This is EXACTLY why I didn't like Fleury going to the WJC...

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Evilo, Jan 5, 2004.

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  1. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Everyone (probably guided by the desire to win) was saying it would be great for Fleury's confidence to go to the WJC.
    I answered that I thought he had everything to lose.
    The guy was spectacular in Pittsburgh without any pressure to win.
    There the whole canadian media will jump on the guy, and if there's a time where his confidence might be shaken, it's right now.
    He had nothing to win in going to the WJC career wise, and everything to lose.
    I simply hope his poise at the NHL level won't suffer from this tourney.

    I don't like at all CP's action on this.
     
  2. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    That's ridiculous!

    It's only bad because Fleury lost the gold medal game for his country.

    The only problem this tournament has created is it has possibly exposed Fleury for being a mentally weak goalie with a lack of a winning attitude. This is a junior tournament where he hasn't been tested very much, and when he was called upon to lead his young team, he fell on his face. For the second year in a row!

    Fleury was spectacular in Pittsburgh because he wasn't called upon to actually win games. If he can't handle pressure at the junior level, then I have to really question his ability to be an elite goalie in the NHL one day.
     
  3. dunwoody_joe

    dunwoody_joe Registered User

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    Come on, guys!

    The kid is 19 and his team didn't win the gold. It doesn't expose jack.

    Let him develop and we'll check back in 2 years. He has all the makings of a superstar--this tournament not withstanding.

    Which team wouldn't take MAF into their organization today because of his loss?
     
  4. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    Did you see how he completely self destructed? Team Canada let up and didn't play too well in the third, but they didn't fall apart as badly as the score would indicate. Fleury was HORRIBLE. This is the second year in a row he couldn't preserve a lead late in the game.

    I'd still want him in my organization, but I have doubts about his mental toughness.
     
  5. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    Hate to break it to you, but Fleury's mentality has always been on of his strong points. He does not get rattled like a lot of goalies do.

    And one player is never, ever to blame for the loss of any game in any sport.
     
  6. Jeff Goldblum

    Jeff Goldblum Registered User

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    Tell me how this is the second year in a row he has been terrible?

    Was he not named the best goalie at the tourney?
     
  7. Stephen

    Stephen Registered User

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    Do you remember the gold medal game against the Russians when Canada had a 2-1 lead with 10 minutes to go or something and he allowed two quick goals to lose it for Canada? It's easy to look like a world beater when you're playing against a junior team from Germany or something, but in big games that have involved Fleury, he has come out on the losing end.

    What would give you the idea that Fleury's mental toughness is one of his stronger points? In Pittsburgh he plays in a zero pressure atmosphere, where winning is an after thought. In Cape Breton he had one winning season. I've seen goalies at the WJC with mental toughness. Guys like Theodore and Denis stood on their heads and didn't give their opponents anything in games that mattered. Fleury just totally lost it in the 3rd period. And it's not the first time that it has happened.
     
  8. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    I completely disagree with you. Sending him to this tourney was the ONLY thing CP could do, IMO.

    You actually think it is good for him to play in a no-pressure-at-all-we're-going-to-lose-anyway situation? I don't.

    Watch out M-A Fleury. He's already as good, skill-wise, as several NHL goalies. All the skills are there, the technique is versatile and ok although not polished. The atheticism is there.

    The rest is mostly about facing good competition in pressure environments. That was one and M-A was simply not up to it this time. It was a poor performance and there's no excuse for it. He failed.

    That being said, bad performances do NOT ruin players automatically. You can learn from pressure situations whether you win or lose. That's what makes certain players great and others not so great. We'll see in time if Fleury comes back but he has the talent and there was no need to pamper him. They sent him there and that's where he needed to be.

    I don't understand your point of view at all. If you want to "protect" a *veteran* junior from a junior tournament, what's it going to be if Pittsburgh goes to the Stanley Cup final one day? You're going to put Aubin in net because poor Fleury could have his confidence ruined? :p
     
  9. DJ Spinoza

    DJ Spinoza Registered User

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    He's able to shrug off goals scored against him - he's not rattled anywhere near as much as other goales.

    I know what you mean, but you're not using the right wording.

    Also, I agree with Vlad. This was a good decision, unfortunately it didn't work out as the Pens and Fleury had planned.

    Time marches on. Fleury should come back to the Penguins where he will be able to be under the attention of Molleken. I do not think this loss will rattle him that bad, he's one of the most resilient players I've seen in any sport to be honest. It's going to effect him, but these are the types of things that players with confidence (read:Fleury) will use as motivation.
     
  10. The List Of Jericho

    The List Of Jericho Drink it in man....Go Leafs Go!!

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    Fleury choked and made a bad decision it's as simple as that.Why in the blue hell would you toss the puck to your teamate knowing full well that o'sullivan was ready to intercept the puck.Shoot it they other way it's as easy as that
     
  11. ducky

    ducky Registered User

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    It is kinda funny...remember last year when Leneveau was crucified on these boards and his career was written off because of one bad game at the WJC?!

    By most accounts Leneveau is still a pretty good goalie prospect.

    I bet Fleury will be fine.
     
  12. Kev88

    Kev88 Registered User

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    What would be the name of the thread if canada had won the gold?: This is EXACTLY why I like Fleury going to the WJC... :p


    Just kidding ;) .........
     
  13. Jacob

    Jacob Registered User

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    He didn't toss it to him, he tried to toss it over him. If it was 6'2" Seabrook instead of 6'6" Coburn, Canada might have won gold.

    In the playoffs, anything can happen. That's a 7 game series. This series was decided by one game. Ultra flukey.
     
  14. Kev88

    Kev88 Registered User

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    I would say 5"8 Dawes or Meech instead of Seabrook, it safer ;) . But you are absolutely right!
     
  15. windowlicker

    windowlicker Registered User

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    What could have been different? Going with Harding & Deslauries?
     
  16. Kev88

    Kev88 Registered User

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    Maybe it would have been better? We never know!? But the name Marc-André Fleury is more intimidating than Josh Harding.
     
  17. The List Of Jericho

    The List Of Jericho Drink it in man....Go Leafs Go!!

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    If it had hit dawes it would have hit him in the face and gone to o'sullivan anyway :joker: :dunno:
     
  18. L3DZ3P

    L3DZ3P Registered User

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    Well last year team Russia was simply too good for the Canadian so it wasnt marc-andré fault,but this year Canada should have won this tournament but marc-andré struggled big time and he cost the gold.But anyway i still think the Canadian were the best team in the tournament.
     
  19. JDB3939

    JDB3939 Registered User

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    Last year he got them to the gold medal game and carried the team to it. This year he lost it for them. A + and a -. He is an even in my book for international play.
     
  20. O.T.

    O.T. Registered User

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    It's one game, calm down! He's only 19, which 19 year old does'nt need more mental toughnes. That come's with age. He will gradually become more mentally tough as he matures.

    And believe me I was down right pissed at his play this game, but he is still a top flight netminder, and once he figures out how to hold onto rebounds look out!

    And I do blame this loss squarly on his shoulders, but last year was not his fault at all. The Russians were clearly the better team.
     
  21. Don'tcry4mejanhrdina

    Don'tcry4mejanhrdina Registered User

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    Does anybody remember when Colorado was up 3-2 on Detroit in the West Finals in 2002 and the winner would pretty much go on to win the cup and Roy grabbed the puck and went to lift it in the air and it dropped out of his glove and Yzerman scored and Detroit won 2-1 to tie the series? And then Roy let in 6 goals in the next game? Those games were bigger than the WJC, and Roy made a mistake. EVEN THE BEST MAKE MISTAKES! No need to crucify Fleury when he never really played that bad. The last goal was a fluke. The first goal he could have had, but the goal Sullivon(sp) scored over his shoulder NO ONE could have stopped and the other goal where a USA player was left alone in front of the net and he got a piece of it, but flopped over top of him and in the net wasn't a bad goal, either. He'll be fine. The better team won. Simple as that (and yes, I am Canadian).
     
  22. tomerez

    tomerez Registered User

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    I've also heard the same thing

    The Canadian coach (Mario Durocher? or whatever) said he was surprised at Fleury's mental durability and toughness. After a goal, he'd curse and shrug it off, and go back at the game.

    He's a great young goalie, that IMO is being rushed into the NHL, the NHL is not a positive place for him. Goalies that play on struggling teams during their development are usually slowed down (ex. Blackburn, Dipietro). But Fleury does have all the tools to make him a great goalie, he just needs to work on them and develop them to the elite level everyone is expecting him to reach.
     
  23. CJHF13

    CJHF13 Registered User

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    God. Don't remind me of the Statue Of Liberty, as an Avs fan and as a Pens fan, you've just flashed two dark moments over me. The Satue and Marc-Andre flipping the puck into the d-man's head.

    No loss is one person's fault. What about that wicked wrister that beat Marc-Andre short side? Why wasn't a d-man on him? Center? He WAS in the high slot. As I said, no one person is at fault.
     
  24. jmelm

    jmelm Registered User Sponsor

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    I believe Fleury will be all the better because of this experience. Perhaps this was evem the best thing for him, in a way. I have no doubt that within a short while Fleury will regain his confidence and solid play. He will have an even greater will to win in the future now that he has experienced knowing what it is like to lose in a game of such important.

    Sucks for Canada now, no question. But this may end up being the best thing for Fleury. Who knows :dunno:
     
  25. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    No as I said, IMO he lost more than he gained going to that tourney.
    I said it before the tournament and it's only so true now that you see posts like Stephen's or others and articles in the media blaming the loss on one single player.
    I think a 19 year old should be protected from a loss of confidence yes.
    That's why I was saying keep him in Pittsburgh until he shows he's not good enough.
    It's obvious to me the reason Fleury failed was pressure. He faced less talented players than at the NHL level. He faced less quality shots. Yet he failed miserably. The pressure of being team Canada's goalie was probably too much, especially after last year's loss.
    I'm in full support of him of course, but I think a 19 year old with a shaky confidence is not really the best way for this kid to develop.
    I understand your point of wanting him to face pressure situation, but that might be a bit too much apparently.
     
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