing, I've now removed Kasper from my list of favorite Pens, at least for tonight.

Interesting that Tim Kerr (who was an freakish combination of hands and size) and LaFontaine struck more fear into you than Lafleur or Dionne. There was no more awesome sight than watching Dionne and the Kings in those nearly all purple unis.
 

Gurglesons

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I loved watching Bossy. He had such a quick release, and he was the perfect complement to Trots and Gillies. I think Hull actually had a quicker release, but I couldn't stand the guy, so he doesn't count.

I tend to agree with Pixies as far as OV goes, although with the stick to OV thing, I've now removed Kasper from my list of favorite Pens, at least for tonight.

Interesting that Tim Kerr (who was an freakish combination of hands and size) and LaFontaine struck more fear into you than Lafleur or Dionne. There was no more awesome sight than watching Dionne and the Kings in those nearly all purple unis.

@Ryder71 considering LaFontaine USA’s best forward of all time for some weird reason. No idea how you take him over Kane and Modano.
 

Al Smith

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@Ryder71 considering LaFontaine USA’s best forward of all time for some weird reason. No idea how you take him over Kane and Modano.

I don't know. I was a big LaFontaine fan, but I'm not sure I would put him above Kane or Modano, but he's pretty close to those two. Honorable mention to former Pens D-man Russ Anderson, who was one of the few (only?) Americans on the team in the 70s and was also married to Miss America.
 

Gurglesons

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I don't know. I was a big LaFontaine fan, but I'm not sure I would put him above Kane or Modano, but he's pretty close to those two. Honorable mention to former Pens D-man Russ Anderson, who was one of the few (only?) Americans on the team in the 70s and was also married to Miss America.

I don’t see how LaFontiane is close to Kane. Modano, I can get the argument, but I just value center iceman who play defensive way more than one dimensional wingers.
 

Al Smith

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I don’t see how LaFontiane is close to Kane. Modano, I can get the argument, but I just value center iceman who play defensive way more than one dimensional wingers.

Kind of splitting hairs between these three, IMO. I wouldn't put PL above those two, but I just see them pretty close.
 

Zap Rowsdower

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Sep 10, 2019
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You can't compare different eras. Gretzky played in the skinny goalie era with a wooden stick and no one was "allowed" to touch him. Oveckin plays with vastly superior stick technology but with bigger goalies. There's no way Ovechkin can do what he does with those old wooden sticks. There's no way Gretzky puts up 92 goals in this era.
 

Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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I don’t see how LaFontiane is close to Kane. Modano, I can get the argument, but I just value center iceman who play defensive way more than one dimensional wingers.
Modano would far and away be number three on that list IMO, the debate would be between Lafontaine and Kane.

I can say this with certainty, when I watch each of them play, and the stats back it up, Lafontaine was much more visible to me than Modano ever was.

If someone wants to suggest that Kane is the best American of all time there's a real legitimate argument that can be made there. I prefer Lafontaine. He was a sensational player and I think you're significantly underselling him. Just like you are Bossy. I suspect you didn't even see him play.
 

JTG

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Sep 30, 2007
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You can't compare different eras. Gretzky played in the skinny goalie era with a wooden stick and no one was "allowed" to touch him. Oveckin plays with vastly superior stick technology but with bigger goalies. There's no way Ovechkin can do what he does with those old wooden sticks. There's no way Gretzky puts up 92 goals in this era.

I mean, guys were still bombing one-timers 100 mph with wooden sticks. A guy like AO or Gretzky would do what they do in any era. They only thing that I think is a bit in play is the competition in the 80's v. now. Wayne wasn't a burner and he was woefully weak. In today's NHL he wouldn't have been able to dominate the way he did. He'd still be a 90-100 point player. I've always thought if you dropped Wayne in the NHL today, John Tavares would be a good comparison.
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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Kasparaitis was fun and all but he isn't a #Pens4LyfeYo

Dude always played hard for whatever team crest was on his crest.

Can't fault him for that.

He can give his mementos to whoever.
 

ziggyjoe212

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Oct 2, 2017
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Bossy and Mario were far more prolific snipers than AO as it pertains to GPG. Different eras to be sure. But AO didn't have the clutch and grab that Mario experienced. Top five maybe, but not the best, no.
When you adjust for era, I think AO has an argument as the best goal scorer in history. Mario, Gretzky, Bossy are also in the conversation.
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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Ovenchicken has faced far better goalies and team strategies, no doubt one of the best goal scorers

He can still go f*** off! Lol
 
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