"This is a franchise player" (Luke Schenn)

[bluumax]

Schenn is the perfect example of everything that was wrong with our organisation back then, I dont necessarily think he shold have been sent back to junior, but his development was definitely handled incorrectly.

I remember even at the time his skating was pointed out as an issue, but instead of working on it they set him the target of getting even bigger?

Weight is the most misleading stat in pro sports.

Imagine if we'd have given this guy to Underhill and a guy like Roberts (he was still playing back then) his first and second offseason and just said; get faster, get leaner, get stronger. Now that could've been something.

 

[93LEAFS]

He may have gotten a bit better if we were patient with him, and didn't rush him to the show. I'd add, I think how certain things were called in-regards to physicality messed with some defenders hockey-iq and natural instincts. This was most obvious with Dion, but I think it hurt some other guys as well. Prior to the big scare about concussions that blew up around 2008-2011 or so, big physical defenders used intimidation more and risked being out of position for the chance to rock guys in open ice. As we saw the crackdown, playing with that type of approach was no longer viable, you would rack up suspensions. So, this in-effect messed with some defenders natural risk and reward.

The game is probably better off due to these changes. But, the increase in concussions, partially caused by how much quicker the game got with the removal of the two-line offside pass combined with guys who grew up idolizing Stevens, required a dramatic shift on how open-ice hits were called. Dramatic rule changes will obviously, benefit some and hurt others. If someone like Zubov got to play his prime under the current rules for example, I don't think there would be a debate about him as a hall of fame (him with no two-line would have been ridiculous in his prime).

 

[nobody]

As mentioned previously by some, Luke's development was handled as poorly as can be. The team seemed clueless at the time. Everyone was so obsessed with prospects getting bigger and stronger that they lost sight of what actually got the players drafted in the first place. Instead of working on his conditioning and agility, Schenn got bigger and slower. Which was the last thing you needed in a speedier and evolving NHL. Not to mention all the extra crap that comes with being a top leafs prospect.

Watching the whole Like Schenn fiasco actually gives me such a deeper appreciation for having followed Nazem Kadri all the way through the juniors, AHL to the NHL. His development was not linear but the team really stuck it out with him and Babcock practically made his career these last few seasons by inspiring him to be an elite player in his role. Years past, Naz could do no right and was treated as a door mat.

 

[Leafsman]

Ron Wilson and Burke ruined his development

I was thinking about this the other day.

I wonder what Schenn would be like if he was drafted into this management?

 

[bluumax]

I was thinking about this the other day.

I wonder what Schenn would be like if he was drafted into this management?

Not even worth thinking about, not from the perspective as a fan sat here thinking we could have had a great player, but the fact this guy trusted the people with the development of his career, did everything they asked only to realise they didn't know what they were doing is heart braking. Its not an isolated incident, but still. shit to think about.

 

[Gallagbi]

Schenn is the perfect example of everything that was wrong with our organisation back then, I dont necessarily think he shold have been sent back to junior, but his development was definitely handled incorrectly.

I remember even at the time his skating was pointed out as an issue, but instead of working on it they set him the target of getting even bigger?

Weight is the most misleading stat in pro sports.

Imagine if we'd have given this guy to Underhill and a guy like Roberts (he was still playing back then) his first and second offseason and just said; get faster, get leaner, get stronger. Now that could've been something.

Underhill wasn't fixing Schenn, who has likely worked with skating instructors his whole life. Fitness may have helped, but really he's been bad before/after putting weight on, so it's much more than that.

Schenn was a low ceiling late born who was "NHL ready" before his draft. It made sense to push him to the NHL right away.

 

[Stephen23]

I was so excited that day and for Luke Schenn. Looking back, I think it was because after years of trading our first round pick we FINALLY kept our pick (traded up actually) and had a top 10 pick in our very dry prospect pool. We had traded our pick the year prior (I wanted Couture) and we had Tlusty 2 years prior to Schenn also, but Schenn was regarded as a top 6 prospect that draft. I remember people debating Filatov vs. Schenn quite heavily (similar to Marner vs. Hanifin, but those 2 are/were much better talents), and had we stayed at 7 I at the time wanted Hodgson. I was "sad" when we traded him for JVR because Schenn was a signal of us finally keeping our Picks and bringing in top prospects. I use "sad" because it was more to lose the person, but was ecstatic that we stole JVR from Philly. I actually LOVED the trade when it happened but it was more about that first piece of hope Schenn represented at the time. Since Schenn we drafted Kadri, Biggs/Percy, Rielly, Gauthier, Nylander, Marner, Matthews, Liljegren and Sandin so have been completely spoiled with the majority of those picks and who those prospects ended up being.

 

[hockeywiz542]

How did Luke Schenn go from can’t-miss prospect to...

The premise for this piece was “what happened to Luke Schenn” but a chart like this offers an obvious answer: nothing happened. When players who score like this in junior make it, this is what a successful career looks like.

It would be nice to be definitive on that point. Toronto has been criticized for bringing Schenn along too rapidly and perhaps there is something to that. Ron Wilson was raked over the coals for his failure to develop Schenn and others, and maybe there is something to that, too. But we don’t have access to some alternate universe where we can see what would have happened under a different coach or different development plan, so it’s hard to make ironclad statements.

The evidence here is suggestive and points to problems not so much in development as in drafting. Schenn was a consensus choice at the spot where Toronto took him, so this isn’t so much a “the Leafs don’t draft well” conclusion as it is an “NHL scouts, in general, overvalued this player.”

We can go further and say that NHL teams have overvalued this type of player. Obviously these players have some value: Schenn played more than 700 games and most of his peers on the list above are still playing in the league. Nine of these 12 made the majors, which is something.

Where the valuation went wrong was in assuming that a player with Schenn’s limited offensive skillset could be a franchise cornerstone in the NHL’s current era. It’s the same mistake Ottawa would make a year later with Cowen, and the same mistake that Colorado would make with Siemens two years after that.

Fortunately for Toronto, Philadelphia duplicated the mistake when they accepted Schenn as the trade return on James van Riemsdyk in 2012.

When a forward is a big scorer at 19, NHL stardom is basically assured. The same is not true for NHL defencemen logging heavy minutes at 19, which perhaps also speaks to the evolving game and the difficulty in assessing defence.

There is also the matter of performance. Of Toronto’s eight regular defencemen in 2008-09, Schenn ranked seventh by on-ice shot share, ahead of only Jonas Frogren. He was sixth by total on-ice goal differential.

A year later, the Leafs’ coaches would slash his ice time down to a more realistic 16:53 per game, and in a third-pairing role, Schenn’s results improved markedly. Both shot share and goal differential moving north of 50 percent. Those are good numbers in a depth role at age 20 — numbers in line with an eventual 700-odd game NHL career.

Which, it should be added, is quite an achievement, and would be widely recognized as such if Schenn hadn’t been so over-hyped as a 17-, 18-, and 19-year-old.

 

[Loosie]

He was rushed, plain and simple.

 

[mashedpotato]

It's fine.

We drafted Luke(5) instead of some scrub in Erik Karlsson(15).

It's fine. The therapy has helped and I'm over it.

It's fine.

 

[francis246]

Leafs Management have to shoulder the blame for Schenn not panning out. They really rushed him and Burke focused too much on building muscle as opposed to developing his skating and first pass skills.

That being said Schenn has played a lot of games in the NHL. Sad to see the potential not get there

 

[Guided by Veseys]

It’s funny how in the long run in didn’t even matter much. We traded him for an all star level player, that player came and did his thing and left with no return and here we are today. Wonder where the team would be today had we kept Schenn...

 

[member 262271]

Man - really takes you back. My brother still has his Schenn jersey for some reason.

 

[member 157595]

Schenn has managed to play the third most games in that draft, 700 +. Pretty funny to look back on how he was a "bright spot" for us his rookie season. Had a sophomore Anton Stralman in the lineup too but thankfully Burke was there to **** that one up.

Many thanks for unleashing that plague back onto my brain.

 

[Damisoph]

Full disclosure, still have a jersey with his name on it. I wore it the night we got embarrassed vs. Florida and the "fire Wilson" chants started.

Good times.

 

[Nithoniniel]

when they should have focused on him becoming a bit more lean and working on his scouting.

I mean, I'm all for transitioning players into other positions in the organization, but it's a bit early to worry about Schenn's scouting ability at 19.

 

[Cor]

I mean, I'm all for transitioning players into other positions in the organization, but it's a bit early to worry about Schenn's scouting ability at 19.

Always think long-term

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I didn't want Schenn, I actually hoped the Leafs drafted Filatov, but I understood why they made the pick. And in the end I did think it was a good pick and was going to usher in a new era. Thought he was going to be the next captain. He had a decent rookie year. Defensive, physical type.

But as time went on, his speed was massively exposed, and he had a shot like a wimp for a kid that size. It was downhill from there and he never recovered. The fact how he still managed to play in the league as of last year baffled me.

Thank goodness the Leafs stole JvR from Philly for him to salvage it all.

 

[Buds17]

There are always going to be certain expectations of a top five draft pick. Nonetheless, he's played in a fairly decent amount of games and was parlayed into a good trade for a former 2nd overall pick in JVR.

 

[Boutette]

So schenn into JVR and then JVR into.....???

Tavares.

 

[Boutette]

nothing. no picks, no prospects, nothing.

Except we did get something that fit quite well in the cap space he, Bozak, Komarov and Martin vacated. Guess who?

 

[DarkKnight]

We ruined him. He was never going to be a star, but we rushed him.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Except we did get something that fit quite well in the cap space he, Bozak, Komarov and Martin vacated. Guess who?

would have been nice to have those picks/prospects too though

 

[member 157595]

I mean, I'm all for transitioning players into other positions in the organization, but it's a bit early to worry about Schenn's scouting ability at 19.

EDIT: ignore, read the wrong post

 

[HamiltonNHL]

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