This Canuck version is boring as hell

JoeCool16

Registered User
Sep 9, 2011
2,516
275
Vancouver
A child who feels he is entitled to every demand even though his parents already give them so much more than they need is spoiled regardless of whether or not there are other kids who receive better, more expensive things.

You're spoiled as long as you have a "Why shouldn't I have the best??" attitude, IMO.

Money in exchange for hockey is the only transaction you're owed-- If you don't receive it to a degree that you're satisfied, plenty of others are and are willing to take your spot in the arena.

I think that a lot of people are watching at home and being equally as bored, though. It's a boring team, plain and simple, and there's two sides to it.

1)NHL Hockey is entertainment first and foremost and teams should be trying to entertain their fans, first and foremost. Some do it by winning but after seeing our team win a couple President's Trophies and make a cup run, that's not new or fresh anymore. If they can't do those things with flair and excitement, then the only way they can top rather recent accomplishments is to win the cup.

2)Like any other entertainment, if you don't like it, do something else. If you don't like a restaurant, don't go back. If a TV show stops being good, stop watching it. Still need your hockey fix? TSN and CBC play lots of out of market games.

I understand the frustration people have with this boring hockey (and with some players like Bieksa even pointing it out unapologetically), but it's an entertainment product. Don't like it, don't watch it. A few recent articles seem to be suggesting that's what some Vancouverites are already trending towards this season.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,875
3,570
Vancouver, BC
I think that a lot of people are watching at home and being equally as bored, though. It's a boring team, plain and simple, and there's two sides to it.

1)NHL Hockey is entertainment first and foremost and teams should be trying to entertain their fans, first and foremost. Some do it by winning but after seeing our team win a couple President's Trophies and make a cup run, that's not new or fresh anymore. If they can't do those things with flair and excitement, then the only way they can top rather recent accomplishments is to win the cup.

2)Like any other entertainment, if you don't like it, do something else. If you don't like a restaurant, don't go back. If a TV show stops being good, stop watching it. Still need your hockey fix? TSN and CBC play lots of out of market games.

I understand the frustration people have with this boring hockey (and with some players like Bieksa even pointing it out unapologetically), but it's an entertainment product. Don't like it, don't watch it. A few recent articles seem to be suggesting that's what some Vancouverites are already trending towards this season.
I disagree. Would you also say that the Olympics are about entertainment first and foremost (which it is), and therefore, athletes have an obligation to go out of their way to entertain you first and foremost? No. Entertainment is an expected byproduct of competition, but that entertainment is only credible when the integrity of the product is maintained (putting success ahead of putting on a show). Such is what seperates all professional sports from the WWE.

Regardless, fans aren't owed entertainment, they seek it and can look elsewhere if they don't find it, like you said.
 
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Dado

Guest
Would you also say that the Olympics are about entertainment first and foremost (which it is), and therefore, athletes have an obligation to go out of their way to entertain you first and foremost?

Yep.

Absolutely - yep.

Sports is entertainment. If I'm paying for entertainment and don't get it, I'm going to stop paying for it. If they want me to keep supporting them, then they absolutely have an obligation to entertain me.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
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Vancouver, BC
How good your team is isn't what dictates how spoiled you are, how ungrateful and unsatisfied you are does. I wouldn't call Red Wings fans spoiled as a whole.
Yep.

Absolutely - yep.

If I'm paying for entertainment and don't get it, I'm going to stop paying for it. If they want me to keep supporting them, then they absolutely have an obligation to entertain me.
The organization has an obligation to their business to put out a product that makes them money, but the coaches/athletes don't have an obligation to you to provide you with entertainment to the degree that you expect. They have an obligation to fulfill their contracts and to play/coach hockey to the best of their ability.

The organization is still doing well financially, so what you as an individual demand doesn't matter. If you don't find it entertaining enough to keep watching, enough people are. It's their business to try and entertain you, and their business is doing fine-- it's not their duty by any stretch. You aren't owed it, you're simply in a position where you could possibly receive it.
 

JoeCool16

Registered User
Sep 9, 2011
2,516
275
Vancouver
Entertainment is an expected byproduct of competition, but that entertainment is only credible when the integrity of the product is maintained (putting success ahead of putting on a show). Such is what seperates all professional sports from the WWE.
That's like saying that people buying clothes is an expected byproduct of making the clothes. The reason they're out there is to entertain, which means competition, yes... but their coaches are putting them out there to entertain and the owners bought the team and lease the arenas to entertain. Also, what separates the WWE from professional sports is that the WWE is that the results are fixed, not that the wrestlers are trying to entertain rather than win!
 

Dado

Guest
The organization is still doing well financially, so what you as an individual demand doesn't matter.

If what you are trying to say is that, right now, sufficient numbers of people are being sufficiently entertained, as evidenced by the team doing well financially, that's probably correct.

Doesn't change the fact that lots of folks are starting to lose interest from lack of entertaining product. Whether there are sufficient numbers of those folks to impact the team's bottom line in the near future is something we'll just have to wait and see.

Fans are "owed" entertainment to the exact same extent teams are "owed" fans' money and/or loyalty.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,875
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Vancouver, BC
That's like saying that people buying clothes is an expected byproduct of making the clothes. The reason they're out there is to entertain, which means competition, yes... but their coaches are putting them out there to entertain and the owners bought the team and lease the arenas to entertain. Also, what separates the WWE from professional sports is that the WWE is that the results are fixed, not that the wrestlers are trying to entertain rather than win!
I'll concede to that, but I do not believe that fans are owed a specific level of satisfactory entertainment simply because it's in an organization's best interests to give it to them.
 
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D0ctorCool

Registered User
Dec 3, 2008
4,633
519
Vancouver
'Nuff said.

iI1VBTf.jpg
 

Fat Tony

Fire Benning
Nov 28, 2011
3,012
0
How good your team is isn't what dictates how spoiled you are, how ungrateful and unsatisfied you are does.

No, but what are we being spoiled by. The success or the entertainment value?

I wouldn't call Red Wings fans spoiled as a whole.

I wouldn't call Canucks fan spoiled as a whole either. There's a study that suggests that demand for Red Wings tickets negatively correlates with the success of the Pistons and that relationship is stronger than other factors, such as the economy.
 

CherryToke

Registered User
Oct 18, 2008
26,735
8,217
Coquitlam
A child who feels he is entitled to every demand even though his parents already give them so much more than they need (winning) is spoiled regardless of whether or not there are other kids who receive better, more expensive things. Hell, even a child who doesn't receive it, but believes that they're entitled to it is spoiled.

You're spoiled as long as you have a "Why shouldn't I have the best??" attitude, IMO.

Money in exchange for hockey is the only transaction you're owed-- If you don't receive it to a degree that you're satisfied, plenty of others are and are willing to take your spot in the arena. Nobody owes you crap as a fan, IMO, and this sense of entitlement is everything that's wrong and putrid about listening to hockey fans complain.

We all hope for the best, but that's about as far as it goes. As long as the team is just successful enough to make money, what you think beyond that doesn't actually matter to the equation. Personally, I'm glad it makes these type of fans frustrated.

so in other words. you are happy with mediocrity. to each is own I suppose.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
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Vancouver, BC
so in other words. you are happy with mediocrity. to each is own I suppose.
I'm not happy with the situation at all, but contrary to what fans around here would have you believe, how angry and idiotically outraged they are about the team doesn't actually make them do any better-- it just makes hockey fans a particularly insufferable breed during bad times. You throwing a hissy fit over poor play doesn't make everyone go "Thank god for PoolChamp pushing the team and making sure they stay on top of their game!" It doesn't matter.

I hope the team does as well as possible and I get disappointed when they don't-- However, I don't expect it, complain/act like they've wronged me when they underperform, or act like I'm entitled to something good simply by virtue of being a fan who supports the team.

I think it'd be pompous of me to act like me/my thoughts are an important variable in all of this-- If the team is doing great, I appreciate and love it, if there's an absence of it or it doesn't turn out like I hope, that's just tough luck for me. I understand it in a venting frustration level, but the minute that crosses over into outrage and entitlement, our fans are a complete gong-show, IMO.
No, but what are we being spoiled by. The success or the entertainment value?
Short term? Success. I think being up in arms about poor entertainment value when a team is decimated by injuries and stringing together what little they have to win 6 in a row anyways is pretty spoiled behavior.

I think it's ridiculous to feel entitled to a team that looks poised to compete for a cup rather than the one we have.
 
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CherryToke

Registered User
Oct 18, 2008
26,735
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Coquitlam
Contrary to what fans around here would have you believe, how angry they are about the team doesn't actually make them do any better-- it just makes hockey fans a particularly insufferable breed during bad times. I hope the team does as well as possible and I get disappointed when they don't-- However, I don't expect it, complain/act like they've wronged me when they underperform, or act like I'm entitled to something good simply by virtue of being a.


instead you come on hear an complain about fans that complain. I would say that is much worse than complainng about the on ice product itself.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,875
3,570
Vancouver, BC
instead you come on hear an complain about fans that complain. I would say that is much worse than complainng about the on ice product itself.
For the record, I don't have a problem with fans who think the team sucks, which is why I don't have a problem with me thinking that the fans I'm talking about suck. There's no double standard there.

I have a problem with fans who think the team owes them and that they're entitled to the team doing well. I don't think I'm entitled to a better fan experience-- I just think people who act that way are a bunch of babies. There's no entitlement or personal involvement in thinking that. So we're talking about two completely different things here, and I don't think I'm guilty of the part of it that bothered me.

It's when fans get into the "What is this ****?? THIS is what I'm spending my precious time on? How dare they! We deserve better as fans!" tirades that are insufferable.
 
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LickTheEnvelope

Time to Retool... again...
Dec 16, 2008
37,985
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Vancouver
I am quit shocked the Nucks managed to go from one of the best special teams... teams in the league (actually the best 2 years ago) to essentially the worst with almost the same crew.

I think I would have to attribute that to coaching...
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,875
3,570
Vancouver, BC
I am quit shocked the Nucks managed to go from one of the best special teams... teams in the league (actually the best 2 years ago) to essentially the worst with almost the same crew.

I think I would have to attribute that to coaching...
I would only agree if we're talking about penalty killing. Our powerplay is not very close to similar personnel to when we were successful.

Historically, Kesler has always been the biggest key to our powerplay-- We didn't become great on the PP until he was put on it, and before that, his second unit with lesser players was more effective on the PP.

I don't think I even need to mention how big of a key Salo was on the PP.

I would not blame that on coaching.
 

604

Registered User
Nov 1, 2011
7,279
1,486
I am quit shocked the Nucks managed to go from one of the best special teams... teams in the league (actually the best 2 years ago) to essentially the worst with almost the same crew.

I think I would have to attribute that to coaching...

It's pretty rough to see that the Sedins aren't good when they setup on the left but can't effectively use our point men with big shots (all LHD) when they setup on the right.

A RHD with a big shot who can PK would be a great addition - I don't think we need a quarterback, the Sedins already do that but they really need to be on the right half boards to be effective.
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,875
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Vancouver, BC
It's pretty rough to see that the Sedins aren't good when they setup on the left but can't effectively use our point men with big shots (all LHD) when they setup on the right.

A RHD with a big shot who can PK would be a great addition.
Even if he's not great, I'm almost tempted to use Bieksa as the focal point of the 1st unit simply for that reason alone.

I think

Kesler - Sedin - Sedin
Edler - Bieksa

would give the Sedins far more options than what they have now. Another big problem is that Garrison actually misses the net more than Edler does, which is pretty shocking.

Aesthetically, it looks like it's just nerves/impatience on his part, but it looks like that over and over again.
 

LickTheEnvelope

Time to Retool... again...
Dec 16, 2008
37,985
5,349
Vancouver
I would only agree if we're talking about penalty killing. Our powerplay is not very close to similar personnel to when we were successful.

Historically, Kesler has always been the biggest key to our powerplay-- We didn't become great on the PP until he was put on it, and before that, his second unit with lesser players was more effective on the PP.

I don't think I even need to mention how big of a key Salo was on the PP.

I would not blame that on coaching.

Except in 09/10 when Kesler was on the 2nd PP the whole year the team still had a top 6 NHL powerplay.

Even in 2008/2009 before anyone's breakout seasons when it was basically just the Sedins (Salo missed a quarter of the season and there was no Ehrhoff...) the Nucks STILL had a PP tied for 15th in the league.

This team today is far far deeper than the 2008/09 team. Hell that team had Wellwood on the PP...
 

leftwinglockdown

Dude Guy
Apr 29, 2011
800
3
Canada
We're still 19-10-6.

I'd rather that than a team like the Oilers that are exciting to watch, but 13-16-3.

That Oiler team just ran us over like we didn't even exist.

Granted, it's just 1 game and is not indicative of much but I think we can say that they're trending up with a visually exciting brand of hockey and we're barely scraping by offensively while also slipping from our perch on the NW.
 

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